My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

[Pages]

I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Pages, you definitely have a way of getting your point across without being offensive.
I read this last night, but I had had a few glasses of wine & it wasnt the time to reply.
I went to bed thinking about everything you said. I really took it on board, because I feel you are a very wise woman & have had the experience in dealing with a situation similar to mine.
I am not usually so hasty in making decisions about things like this, & I must admit that I do feel different on a day to day basis about it too. I may have only wrote all my feelings down on paper & never even posted it, as I can be a bit of a yellow belly sometimes.
But i truely meant what I said about how I would feel if I did tell him how I feel & I understand there will be repercussions. But I have not spoken to my dad since April anyway & I it has not bothered me in the slightest. I know that might appear naive but you really cannot miss what you have never had.
I think I have come to the point in my life where I want all this Sh*t in my past to just dissappear, but I know it isnt going to happen over night, nor will it make me feel better over night either.

When I read your post last night I felt like a few truths had slapped me in the face & sometimes thats the hardest thing to deal with. The fact of how I feel & why? I think thats why I am a little put off to going to see a councellor, its facing up to alot of my demons & I know that is going to be really hard. But I am willing to do it, not just for me but for my whole immediate family.
In the mean time I am not going to rush saying anything to my dad. I will just stay not talking to him! OH GOD pages, no my dad wasnt the one to abuse me, I never mentioned who did so you havnt missed it, the thread does move quick so I fully understand that.

All my adult life I have accepted that my dad is an odd bodd, but I think when he still carries on being that way & still doesn't bother about me or my kids either, the hurt just carries on. Neither me, my DH or my kids will loose out on anything if he isnt in our lives.
I actualy feel more cold towards dad rather than anger, & when I said I wanted to lash the hurt, I meant that by letting the truth out as my dad is oblivious to how I feel or that he his partly to blame. I think its just easier for me to say it to my dad rather than my mum.

That is where the book & the councelling with be needed when I finally face up to that.
But if truth were to be known, I really dont want my mum out of my life, as she has always been in my life. i just want to learn how to deal with what she has put me through & deal with it in an adult way.

Well I really didnt want to ramble on here today, so Im going to leave it here for now as I've got so much to do today.
Pages, I want to thankyou for your honesty, you truely are an amazing person & I admire how you have come through this & stayed sane.
So I'm going to leave this thread for a few days or so & let someone else get there two pence worth in. But I will lurk & learn as I read through.

See you soon xxx

Thank you for all your lovely comments Musiclover, they were well timed to make me feel better as I had a bit of a hard day at work!

And I am glad if anything I said has helped. I must fly, and I too am going to let others get a word in, but totally understand your feelings about your dad, don't think you are being naive at all. I was actually wondering today (yet again) why I don't actually miss my mum or the siblings that have gone over to her "camp" - I really really appear to be happier without them in my life which is something I wasn't expecting.

Think I'll drop back in again! Been reading but no time to reply!

Sakura: Yes, gorgeous, esp when you dress them up like dolls ;) my dd is 8 months and she amazes me more every month!

Its hard to repeat what the councellor said, cause I don't have the right language! Comes out a bit different when I say things. Anyway, acknowledge any feelings of hers you may hurt over the years, ie my mother would laugh or tell me not to be silly. Instead we listen, acknowledge 'i understand why you would feel sad/angry at what I did' then encourage them to get angry at you if that is what they are feeling and then to apologise. Basically I think its instinctive, treat our dd as we wanted to be treated. Think back to your childhood and how you would have liked your mother to have treated you. My councellor is a good example at how he can take any critisisem, he takes it on the chin and does the above and its great. I'm gradually losing my reluctance/fear of speaking my feelings honestly. Instead of getting emotional blackmail, anger, laughter I just get acceptance instead. Hard to put across I'm afraid.

