My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Ta Pages, well if you don't laugh...

I'm like a rock with my therapist after 3 years! Can cry but don't like to. Still feel silly.

Thanks for books, hugs and towels, right back to you! (not the books...I need those )

Now get some work done! And maybe I should do something about this tip...

AttilatheMeercat...got to say thanks for the comment you made 'mad as a box of cut snakes'...just realised its been subtly going round in my head since I read it! Also better discribes my mother than my personal favourate 'mad as a box of frogs' cause frogs don't bite

Ally, just wanted to say hello and how good it is to read how positive and strong your posts yesterday evening and today have been. You should be giving your therapist therapy! Like Pages I've been thinking of you and everyone on this thread a lot in the past few days. I don't even want to think how I would have coped without this thread. The books are a great help, but to be able to come here is invaluable.

Would send you more fluffy towels but suspect you have large piles of them by now, so instead.

Right, Off to me therapist...armed with all your thoughts and comments all reread and stored in brain!! Going to kick some ass! (or politely tell him I feel rather angry if you don't mind and would he care to explain why he thinks my mother spending hours on a memorial of her dd is a good healthy loving thing to do )

Taking towels with me.

xxx

and my broom.

Maybe you could add "Trick or Treat?" when you've finished??

How did it go with your therapist Ally? and more importantly how did it go with flying there and back on the broom [hgrin]

Flying was fine, bit scary at first but when I got a tail wind behind me I was well away. Lost my frog somewhere along the way tho [hhmm]

Ummm...to sum up...we got it sorted out. Spent 50 min discussing how we interacted and how I felt about his reaction to the memorial.

Its all so complicated and involved I keep trying to sum it up and I waffle on aimlessly! Turns out he has broken contact with some of his family himself. So that is good. I think much of this is to do with me and how I would like him to take sides. I feel much more 'adult' after our conversation which is good. I feel I'm letting go of my 'not having done enough'. I've taken on from psychoanaysis how a 'proper' break up should go. And I've made it my moral standard and that is what has bothered me. But he pointed out that there is no 'right' way to break contact. He betrayed slight irritation with me for being constantly almost 'surprised' at my family making contact. He said even tho I don't want contact doesn't mean that they don't. And I need to take measures to protect myself rather than just let it happen. Ie letting dh deal with post. But anyway...feel better. Feel like I'm letting go of 'doing it properly'. For me there was no proper way. It was something I wanted from childhood and its not something I think I would have done without having a child. I wish I had had time to set boundries (and seen them repeatedly overstepped) but being pg sped things up past the 'reasonable' stage. Thing is we wanted a family asap due to dh age and I could not wait on my relationship with my family to dictate when to have a family myself...(sorry thinking to myself now...) my mother did have years to say sorry and put things right. But later events showed she still could not see how she put my sister first and shoved me on the back burner until I got pg. You know I can't remember ever spending some time alone with my mother to do something. My resident bully sister was always there. Then suddenly her occasional offers of spending time together (her, me and sister) became frantic efforts when I was pg to spend time alone with me somewhere. She wanted walks together, going to a tea room together, shopping together, my sister not there (could have been cause we weren't talking...). Its all too much like a rainstorm after a drought. Oh and the sheer revulsion of having her near me and my pg tummy. Talking down to dd even before she was born in that baby way she reserved for me. She never understood why I didn't like her doing that.

I just have to (finally) accept they are not going to change and choose not to.

oh and btw therapist agreed it would be useless them coming to therapy unless they wanted to change.

Anyway all is right with therapist now. And just given myself some more therapy on here. Now going to make some vegetable stock and lunch...and a nice hot coffee

thanks for listening

P.s. pages, I bottled it!

Why has halloween grin stopped working?! [hgrin] their still there to use...blooming tech!

So glad you managed to resolve things with him, Ally. I have my first session with my therapist tomorrow and am half looking forward to it and half dreading it. She sounded nice on the phone, so that's a start.

Hi Bearsmom

Glad your going. Hope it all goes well for you. The problem is...just where do you start.

I started with 'I believe I was emotionally abused by my sister and mother, I want to break all contact get on with them better' I thought breaking all contact was impossible at the time given their likely reaction.

Interesting you went for a female. Mine was luck of the draw. He was down as more 'behaviour therapy' ie how you can change patterns of behaviour, at a clinic nr work where I was also going to see the osteopath. Thought at the time it was less scary than a psychologist. I also remember on the phone to him saying 'what! go to the xxxx place for the mentally ill?! No I'll meet you at other clinic, if anyone sees me going in there from work they'll think i'm nuts' .

