My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

[Pages]

I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Pages-I have read your story and some of the others. I do intend to read the whole thread but there is quite a bit to get through, so may take a while to catch up.
I am cutting and pasting my story from another thread. It was attilla that suggested I post here. Thanks for listening.

Attila- Thanks again for your posting- I have read that thread and it did strike a chord with me. But I felt 'that' posters story was so much more painful than mine, and I was a fraud being part of it.

The fact is we were 'all' emotionally and sometimes physically (i.e hitting) abused by my parents. I guess I got the brunt of it as I am the eldest-by quite a bit. 6 years between me and brother, 10 between myself and brother and sister.
As as result of the abuse, Ive suffered depression for most of my life, didnt realise it til after my son was born. I tried to commit suicide a few times as a teenager, the second time my parents caught me and my fathers reaction was to hit me and then precede to smash the front room up and leave, which is where my mother took over dragging me down the stairs by my hair, yelling look what you done, then preceding to lay into me physically also.
My siblings never experienced abuse to this extent theirs was more verbal...For a while a long time I was made out to be the balck sheep, after all my take on things was difffernt cos I was older and seen more. but all my siblings are definately of course all baring scars form having such toxic parents.

7 years ago i was so depressed I couldnt get out of bed, and I wont say I was suicidal but I will say it crossed my mind, and that no-one would either notice or care if I did disappear. I tried confiding to my mum at that stage, I guess I just wanted her to hug me and say it was ok. But she looked disgusted and told me not to be so ridiculous.
Thankfully I pulled it together and paid for a year of counselling (still wouldnt take the meds as too proud). I got as far away as I could- the other side of the world infact.
For a while I found peace, I felt 'so' free and happy I can not tell you. But somehow it all began to crumble again. I dont know what the trigger was but I'm guessing the fact my mum and dad began their descent into a very vicious divorce. It involved everyone, and divided us all.
Maybe I was pulled back in by this I dont know.
When I had my son, I finally had a reason to seek 'real' help and so....under the guise of PMD I went on Ad's. I could not believe the difference it made to my life. The transformation was invcredible. I thought Id finally nailed it. But then had a huge urge to return home to my family and share my ds. After all I was a new woman.
I think looking back now-the ad's were great but they were masking what was still going on inside me.
Like the OP on the thread you mentioned. I too obviously have some inherant need to be loved and accepted by them still.
Without the Ad's as a crutch (came off them to concieve) All the old feelings of rejection, hurt and anger seem to be flooding back right now.
The big thing in my family I think is control. They do it by dividing us and giving more to one than the other. EG my dad refusing to be in the same room as mum = you choose her or me. Those that chose him, younger bro- 60,000 for his business.
And sis a fully expensed car, convertible and never had to work in her life (not a real job anyway). Not saying this makes her a bad person. Its them not her. Theyve made her totally dependant.
Whilst currently my mother...is all over me (as much as she ever has been anyway), as I still see her, invite her to things...I am percieved to be in her camp. But I mistrust her as she has been so cruel and callous throughout my life and never been there when Ive needed her most.

I have to stop here dont no how clear this comes accross. but wanted to answer you Atilla, and let you know how spot on you were, I cant belive it. Down to age gaps, divorce the lot. Thankyou

I see I have to find a better way of dealing with this...not sure how, but for the sake of my kids and my family who I love dearly.

Hi Smithfield...OF COURSE YOU SHOULD BE ON HERE!!

Dear me! Your as bad as the rest of us (btw referring to other thread Smithfield started) if you glance (speedread) thro the thread none of us really feel we should be on this thread. Which makes you one of 'us' (that being a good thing ).

TBH your mother does not seem the most empathetic of mothers does she? I mean...try to top yourself and she beats you up...?!? Callous is not the word. Let alone the physical abuse.

You can find a way forward through this. Councelling may help you, its helped me and others on here. Self help books are also a big help to me. And of course posting on this thread

I hope the christening goes well. But consider your options after that. You don't have to live with this pain all your life, staying around people who don't really love you or value your needs and wants.

Your not alone anymore...now go have another cry, it helps and see if you can order a book or two on amazon. My personal recommendation is 'divorce a parent' beverley engel. It covers getting on better with parents, to divorce but its been my bible since I broke contact with my mother.