Musiclover: I pay £34 a 50 min session. Not referred by GP. I do know someone who did get referred, only 1 year of therpy. I've had over 2 years...and as for psychotherpy, don't fear it, its all about being 'okay'. You won't be hung out to dry, its aimed to get that child inside you out then heal from inside out so to speak. Your not going to be beaten round the head with faults. I'm sure you can do that yourself without paying someone to do it! I know I can and probably all of us on here. Therpy cannot help if its all about beating you up, its about changing behaviours and reactions to things.

Got to go, lost for words now!

hugs xxxx

Well she could not resist the temptation. Despite my letter stating 'No matter how hard it is please do not contact me by letter, email, text, phone etc'. Foolishly thought I had covered all options. She sent a letter after this (9 pages of excuses) and one memorable sentence was 'I have no intention of not abiding by your rules'. I had not set any rules I had made a request...anyway, lets not get into the small print. She sent a card, recieved this lunchtime. Someone else had written the envelope so I would open it (strangely I had a premonition that it was her) either that or she had written it in a bad hand deliberately. Disturbingly she has no friends, in which case how would you go about asking an aquaintence to write an envelope for you??? Sorry I divert from the point again. The card had the virgin mary on, 'blessings at xmas, peace, love etc etc etc' I had cold chill knowing then it was from her, opened it up, more religious spiel then 'mum xxx' and some latin which I choose not to translate. Not that she's a person who knows latin...v strange. Notice that she's turned religious, again. As she does everytime something goes wrong. Thought you were meant to have constant faith not just when the wind blows the wrong way. Happened last time when dad lost job, they both turned to god, neither bothered to look at themselves and apply themselves to getting a job, dad stuck to training and mum just spent what money he had on ornaments and other pointless things.

Anyway...I'm angry, don't know why, I was expecting this but I still am. Feel an idiot for being taken in by the fake handwriting. Wish she would p*ss off and leave us alone.

Next prediction. The card was addressed to myself and dh. No doubt trying to win him over to her side, bit pathetic as she knows he's an agnostic (sp?). She will send a card and present to dd.

End of prediction.

The frustrating thing is she knows I hate religious cards. I hate lovey dovey cards. I hate barry manilow too, which she quoted in her war and peace letter to me. She knows I despise all that. Yet she uses it to try to win me round. Nothing could repel me more. (By the way to barry manilow fans and lovey dovey and religious card fans, I hate them cause she likes them, nothing more personal).

So do I feel any overwhelming urge to contact her? Yes to go to her house and smash every bit of china I see (and there's alot) in front of her, frighten the life out of her and then scream 'now f*ck off!!'. Not that I will do that but it would be good to vent some anger.

At them same time I feel a constriction of my airways, reminds me of times that my sister or mother would go in my room, again, to nosy through my belongings, I had no privacy. I would get so angry I would go to their room and throw things about (never daring to break anything tho) and I would feel the same choking anger. Looking back it was verging on a panic attack. The sheer anger and hurt and frustration would just throttle me. And there was not a thing I could do or a person to appeal to for justice. My mother was the person to appeal too and she was the person looking at my belongings.

I divert again. . Well she's the one losing out. No dd no dgd no SIL this Christmas. You reap what you sow.

Feel a bit better now. Still getting urge to smash things tho. Must find a new hobby, like boxing.

Ally, you are so funny. You write like Bridget Jones without the loving parents and sunny, privileged, happy upbringing (what does she know about dysfunction...?)

What you said about having no-one to appeal to really struck a chord with me. That is exactly how I felt. It's like all this crap is going on but there is no-one to turn to because the person you are meant to turn to is the one doing it. My mum was not overtly cruel like yours but she always turned her back on me when I needed her. I didn't even display the healthy anger like you, I just gave up. Although I think I knew in my heart that parents were meant to be there for you and that I was being let down badly. I was bullied at school quite badly for a while and I remember going home and being bullied by my brother and then picked on by my stepdad and feeling like throwing myself under a bus because there was just nowhere to turn, no sanctuary anywhere. I didn't have the guts to run away but that's what I wanted to do.

Your mum sounds like a nutcase Ally. And a complete control freak - she has no intention of abiding by your rules? WTF???!!!! She has absolutely no respect for anything you think or feel does she? She really does invade your personal space beyond anything that it is normal by a nutter's standards.