Hi Ally,
Im relieved to hear that the therapist knows what hes doing. Not least because it means you dont need to bother about looking for another one. But also because it must feel good to have another person to understand where youre coming from.
I suppose at the root of the suprise (that irritated your therapist) that they keep contacting is the underlying hope that Oh, maybe this time, itll be different, and they can change and we can all move on. I know deep in my heart, Im waiting for this big event to happen, but my rational side knows its not going to. I suppose every time there is contact, it represents some hope. But then yet again those hopes are dashed when we see the reality for what it is.

Ally now you've got me thinking about whether I'm looking for an alternative mother figure and that's why I've chosen a female therapist! But seriously, I couldn't imagine going and talking to a man about all of this but I'm not 100% sure why. I suppose it could be because my father has always been such an overbearing and negative presence in my life, but this hasn't led me to have a problem with men in general so that's probably not it.

I know just what you mean about where do you start. When I talked to the therapist on the phone she asked could I give her an idea of my reasons for seeking therapy and I was speechless for what felt like ages because I didn't know where to begin. I think I managed to get out a few coherent sentences about what's happened in the past few years, and hope we can go from there. Anyway, I'm rambling, must start the day.

No more than I'm looking for an alternate father figure! I just found that other female friends I have who have been in therapy chose women or if they had men did not get on with them. Part of me wishes I had a female therapist for the 'nurturing' hugs I never got and I would find it easier to cry in front of them possibly...but I also see it as just retrusting men in general. My dad was rather verbally agressive/depressive/alcholic (tendancies...4 or 5 nights drinking a week at one point).

One of my friends had a female therapist first and is now looking at going back into therapy but this time with a male therapist...

I'm not sure my therapist is one for hugs but she did seem very nice, talked a huge amount of sense (including some technical stuff about where in the brain we store our memories of traumatic events and how to deal with them, using something called the Rewind Technique) and I'm very hopeful that seeing her is really going to help. She too said that I shouldn't give any sort of response to my mother's email (other than the "I will see you at some point but am very busy at the moment and will get back in touch when I have more time" email that I've already sent). I definitely didn't have any trouble crying in front of her .

So pleased it went well for you

Rewind technique sounds interesting...

And as for crying...I find it a bit embarrassing in front of anyone...but the therapist will probably be used to strangers crying when they see her...probably given her a complex

Hello all, just popping in to say hello, I just said that didn't I.

Ally, good to see you're ok. And all is well with your therapist. I have been looking in and reading, but not feeling up to writing.

A 'feeling down' wave came crashing over me, out of the blue, not normally down (I think better run that last statement by my DH ).

Felt lots of different emotions over the last days or so. Does anyone else constantly analyse themselves, about situations, people, decisions? I mean really checking thoughts layer by layer, not the usual for eg.'That dress, can you only get it in red, should I get a bigger size, will it wash ok, and so on, blah, blah, blah'(had to do 3 blahs, as per the compulsive disorder thingy .

God does anyone know what I mean, I really tie myself in knots sometimes. Been constantly going over the past in my head lately, have really burnt out the family cell part of my brain. But then like always it seeps back and grows yet again! Well enough about me.

Fantastic Ally. Well done Bearsmon on making your step to therapy and good luck.(I keep looking at the ads and websites but don't feel ready,a scaredy cat really, feel worn out by all that has happened so far, need timeout0. But doing these postings is a great help. Ally you are quite right 'where do you start'?

I keep looking at books to read, love reading so maybe do a bit more, does help with understanding parents behaviour, actually understanding is not the word is it, [hmm). Reading helps with realising, i'm not nuts!