Hope you keep on posting and reading...and have some hugs [[[smithfield]] for the one's you never had as a child...and you can have my huge heap of warm towels to snuggle into (read about a page or two down for the 'in' joke!)

take carexxxxxxxxxxxx

Hi ally- Thanks for such a lovely warm welcome. haven't read your story but will zip through and try and find it now.
Not sure about the way forward-But know what you mean...after the christening I will have to take stock.
It would be so hard for me because I'd need to cut them both out. once i do that there would be huge repurcussions, i.e siblings would probably gradually cut me off too. Although I feel this is already happening with two of them. I need to have the right intentions, as in cut them out to make my life better ,as opposed to 'will they miss me? will it make them want me' IYKIM.

Question re counseling-dont think I can afford private- any of you gone through NHS route? Would think this would take months if not years?

Also is this generally how I should start thinking, that I need to not be around them at all? Desperate to go back on AD's but I just cant contemplate whilst PG.

Hi Smithfield and welcome.

Computer broken and on a laptop, can't get on with the damn thing so will be back (i know, I always say that...) shortly...

In the meantime am a bit confused about "the other thread" - which one? When you refer to the OPs post being more painful than yours, which post/thread are you referring to? Surely not this thread, and my OP?

Hi Pages

The other thread is the one entitled "So angry at her.....sorry long rant". It warrants reading through from the beginning (its a couple of pages long).

Pages- Yes I was refferring to this thread and to your story. Id read it a week or so ago felt for you hugely but felt guilty and embarrassed cos I thought, well I didnt have it that bad, so pull yourself together.
I have read more of this thread now and can relate to 'all' your stories in some way or another.

Can barely believe what I've read of this thread so far. No one ever understands really do they, unless they've been there. Its all come to a head again cos of the christening. I hate family events (like you pages) cos i end up feeling, hurt, rejected and inferior all over again.

Just spoke to my dad on the phone. Wont go into it as will result in essay! But although he was telling 'me' he wouldnt be going and left it to today to let me know, he came off aggressive, 'well Im ringing you NOW aren't I!', and then turned it onto me. 'I dont need a lesson (lecture) from you'. When all id said was it would have been nice if he could just say 'yeah sorry should have called before'

Guess what they say to 'us' is beside the point, what I mean by that is someone made an excellent point on here earlier, in that we have been 'programmed' to feel, bad, inadequate, unworthy as a result of thier diabolical behaviour.

Sorry off on one. God it helps to vent dont it!

Ally- read your story ((hugs)) back at you! You need them too. I will have to tell you my pregancy, labour story soon. Involves my mother and its a hoot!

Have to say Im quite taken by the fact there are a few in oz. This is where I ended up for 6 years! Is it a haven for kids from dysfunctional mums or what. LOL

Smithfield

shock at what you dad said and the way he spoke to you. Uncalled for. But bet you wondered after if you had asked for it...

It is traumatic the breaking off of contact with family. And nooooooo, most likely they will not be pleased someone they can offload their mental pain off onto is going to turn round and say 'no more'. But this is your life, your child and your choice. If they don't like it, well you and your child come first now. Not them. Afterall, who is the new mum and child here? Certainly not 3 adults who you happen to be related to. If they were going to change, they would have done it years ago and if they were doing it now, they would be showing signs of wanting to move on. And they don't look like they want to move out of their little 'comfort' zones.

Your the emotionally strong and healthy one here. Help your child be the same and keep you both safe from emotionally abusive people like your family. Alternativly...you can stay in contact on your terms if total cut off is too much for you.

Got to go now...keep posting and I'll be thinking of you on sunday, let us know how it went. If the going gets tough, remember this thread...we'll all be silently cheering you on.

xx

umm...that was doing too many links today!

I am just that you could think my story worse than yours, Smithfield. haven't read the other thread yet, will in a minute, but the sheer fact that your parents could react the way they did to you trying to kill yourself is just so unbelievably sad and awful, i can't believe you think what has happened to me is worse than that!

Just imagining you were my child and i was the one who found you. I would be hugging you and telling you I loved you and asking you to forgive me for ever letting you get so miserable you could want to do a thing like that. I am so sorry your parents were such woefully inadequate, self-centred, emotional delinquents. Your mum does not deserve your loyalty.

Well done for surviving despite them. I really don't think you can expect too much from the NHS in terms of counselling - you don't get much and you have to wait. If you can afford to put some money aside to go private once a week, it will be the best money you ever spent (IMO).