Don't know what my mum is up to but she has now sent me a card with just "Mum x" in it. That is two weeks after saying the situation had gone beyond redemption and disowning me.

Btw you spelt agnostic correctly.

Pages xx

Thanks Ally,
I like the way you write too. I laughed at war and peace letter - I take it that was a huge long letter...
My mum also went through religious phases, dragging us all off to church self righteously on random Sunday mornings. Very weird come to think about it now.
I wanted to mention about your mum writing that you had written rules when you hadnt. My mum (after the calling Dh at work incident which made me cut her out of my life), sent me a "final" letter, in which she wrote that all she asks for is that I send her a photo of her grandchild every three months or so. <span class="italic">Stupid</span> <span class="italic">bitch</span>, I thought (sorry, Im angry again now). Because she would so love to believe and tell everyone that she is so hard done to, and that her daughter only sends her a photo of her grandaughter blah blah blah. When really, if she would just stop being such a bitch to me and my family, she could see dd whenever she wanted! If I really did send her that photo, it would be playing into her little fantasy world that doesnt exist. I want to help my mum by bringing her sharply in touch with reality. In this reality, if you hurt someone, there <span class="italic">will</span> be repercussions. you cant make up a fantasy world where you are the victim anc expect evryone to keep playing along with it indefinitely.

Ally, your post about your mother's card saying she had no intention of "living by your rules" gave me a wry smile. She is furious that you have found your feet emotionally and that she can't push you around any more. People like this only feel secure in a realtionship if the other person is firmly hooked in and can't get away, so they set up dependencies and obligations - financial ones, emotional-blackmail ones, or, like my mother, formalizing everything into such a locked routine (we saw each other twice a week, at the same time, without fail, there had to be a really good reason to cancel).

Here's a small excerpt from one of the emails my mother sent me when I stood up to her by insisting (after weeks of saying it over and over again, and her accepting it) that things would need to be more flexible, ie not a rigid "twice a week" arrangement once ds1 started preschool. She threw her toys out of the pram and for once I didn't give in. (the bits in brackets are me explaining)

"one day you and XX (brother) and XX (sister) will get together and you will bond by
judging me have some mercy i do not want to see anyone there is no trust
how can a loving god make people who are so horrible the new world order is
unstoppable the weak will go under the ruthless will prosper i am not
saying more than is reported on every day the love of the boys (grandchildren) was my last
chance but it wasnt something you could cope with"

That's a very small extract from the barrage of emails she bombarded me with, ranging from some really venomous nasty stuff to one which read as a thinkly veiled suicide note, before she resorted to making volleys of phone calls in the small hours and following dh and I and the children in the car. She pulled everything out of that hat that she could think of - accused us of everything under the sun from the weird to the plain insulting, with intermittent burst of pathetic sobbing/cold rage/no-nonsense style "Right, this is your mother here. I'm not going to put up with this. Bring the boys over tomorrow please". It came down to brass tacks in one of the later messages "well, perhaps I didn't like the idea of having to phone up and beg to see my grandchildren at your convenience" - ie, the idea of me/dh having any sovereignty over our own time was more than she could stand.

I can't believe it's almost a year since I last saw her, it feels like a few weeks.

oh..my..god, Greensleeves.　Reading your post sent a chill down my spine, because Ive been starting to think that Ive been doing so well, and have come so far, but I know that if my mum carried on with this shit (which she may well do in the future), its still going to keep being very very scary.
Your post reminded me again of my mum`s potential.

Yes, we have absolutely made the right decision to keep them away from us. Its disgusting that your mum wrote that you canT handle her seeing her grandkids. You are very right not to let her see them, but you are not doing it for the reasons she believes. I was particularly scared at the right this is your motherline, because there is something about that which somehow works in making you believe that you are a terrified child again (as Pages said) instead of the strong surviving woman that you are. I almost find that scarier than thewo is me` threats.

