My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Thanks so much for the posts to all]

Been rereading them all and letting all the good advice you give sink in (yes you too dotty!)

No its not my fault I have felt a need to distance myself. Hanging onto that thought. None of this would have happened, nor would I be seeing a therapist if they were a normal supportive empathetic family. I don't want to be part of the family dynamic...I don't want to enter their weird little world at their house where normal rules of social intercourse and etiquette is suspended. And I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOUR!! That is to my therapist! No doesn't come on here...but I do feel I cannot trust him. Not a good thing to have with a therapist. I remember within first year he had said 'with physical or sexual abuse there is a good reason to cut contact for safety, but emotional abuse is not a reason' or along those lines. And I've subconciously remembered that...it just came to mind this morning. No wonder I don't feel supported in my decision. He gets quite frustrated I feel when I bring this up...says he doesn't care if I speak to them or not. But yesterday that was not what was coming out. He felt 'sad' about all parties concerned. Would not agree the 'memorial' was sick or wrong or just 'not okay' would have done! I know he has to stay neutral but that memorial was deeply disturbing as I kept saying to him. I felt he was very much trying to point out but 'how much time and care' had been taken over photos being printed that my mother does love and care for me and he asked what I felt I should do. Whenever I questioned him he insisted it was my choice/decison over contact and I did not have to get back in contact...but the non verbal aspect and the way he phrased things seemed to shout 'be an adult and speak to them as an adult' which he got me to say in so many words...ie why are the treating me as a child, what ego state am I in by ignoring them...

I'm going to speak to him next week...bring up the thing he said about breaking contact only if there was a safety issue. He believes that if its emotional you can protect yourself as an adult. But I do not want to have to do that. I don't want to be constantly under seige trying to battle off a smothering dependant mother and father who just wants me to take her on so he can have a quiet life again.

What a mess

I'm pulled in two as well by my dh and therapist. Dh encouraged me to break contact, pretty much insisted in the end. I felt slightly forced, however I was in such a state with the idea of confronting her with her abuse (and heavily pregnant) then the cards never stopped coming and her turning up on doorstep...then my father coming to visit and saying she was as bad emotionally as she was when she had a mc that I felt a need, particually as my therapist suggested I send a letter asap to basically help her move on in some way that I sent one when my dd was only 4 weeks old...there's me bf her trying to let down the milk, trying to stop feeling the world was all grey and be happy and trying to compose a letter to my mother to say I wanted no more contact. I did that cause she would not break the contact that I had requested in first letter. I could not stop to think, I could not stand to the point I felt like hyperventilating at the thought of her being near me and dd. I felt my hand was forced. I could have sent a more open letter later on but dh was pressuring to break all contact and therapist (only one occasion) suggested do a letter (whatever was in it) asap. My mother seemed to take it as 'oh she doesn't want more contact, I'll write back and tell her I'm open to it and going to relate', with a bunch of flowers. She had a chance to explain her behaviour, to admit fault, but she used it to deny it all/misinterpret examples. To tell me what a fantastic, loving childhood I had had (severe case of rose tinted glasses) and that is what the pictures where about she just sent. Nothing has changed from then to now. I just want her to admit her part in it all. To hear her apologise for bullying me. You have to know its hurtful to your child if you laugh AT them. To critise them. To laugh at your dd1's impressions of dd2. Its wrong! How can she have been so blind? How could my father? How could my sister? Even before I broke contact my mother was still acting in her nutty 'i'm a 6 yr old' way. Her 'mumsy' persona. Sorry I'm rambling...I'm just venting as suggested! Yes if feels better to get it out to all of you. You understand like my therapist and dh don't seem too. They have both been there, but deal with it in a different way to me. Maybe that is the issue. I should stop listening to both of them and do it MY WAY

Hmm do feel so split between them both. My dh maintains that if i contact them they will deluge me with mail/parcels/emails etc. I have to agree on that one. He says it will be to them like the castles defences have crumbled, no matter what I send. He wants to protect our dd from them as the little he has seen of my mother and heard from me makes him feel v uncomfortable the idea of dd being round such a 'disturbed' woman.

My therapist thinks (not openly) I should start an adult dialogue and possibly invite them to therapy and have a relationship with them where I act adult as much as poss and they learn my boundries and hopefully my behaviour rubs off onto them.