I am just that you could think my story worse than yours, Smithfield. haven't read the other thread yet, will in a minute, but the sheer fact that your parents could react the way they did to you trying to kill yourself is just so unbelievably sad and awful, i can't believe you think what has happened to me is worse than that!

Just imagining you were my child and i was the one who found you. I would be hugging you and telling you I loved you and asking you to forgive me for ever letting you get so miserable you could want to do a thing like that. I am so sorry your parents were such woefully inadequate, self-centred, emotional delinquents. Your mum does not deserve your loyalty.

Well done for surviving despite them. I really don't think you can expect too much from the NHS in terms of counselling - you don't get much and you have to wait. If you can afford to put some money aside to go private once a week, it will be the best money you ever spent (IMO).

See, I am that I had to repeat it

PS can relate to what you said though Smithfield, although i never got so far as trying to take my own life, I remember how disgusted my mother used to look at any emotional display of "weakness" from me, and how often I felt I had no sanctuary, nowhere to turn.

I ran away from home one night aged about 13 or 14 and she never even bothered to come looking for me. I spent the night out on the streets trying to find somewhere warm to sleep. My younger brother found me crying and frozen on the doorstep in the morning and did my mum's disgusted face for her, stepped over me and went off to do his paper round. Noone else ever mentinoed it again.

Smithfield,
I feel so sad at reading your story. It takes a lot of willpower and strength to break away from this chaos, but it honestly is worth it in the end. Its not selfish- if you dont look out for yourself and your child, then no-one is going to. I think this is the horrible thing about realising our parents are toxic- that there is no one looking out for us except ourselves. That lovely homey idea of a mother and father being there for us doesnt exist. And that would be easier to bear if they were dead. But the fact that they are alive and actively trying to wreck our lives is so awful to cope with day to day. That is why cutting them out is such a sensible option for so many people.
I too live abroad (in Asia) and I donT think its a coincidence that so many people here have tried to get as far away as they could. In my case, it had a very practical use-my mother is the kind of person whod revel in contacting my in-laws (who I don't get along with and informing them 'all about me' (i.e all my faults), or she'd come to my flat and bang on the door until I opened it so all the neighbours would wonder what was going on. I feel a certain sense of security knowing I`m so far away, but I still have a dread that she could find me (I still feel that she has supernatural powers!) and explode my litte life here.

Pages- once when I was about 11 on a freezing day after a heavy spate of physical abuse, my mother threw me out of the house wearing only shorts. I ran away to the fields and stayed out as long as I could. I was cold and miserable and when I got back home, I found theyD called the police to search for me (knowing theyD really gone too far and if I'd committed suicide it would have been understandable). The police gave me a nasty lecture about how I' "wasted police time" while my mum played the loving mother in front of then, hugging me and acting like she couldn' t understand why I'd gone. The idiot police couldn't grasp the situation even though it didn't take a genius. I didn't even speak. I was dumbstruck at the entire situation.

I don't know why but your story just brought that story back into my mind and I suddenly now remember how it felt. But in a sense thats good because it reminds me what I've turned my back on.

Oh, smithfield- I just read your thread and something you said really struck a chord with me- about looking at your own child and thinking "how could anyone hurt something so beautiful" because children just look like little angel gifts, and then thinking "well I must be a piece of * then if my parents didn' think the same"
I think cutting our parents out of our life is really important psychologically because it puts the shame and the blame firmly back on their lap. We feel shame and guilt and responsibility for things that aren't our fault, in our relationships with our family and in our daily lives too (like we keep apologizing even on here for things that aren't bad- like we're apologizing for existing). So for example, when my own mother decided she was going to wreck my wedding, I felt responsible for her actions. I felt shame and guilt and self-loathing at her actions. These were things she should have been feeling because she was doing nasty things.
Well anyway, when I cut her out of my life, what happens is that all these negative things go back to her. She can't blame you anymore for these things. Its hard to explain the dynamics, but it feels like you're no longer responsible for all the terrible things your parents do and say to each other or to you. Its like, you're abdicating responsibility in favour of your own child.
Of course they don't like it and they'll kick up a fuss and get worse and worse over the course of the time you're trying to break away because they don't want to lose their "whipping boy". If you're not there to absorb all their rages and negative emotions, either they'll have to find someone else or face themselves.

As you said in your thread, this will be a lot harder than just putting up with their crap day to day. It was easily the hardest thing I`ve ever had to do in my life. But so so worth it.
You don' have to cut them out either, but you can just draw boundaries around yourself to protect you.