Reading through your post again makes me realise something. As much as I love DH, I do wonder how much the fact that he was foreign was part of the attraction. It was his idea to get married and for me to move here, and I couldnt have done it if I had a normal mum. But I cant help wondering if it has been just an easy way for me to escape my mother. I KNOW she canT just turn up on the doorstep here. Although when she called DH at work, she did threaten that she would visit here at least once a year, because of grandparents rights. That shook me up, until I rationalised that shes cant reach my flat without my help (which she wont get, obviously). I canT imagine how I would be dealing with her, if she knew where I lived. I think Id probably have to move or something.

Sakura, this thread and reading all of your experiences has really given me the boost I needed in terms of believing I have done the right thing and resolving not to go backwards in the future (God forbid). Thinking now about the emails/phone calls it's awesome what a varied and powerful arsenal of weapons she had against me. I hope you are drawing some strength from all this too. When I find myself wavering with guilt or worrying about her, all I have to do is imagine waking up tomorrow and being back in "the routine", and it makes me feel so sick with dread I know I could never go back. After all the things that she has said and written now, I could never look her in the eyes again and be friendly. Whatever relationship we had, it's broken and there's no fixing it.

When I was in the middle of all this, about 8 months ago when it was at its worst and the police were involved, I remember thinking that it reminded me of those old stories about wizard duels - she would appear in a particular form (piteous child/cold authoritarian/screaming madwoman/calm and patronizing) and then, when I faced it down or stood up to it, she would retreat snarling, recoup herself and then return in an entirely different guise. Perhaps I've actually seen all of her different faces now, and she will have to leave me alone? I hope so.

I know what you mean though Sakura, about marrying someone who represented a fresh start and the comfort of putting physical distance between you and her. I still feel very vulnerable here, it is one of the main reasons we involved the police. My stepfather is an ex-prison officer and he fears the law, so it was the only way to subdue him into not driving her here any more. I'm not sure she could get here on her own. I still lock the doors from the inside when I'm in though, and I still feel wary when I hear cars pulling up.

Yes, when I go back for christmas, Ill be staying at my grandmothers (her mum) for two nights, and visiting my brothers at my dads (Im very pleased with the conversation I had with him earlier down the thread). But I feel sick at the thought that there is a small chance she might turn up there on christmas day and wreak havoc. If theres one thing she loves its a drama and a crisis, so christmas day would be the perfect stage. Ill make sure dd is always close to me in case I see her car pull up, and Ill make sure dh has the car keys in his pocket at all times. I know it sounds childish, but the only way I want to deal with it now is to avoid all confrontaion. At the very least it will bewilder my poor DD. So I plan to leg it out the back door if I hear or see her coming. Fight or flight, isnt it. Ive done enough fighting with her in my time. Im only visiting the UK for a very short time (because of her, really). Just enough to show the baby to all the important people (brothers etc), then well finish off the holiday down in London with just our little family. Youre right that this thread is very helpful in putting thoughts in order.

I had to laugh at your wizard analogy. You have seen almost everything that she can throw at you, that has to be some sort of mental relief for you. Youve seen it all, and youve survived. All she can do now is rinse and repeat. I mean, you may get more of the same, but youve already dealt with it in its different forms once, so you know you can do it again. I didnt realise your realisation was 8 months ago. Mine was about a year and a half ago. Its kept coming back again and again over this year and a half, but god, I have come a long long way. Even when I think of myself at the 8 month point, where you are now, I know I`ve got better.
Yesterday, I went round to my MIL for a visit with the baby. I have been very untrusting of her, and put all the barriers up. She is an overbearing and controlling lady, but her good points really do outweigh the bad. I have not been very tolerant of her at all, and I realised that a lot of my bad feelings have come from inside me, and not because of her. So I visited her, and it went very well. She adores my DD, and we had lunch. That evening she popped over, and quickly made us lobster (!!!) in the kitchen- it took about 10 minutes then she left again, quite unobtrusively. It is getting better, and I am starting to feel more in control, and competent in my life. This is a big step up from a few months ago, so I have faith that it will continue to get better.