Take care all x

Take care all xxx

Thought I'd post what the rewind technique leaflet my therapist gave me says. It's used for "trauma", which she defined to me as memories which one can't remember without "reliving them", e.g. when I started talking to her about a particular memory (the one I mentioned in an earlier post which came back to me while I was driving) I got chest pains and felt breathless and started crying. These are memories which can't be dealt with calmly because every time you think of them you're reliving the trauma (not sure I'm explaining this all that well). Anyway, here's the explanation of the technique: "The rewind technique should be carried out by an experienced practitioner and is only performed once the person is in a state of deep relaxation. When they are fully relaxed they are encouraged to bring their anxiety to the surface and then they are calmed down again by being guided to recall or imagine a place where they feel totally safe and at ease. Their relaxed state is then deepened and they are asked to imagine that, in their special safe place, they have a TV set and a video player with a remote control facility. Theya re asked to imagine floating to one side, out of their body, and to watch themselves watching the screen, without actually seeing the picture (creating a double dissociation). They watch themselves watching a "film" of the traumatic event that is still affecting them. The film begins at a point before the trauma occurred and ends at a point at which the trauma is over and they feel safe again. They are then asked, in their imagination, to float back into their body and experience themselves going swiftly backwards through the trauma, from safe point to safe point, as if they were a character in a video that is being rewound. Then they watch the same images but as if on the TV screen while pressing the fast forward button (dissociation). All this is repeated back and forth, at whatever speed feels comfortable, and as many times as needed, till the scenes evoke no emotion from the client. There can be more than one "film" and with each one the rewinding process is quicker. If the feared circumstance is one that will be confronted again in the future the person is asked, while still relaxed, to see themselves doing so confidently. Besides being safe, quick and painless, the technique has the advantage of being non-voyeuristic. Intimate details do not have to be made public."

Dotty, you're not a scaredy cat! I've been thinking actively about having therapy for the last year and, if I'm honest with myself, having therapy about my family situation has been at the back of my mind for the last 20 years or so (basically since I left home!) so it's taken me ages! My therapist said yesterday that the time to come for therapy is when you can't really not do it because that's the time at which you're most open and motivated to addressing issues and making changes. Be kind to yourself and do things in your own time.

I do a lot of self analysis, especially along the lines of "is this how I feel or an attitude/thought process imposed by my controlling mother?" so I basically ended up not knowing who I was. But the longer I spend away from her the better it is getting and I think therapy will help speed the process.

Very interesting. I seem to have in many ways confronted my fear of my mother (or her anger and disapproval) but have realised recently that I am still bossed around by my inner "critical parent" (or "negative introject"). So that I am still either okay/perfect (when doing something well whereby as a child she would have been pleased, seeing me as an extension of her) or worthless,a slug crawling across the floor, who has no right to exist when I make a mistake, or am just human (a word I am getting used to - not something you could be in my mother's eyes).

I can still put myself into a really horrible place of worthlessness and insecurity when I am criticised or do something wrong. I know now why it happens, my "perfect" narcissistic mother always projected the uncomfortable unpleasant parts of herself onto me (which is what she did when all this started last year, made me out to be a liar when in fact it was her who had done something wrong). And the constant criticism of my stepdad compounded that.

And these feelings are standard ones for children of narcisstic/borderline parents. Guilt (thinking people are angry at me a lot)/shame (feeling as if I don't have a right to exist) and not trusting my own truths were the three areas that I came out strongest on a test in the book "Trapped in the Mirror".

The author mentioned humour, therapy and suport from others who have been through something similar (ie this thread!) as ways to counteract it but I would really like to be able to calm myself down when it happens. I wondered if anyone else has any tips for calming yourself down and stopping the "critical inner parent" attacking you?

Their at it again. Got a sledge now. .

Anyone want a sledge?

Seriously tho, its mega creepy now. They went up the driveway next to our house in car (we think) we heard banging around about 10ish 11ish (we were in bed) we assumed it was the the neighbours (noisy lot). Dh went down in morning, looked out kitchen window. There's a sledge on our side of the gate, obviously lowered over. I'm guessing they could have tried to open gate but luckily there's a bolt at the bottom...and a booby trap :D well it will be in the dark if you have no light, but burglars beware! Or random dropper offers...

Dh has said that by the end of the day I have to decide either him or me sends them a letter. I would like to use the opportunity to...

Let my father know while he continues to enable my mothers behaviour I cannot be in contact as he will continue to attempt to bring me into contact. And I also have lost all trust in him due to his enabling of mum's ideas.

Both stop all deliveries of my items and to get rid of the rest ie sell. And any further drop offs we will be seeking legal advice to take out a restraining order.

They can keep my cat and do for her as they see best when it comes to the end of her life. As I have stated before you have all responsibility for her.

I understand (here comes the therapist bumf) that they will be feeling hurt, angry, upset, grieving over this, but continuing contact through coming to x town, sending mail to myself, dh and dd will change nothing. What I have said still stands. We want no contact.

There is no more I can say to any of you. If you even started to try to listen to my experience of my childhood, even then I would want no contact given how I have been treated and by default, my dd and my dh, in the last 20 months. Your letters and presents do not make me feel loved. It just makes me realise just how little empathy you have for me, ever had for me even as a small child.