Its ironic, my mother instilled in me a real fear and dread of her as a child. I was so frightened of this monster she would become. Even an adult when I had dealings with her, those old feelings would come back and I'd feel panick. But what she hadn't realised was that making me feel like that as a child thereby traumatising me had left me no choice but to cut her out of my life. It was taken out of my hands. It wasn't really a concious, adult deicison, but more like a feeling of life and death and preservation and protecting my child. She made me feel like this about her, and in a sense she inadvertantly helped me to break free of her.

Okay- vent over now!

Just got to echo that one Sakura, I too went back to the child I was while pg and felt I had to protect myself and my child from her abusiveness. My therapist thought I was being child...I was...but with all those hormones raging and the need to protect myself and baby from harm I felt I had hobson's choice.

Really feel for you and pages running away/thrown out. Times I considered it but never carried through...heartless gits to drive you too it/throw you out.

Your experience sounds awful Sakura. Your mother knew how to play the part, alright. Mind you, at least your mother bothered to call the police...

Forgot to mention that I got so cold and frightened that i went home long before morning but as the house was dark and they were all in bed I didn't dare knock and wake them up as I knew they'd be more mad about that.

My mother now rationalises it by saying "I just thought you'd gone next door to the neighbour's". Wouldn't you have rung the neighbour and checked? I know I would.

Smithfield, finally caught up with your thread, all the way through...

Firstly, good luck tomorrow, hope all goes well and try to remember that (as someone else said on teh other thread) your DH and DS and LO on the way are your family now, your insensitive parents and sister are the past, your own little family are your present and future. It sounds like your DS will have some godparents who value the role for what it is meant to be, and will look out for your DS, whether or not your sister is one of them or not, and that is all that really matters.

I strongly suspect that your sister sees you as the connection with the vulnerable side of herself that she expressed some time ago and now wishes to deny again. You are a reminder of her vulnerbility that she doesnt want or need. She prefers to remain in the same state of denial that my younger siblings are living, and material objects, flashy cars and hotel rooms and a new boyfriend are all part of the facade for her. Getting in touch with your feelings is painful, after all, requires effort, honesty and the realisation that your parents failed you, and probably did not love you, that is very hard to admit to yourself, and god knows it has taken me all my life to admit that to myself. At least not love in the sense that I now understand it, now that I have two children of my own that I would move heaven and earth for, that I would die for, and who could never ever do anything that would change that.

You have to let go of the notion that your sister is going to change, that your parents are going to change, that you are going to wake up one day and find them all feeling about you the way you would wish. They are not capable and your siblings, scarred or not, are part of the family system of denial that has helped everyone else survive and that has in the process let you down so badly.

Like you, like many of us on this thread, it was having our own children that brought our true feelings to the fore. Your sister is not in the same place as you and doesn't want to be (neither do my younger siblings). It is also very common for it to be the older child or children and especially females that seem to carry the burden of the "bad feelings" and become the scapegoats or the dustbin for the unconfortable feelings that the others won't accept in themselves.

You are NOT unloveable. THEY are incapable of loving. That is a fact. I too was not hugged or cuddled as a child and it has taken me a long time (and perhaps, like you, the love of a nice DH) to realise that it is not something intrinsically unloveable or faulty in me that has led to this. I am fortunate to have an older brother who remembers everything and perceives everything as I now do (I was in denial like your sister for a long time).

I strongly reccommend "Toxic Parents", counselling (whatever you can afford even if once a fortnight) and taking a back step from your toxic parents and siblings. You sound very "enmeshed" with them. The situation with the christening sounds exactly the sort of thing that used to go on in my family, your mum stirring things (why tell you that your sister was bothered about the lack of contact, why not just let your sister speak to you? Your sister then denying it, etc, very similar to any time my family got together). You don't need this crap in your life, so don't invite it.

Sorry if any of this has sounded harsh, it is not meant to but you are worth so much more than this. Once you stop trying to get people to love you who aren't capable of doing so, you will attract many more who ARE and WANT to love you, in the way that you have always deserved. I personally don't think it matters a bit whether people are family, blood, friends, whatever. It's how they make you feel about yourself that counts.