We have an "action plan" for shielding the children from any scene in case she decides to turn up on Christmas Day too. I don't think she will, I would think by now she knows there is no point, and she will probably have convinced herself that I am evil incarnate by now anyway - but there's a tiny bit of me that still thinks she won't be able to resist one last stab at a confrontation. She was furious at being denied her right to turn up here and have a big emotional showdown and spit in my face. It took the police several visits and a warning letter from the CPS to convince her that she did not in fact have the right to "keep turning up at your house until you face me" as she put it in one of her more chilling messages.

I did see the post about your conversation with your dad, I am so pleased for you that he has found it within himself to put the future and his relationship with you above clinging to all the old family folklore about the past. I do hope she doesn't do anything to ruin your Christmas.

That is encouraging Sakura, I'm glad you are starting to feel stronger and better about the future - I am starting to find my feet too, and even make some friends. My "realisation", the moment when whatever it was inside me went "ping", was actually last January . It took us several months to get her to stop actively harassing us - the last contact we had with her was about 8 months ago, I think. It still feels very recent.

Thank Pages

She wasn't overtly cruel. Everything was done under a guise of 'teasing' and then being told 'I do love you'. It was all done in a 'loving' way which made it very poisonous. Cause then you get confused as to what love is. I got bullied at school by exclusion, no one wanted anything to do with me cause I was new and because I was 'posh'. My parents put no thought about which school they put me in when we moved house so I went from a very well to do school to one where everyone swore and I had no idea what they were saying, had to ask!! Big contrast to what I had been used to.

I identify with the running away, I jibbed too, nowhere and no one to go to, so what would we have chosen, the streets? I thought myself a coward for staying. And I used to spend night after night, winter and summer with my window open an hour or two after bedtime just wishing I had the guts to throw myself out, but knowing that I would do it wrong and just break a leg or something. The thought of my mother patronising me 'what did you do that for you silly girl' with a pet lip out, talking to me as if I was still a few months old, not nearly 10 was too much, or my sister being cutting and sarcastic and humiliating me for failing...nar, couldn't do it. Then in my late teens I realised it took more courage to live than to die. Still wanted to tho!

Anyway...to you all, can you just reread that sentence again 'I have no intention of NOT abiding by your rules'. I think she just wrote that badly. I thought it meant she WOULD abide by my 'rules'. Now i'm confused

I've sensed my mother was a nutter for years, I think she will end up being locked up tbh. All relatives will blame me no doubt but to keep her on an even keel I should continue to put up with her hypocrasy (sp) and sickening cards and words from her when she was such an unjust and nasty mother to me? Best thing she came out with when I announced i was pg was 'I expect to see my gc AT LEAST twice a week'. She lives 10 miles away or two bus journeys, she does not drive my dad does and I do. She also told my dad who told me that she was not going on holidays this year as she would be needed to look after the baby. WTF???!!! This is after I had agreed with her that I see her once every 3 weeks, this was a week before I told her I was pg. She tried to emotionally blackmail me by telling me that she was having to tell white lies to people to pretend she saw me more often...

gotta go, reply sakura and greenie laters!

OMG
This thread has wizzed by.

What bizzare reading [sock]Greenie,Sacura!
My mother is sane compared to yours!!!

Ally, Pages, can relate to the wanting to throw yourself under a bus/out of the window. As much as I think I am turning into my mother I just cannot imagine making my children feel that way as they would want to do anything like that! It's heartbreaking to read isn't it?

Have you thought about writing a book Ally?
You simply know how to put things into words.
Glad you are now learning how to express your feelings honestly, that is such a hurdle. Well Done!

Must dash, have got loads to do. Will keep peeping in though to keep up, as its moving fast again.