Will have to muddle it up and make it more readable. But want it to be short sweet and to the point.

So what do you think? Any thoughts? Think dh won't want it so long. But I want to get those points across. I particually like the last paragraph. To me it sums up their behaviour towards me all my life. Not a clue about how I feel cause they never even bothered to ask. Or rather dare not ask?

Ally

Presumably this was your parents' doing rather than someone else. If your parents have indeed done this (and I don't know who else would leave you a sledge with no note late at night, well it was not Santa Claus!) they are indeed madder than a box of snakes.

Have you taken said sledge to the charity shop - that's where I'd take it.

I would seriously look into getting a restraining order now, at the very least seeking legal advice because all this amounts to harrassment. You may want to speak to the Police re this matter.

Ally - I think you need to up the ante re them, time for the big guns. I would now seek legal advice from a Solicitor. I suggest this course of action because I do not think for one moment they will take any notice of what you or your DH write to them. They could use a letter from you against you.

If these two could be reasoned with, a jointly written letter from you both may have some effect but they cannot be reasoned with at all. Your Mother likely has an untreated (and perhaps untreatable) personality disorder and your Dad acts as both an enabler and bystander to her for reasons known only to him. In my eyes they're both as bad as one another.

Thanks for your reply Attila (both of them } going to therapist now...be interesting to see what he has to say...! Restraining order is looking likely at mo...always so pursauded (sp don't have time to check) by therapist...

Your posts have reasurred me I'm not being unreasonable (sp again!!)

Oh Ally . I agree with Attila that they really are madder than a box of snakes. What bizarre behaviour. Speaking to a solicitor and possibly getting a restraining order sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the shock of having an "outsider" involved might make them back off and take what is being said to them about leaving you alone more seriously? I hope so.

Pages, I experience the inner "critical parent" in exactly the way you describe and I'm also very big on shame, guilt and not trusting my own truths (think I must get hold of "Trapped in the Mirror"). I'm afraid I don't have any really inspired ideas for how to deal with this though I think I'm getting better at trusting my own truths (and working out what they are) the longer I'm liberated from my mother. The shame and guilt aspects are harder to deal with but I'm hoping others on here will have helpful suggestions ...

Okay not going for restraining order yet, will leave it with 'there will be consequences if you do decide to continue with this choice of action' or something like. Cause just imagine if it had been santa had dropped it off. Would be most . Can you take a restraining order out against a fairytale person?

Thanks bearsmom for your keep taking these things in and allowing it to sink in. Its not just me being 'abnormal'...so nicely leading to the previous posts

Shame and guilt...ummm still feel both. I echo what you said, anyone got any ideas? Apart from looking at issue in an 'adult' way. Something I did with therapist tonight, take apart the earliest memory I have of being made responsible for my mtoher and sisters feelings and look at it with fresh light, ie how would I react as an adult to a child who doesn't want writing on their pot (leg in pot...I was a captive audience to them!)

Your discription of the rewind technique is good. And sounds a good idea. But is there a benefit to not sharing a memory? I ask not as someone who has such traumatic memories but thinking in theory...surely it would be better to be given a different response from your therapist? Or I could have no idea of the horror of what you have experienced and accept some things are best unspoken...

Hiya dotty!

Something happened to get your mood up and down? A memory or contact? Over analyse...moi? Oh god yes. Constantly. Irritatingly so. Drives me bats. So I tell it to 'SHUT UP!' I think part of it...or all of it is a healthy dose of paranoia due to my mother and sisters interrogation of me as a child and other happenings since (living in small towns does not help!). I just have to constantly pull the analysing thoughts to heel with 'is there any need to do that?' or along those lines. I think its a thing of habit and maybe one day I will get it as habit! Do you ever get really horrible recollections of things you just said to someone and beat yourself up about it after? 'why did i say that?! I sound such a DICKHEAD, they won't want to know me now! They'll think I'm weird or something!' aggghhhh! Think I come out with this 'mad' (said in a dougal out of Father Ted way) family stuff to often...it scares people esp other mothers...find it hard to keep my mouth shut. Oh you can tell I've been on the wine (for 20 min's, strong stuff, hic)

Hi Pages!

Getting the other book you recommended...and 'stop walking on eggshells' recommended by another site. Can't afford it but who cares. It will help me validate myself more! How's things with you otherwise?

xxx