Keep posting. We are here for you. x

Well yes exactly Pages.., you'd call the neighbour wouldn't you! You keep saying that your mother was more "covert" than my mother, but some of the things you've mentioned have been pretty blatantly abusive, like this one. Maybe we minimize our own experiences, like ally says, in order to minimize the pain. The more I read, the less I think your mother was subtle in the way that we've been saying-- unless I've just read it wrong.
I'm so glad we've turned out in someway normal despite them, not because of them and that we know what a half-way normal reaction would be!!

Ditto Pages and Sakura...all what you both said!

I was thinking this morning that none of us are good judges of our own abuse. It takes validation from others to help us realise what happened was not okay.

So to all those who read and don't post...I know how I would have felt about posting here if I had not been seeing a therapist for over a year first. We have all in some way been led to believe by our families that what happened was 'normal' and it was our response to it that was abnormal. Which doesn't help posting on here because we think we're the one's who had the problem, not our families.

I think the acid test is think of something particular which a mother/father/sibling/relative used to do to you and think 'would I go do that now to my dc?' I usually get revulsion at the very idea of bullying my own dd the way I was.

Got to go, my dd is trying to help me type!

Good luck today Smithfield! Let us know how it goes.

xxx

Thanks for the validation Sakura. It WAS pretty blatant wasn't it? Maybe my mum was not that different to yours - she just let someone else do the screaming, shouting and hitting for her.

Just started reading "The Legacy of the Heart" (mentioned earlier). Not too impressed so far. Should have realised as author is a minister that forgiveness would be the first thing on his agenda... Why does everyone think that is the panacea for all evils? Especially people who haven't actually suffered that much, it seems...

Hi Sakura and Pages- Thanks for sending your support for Sunday.
I will update yo shortly but have to get some stuff done this am first- but wanted to say thanks for thinking of me

Felt sad to read both your stories- especially as I can relate to the hurt and confusion it must have caused you both at the time.

After this weekend- my head feels like its been turned inside out- but Im feeling calmer today now they've (mainly mother and sis...yes she turned up) have gone.

Quick question to you all. Those of you who have counselling; 'How did you choose your therapist/counsellor?'

Really think I need some help right now with this. I have looked on website Attilla gave me- and there are a few in area, just wondered what was your experiences with this.

Anyway- hope you had good weekends and will write again later

sorry, it was ally and pages ( I tend to prattle on about general advice-not specifics!)

• Ally- how could I have missed you out-after all your support! See head currently on inside out.

Sakura- how are you doing today?

Hi all- The christening went well overall. My sister did turn up. She arrived at two o'clock saturday, stayed til 3.30 then said she had to go as she had to get some things in town. I asked her if she would help pick up the food first, while mum looked after Jake. She was ok with that, but asked how long would we be!
My mum picked her up the next morning and they got back (from a 30 min journey at 11.30-(she'd left at 10) My sister then had to leave again at 2.30 for her flight.
My mum took her and said she'd head back to London too. Then my mum said 'Happy christmas and New Year@ and left????'

Im glad my sister came but it feels like there is a wall between us. I asked her why she couldnt have let me know she was coming. I thought she must have known I'd stress about it!
I also noticed it feels more and nore like being around mum with her. It was the first time she'd seen our house but no comment, asked her if she liked my hair (coloured it that morning) She said 'Its darker'. We'd just had the bathroom done and I showed her and she said ' Why is the side panel on the bath like that', and you need to do this or you need to do that....nothing positive at all. Im sounding like I probably came accross on the other thread now....a woman who wants- expects this or that from people....maybe I am....dont know.

The time spent with mum was really fractious too- I feel like I turn into an angry teenager, especially whilst pregnant. (worst time ever with her when preganant with DS). She just seems to be more interested in texting her buddies and watching reality TV than interacting with Ds, which really annoys me as she hardly sees him at all due to where we live.
I really re-sent that she insists on calling me fatty now Im pregnant. I say insists, she has said it two or three times now....but I dont see her that often and I still think I wouldnt dream of calling a pregnant woman fat...let alone my daughter.

As for dad- he didnt ring or call-after we had words and no card or message sent with sis (they live together). Dont know why I expected any more from him really.
I never really thought I had any issues with him at all until recently. Now Im beginning to feel he 'is' as manipulative and controlling as mum...just does it differently. He is also really withholding. he was basically an absent father and now he is beng an absent grandad.

Sorry for going on.

Ally- you are so right to say I seem so enmeshed with them all. Don't know how that happens, why cant I disconnect?