Take Care All xxx

Sakura: Thanks! It was 9 pages of A4, size 12 font, standard page setup (I've worked in an office ;)) 3 pages on what a GREAT childhood I had, 3 pages of what a CRAP childhood she had and 3 pages on how GREAT grandparents are. Anyway the religious theme is the least of it, she contacted a spriritualist and apparently the spirits of my grandparents are on her side too. Wow. I'm scared. If the living can't persuade me perhaps the dead can? No harm in trying I suppose. Lucky for me at the time my dh kept from me that she had said that when she came to 'visit' just 2 days after dd born. Then I would have freaked the way I felt. Now I just think logically. I do not buy into the theory that someone 'up there' is out to get us or me (my dads attitude) I WILL NOT be so fatalistic. I will not bring my dd up to believe that no matter what she does it will be taken away from her in the worst possible way. Getting emotional now, damn song on radio. Damien 'I'm so depressed' Rice. Anyway...where was I oh yes, the fantasy world, the picture every 3 months. My dad asked on behalf of mother that she have 'a' picture. Well he just asked, I knew who it was for. And I knew that if she had one...she'd want another and another and another and what about a visit etc...i'm going off your point a bit there but i'm kinda on your theme ;) And the fantasy world, dh is fascinated by people like my mother and his mother. Do they ACTUALLY believe in their world. Or do they pretend to?

I agree totally with bringing them into reality...they seem to live in their own little bubble universe surrounded by people who daren't say 'no' or disagree with what they say or say anything about how they behave and if they do they just get silenced or told 'lots of people are like that'. Oh yes, I know what she means now...she meant your mothers! Wow...wonder what would happen if they all met up? Could we arrange it and a person with a camcorder? Make a great social study. Oh and I only meant your mother if she is a mentalist. Not if you love your mum. There are people out there that do have a good relationship!

gotta go again will reply to more stuff later!xxxx
Ps postie just been, all clear, card from uncle no mention of mother...phew!

Hi Ally
I think they really do believe their fantasy world is real. That is their reality. In their world, you can treat others as bad as you like, and they will still love you and come grovelling back for any tiny amount of love that you care to dish out. Which in fact was not a fantasy for many years because WE also believed it.
But then we grew up and met people in the real world, and realised that that is no way to live and to treat people. I believe that your mother and others in your family truly think that you have "done" this to her i.e. all her crazy behaviour from now on will be down to you. Its exactly the same with me.

I am quite a softly spoken person, but my mum has a very jarring, rough voice, and one of the things she said to me that made me think that she wasnt normal was when she screamed at me down the phone last year Youre f*cking up my head...". I was a quivering wreck after that conversation. But I had read, and strongly believe, that we alone are responsible for our own happiness or unhappiness. So that means no-one else has the power or ability to fck up your head. After that I realised she was obviously not right in the head, and <span class="italic">no</span> <span class="italic">matter</span> <span class="italic">what</span>, I was to always be the scapegoat for that. And I was to be the one who was supposed to take responsibility for her (clearly) f</strong>cked up head. That was very liberating. To realise she was responsible for sorting her head out, not me. She still thinks I should fix her, of course. And the fact that shes sinking deeper without me is making her more sure that Im "doing" this to her. But its interesting how Im starting to shine much brighter without her. We are drifting in opposite directions- me towards the happy end of the spectrum, and her towards the depressed, angry doom and gloom side.

THey say, its not the tragedies you face in life that define your character, but how you react to them that count. As sandcastles (I think) said, if we live our lives miserably like them, they have won, and we don`t want THAT.

Hi everyone, only just had a chance to catch up with this thread. So many good points made, and in particular Ally's point about the less obvious veiled style of undermining your self-esteem as a child making you confused about what love really is. My mum's method has always been to manipulate and keep me behaving as she would like by threatening to withdraw her love, giving me the cold silent treatment, etc - a direct contrast to your mum Greenie and yours Sakura. But somehow still frightening.

Greenie and Sakura your mums sound quite mad, I have to say. I can see completely why you have had to escape. As I say, my mum doesn't scare me by what she does, she is not at all directly abusive like your mums, but it is the underlying threat of her rejecting me, withdrawing her love and "paying me back" in subtle ways (as she has done by getting my brothers and sister against me) that I have always been afraid of. The curling of the lip that Ally describes, the sneering look... I suppose you might think that is nothing to be afraid of and I think the answer is that it isn't now, not now I am an adult. I know she wouldn't hurt me in a direct way like your mums. But I suppose I still feared her abandoning me - until she finally did! So in a way I don't have anything left to fear as you all do. (But on the other hand I know she is a game player so I can't believe she will just let this go. I had a dream she kidnapped DS1 and DS2 and I chased her car and opened the boot and there were poor little DS1's legs sticking up from a pile of coats and bags. So I guess a part of me doesn't know quite what she is capable of).

I have been feeling a bit down again in the last week, not because I miss any of them because I really don't, but just because I can't quite belive how little I mean to them. When I was "close" to my mum (and I guess not challenging her in any way) she made me feel like I was her favourite.
I really see now how I was at the bottom of the pecking order in my family and that my mum was willing to place higher value on even my brother's wife's feelings (who she never even used to like)than mine. I just don't understand how anyone could behave like that to a child they really love which means she never really loved me. I guess it is that which is really sinking in now.

PS Lol Ally at your dead grandparents - do you have any other dead relatives that might support you?

I really identified with the comment Greenie made about when feeling down and questioning yourself all you have to do is imagine yourself waking up and being back in the "routine" - I know too that it is something I never want to go back to and I am so happy to be spending Xmas with my lovely in-laws who actually care about me and my feelings, and who tell me they love me and view me as a nice person who is someone to be admired and respected (DH's sister said all that about me).

Btw do you still see your older brother and sister Greenie? Any support/common ground now that you feel the same as them?

PPS (! Keep re-reading all the posts and finding other bits that are spot on!)I did actually threaten to throw myself out of the window once and my stepdad said I better not because the council would have to come and clear up the mess and both my mum and stepdad were laughing.

I can't imagine how I would feel, like you Ally, if one of my dc ever felt that bad that they made such a threat. And yet until you wrote that a part of me thought that was normal.

PPPS Normal as in a normal parental response to such a threat by a teenager.
It isn't is it?

I suppose the reason I ask is because it did diffuse the situation - I didn't jump (wouldn't have anyway, too chicken, but was just trying to get them to notice how unhappy I was). The result was that they had a good laugh, I felt like a twat for saying it and no-one ever talked to me about the reasons why I had felt bad enough to say a thing likr that. It was just put down to me being me - "There goes Pages, over emotional and irrational, again"

Happy Christmas everyone!

Hugs from me to you all!

DD been ill with cold (better now, just sniffly) and been wrapping presents and shopping, hopefully be posting again this week!

Contact from mother so far. Card, one. Present, one. Well not sure if present counts. It was from the cat. (Pages, nope not just dead relatives, used my dad and living relatives too, now desparate and using cat...actually they have 3 cats, and some fish...maybe the house will be missing me next? or her handbag?) Was very impressed by the handwriting tho. Strangely like my mothers.

Anyway, fingers crossed there will be no 'visit', I'll be jumping at cars going by all day...

Heart goes out to you guys who do have any contact. Be strong. Think to yourself not how awful am I, but why would someone go to the extreme of splitting from their family/mother? Must be a good reason. As far as I'm concerned if you don't feel physically or emotionally safe round family/mothers then you have every right to stay away and cut all contact. Everyone has a right to be happy and we all make our own happiness.

Feel like breaking out into Spice Girl songs now...girl power! Hmm maybe more for men that...anyway we're all strong, and we will not give in to emotional blackmail (sobbing how much they miss us) or agression of any kind. They made their beds and they can lie on them and we made ours and doing the same. If we can do that, so can they.

Think I'm talking myself into mood for any possible confrontation with mother...

Anyway if anything does happen and your feeling wavery, silence is your friend, non commital comment 'i see' or sleep on a decision. Don't collapse in a heap! If necessary stick they clothes pole up the back of your clothes to give some backbone.

Right I'm off, going to enjoy first mother free Christmas Day!

Bliss.

xxxx