Bearsmom...what you say about your ds having an aspect of his character critised...that is just like my mother. And just what I fear. I tell my therapist this and he says its a good chance for me to set an example for my dd to learn from ie I suggest that my dd feels unhappy about that or whatever. For me I would not trust my dh to take her to parents because I do feel he would not see the subtle nature of their digs. Ie my dads doom and gloom view of the world. My mothers smothering and patronising, take no notice of what someone feels, laughing, teasing and generally mad as a badger behaviour. My sisters behaviour would be too easy to spot.

I'm going round in circles again...someone help me break out!

Thanks to you all for advice again...just need to vent right now. Also lovely to hear from Elizabetth, where did you hear of this thread? Your the second one...Amethyst was the other. Really appriciate you posting, esp when you haven't before And thanks too for posting spidermama and of course to dotty and bearsmom and sakura and pages...i'm onto a thankyou speech again...oscars here i come

p.s. don't feel purged yet by tears, but have in past so i know what you mean!

Oops...should check before posting...that was not a link it was 'hugs to all!'

Ally, not got much time because I'm at work but just wanted to say I will be back on tonight to answer properly.

In the meantime please please STOP feeiing guilty, your mother has done a HORRIBLE, MANIPULATIVE thing, you are absultely RIGHT to feel the way you do (i.e no apology/acknowldegment of what she has done and is still doing must mean no contact from you) and your guilt is something she has bred in you (but NOT warranted) because she is very good at doing so.

I see where your therapist is coming from but don't agree that you need to be in touch with her in order to be a "grownup". Some parents are just too toxic. I felt that I was able to answer my mother in an adult manner but then my mother is not as toxic as yours. Check out the chapter on "where to go from here" in Toxic Parents. Many people decide that no contact at all is the only way to preserve their emotional health (and therefore also btw look after their dc).

You are protecting your DD and the DD inside you.

Big hugs xxxxxxx

Hi Ally

Re your comment:-

"My therapist thinks (not openly) I should start an adult dialogue and possibly invite them to therapy and have a relationship with them where I act adult as much as poss and they learn my boundries and hopefully my behaviour rubs off onto them".

Can you not see another therapist?. BACP have a list of people in many areas of the UK. To my mind therapists are like shoes, you have to find one that fits (also one you can work with).

I certainly do not agree with his comment either about inviting them to therapy - they'd in all likelihood refuse as they quite possibly and honestly feel that they have done you no wrong. If your mother has a personality disorder which is likely given your writings these are extremely difficult to treat and some are untreatable.

They'd likely also turn the fact that you're seeing a therapist against you and call you mad or something awful. I would pick up the therapist on this. Some are certainly far better than others.

For your sake keep them well away from your good self.

It is not your fault that your parents are toxic - you have done nothing wrong except challenge their order. And they don't like it one bit.

Think your Dad has played the time honored role of bystander to his dysfunctional family unit. You mother is as mad as a box of cut snakes. Infact the photos she sent you could be indeed construed as highly disturbing. I would be also thinking of legal ways to protect yourself.

If I'm ever lucky on the ol' lotto I am going to ask Susan Forward to counsel each of you individually after our all expenses holiday to the Shangri La Valley Wing in Singapore.

Yours with the fluffy towels!!!.

Attila x

Oh Ally how horrible. Sorry I am at home with my son today, so am finding it hard to string together a sentence. Just wanted to say that your therapist does not sound like he is there for you, and I think you should find another one that you feel more comfortable with.
What your mother did is just not right, if she really felt that way she would have showed it to you. Words are easy enough to write (and for some to say) but showing is a different kettle of fish, if you see what I mean. She can say it till she is blue in the face but until she actually shows you that she loves you as you are and respects you as a human being (i.e. accepting responsibility for her part in this mess) then I would keep yourself and your family well away from her and your father.
Offering you big hugs of comfort.

Just read back a bit more thoroughly and I am a shocked that your therapist did not think the memorial was sick. It has disturbed me, and I think by anyone's standards it would be found highly disturbing. I don't agree with his comment either about drawing a distinction between physical and sexual and emotinoal abuse. In fact it is the emotional abuse and failure to protect me by my mother that stands out for me well and beyond the physical abuse of my stepfather.

These might be your therapists truths but they are not yours. He is not God and quite likely has his own reasons for saying what he does. I agree you should find someone else.

I think even if you could get your parents to therapy it would be a disaster.

We all have to let go of the notion that talking to our parents is in any way like talking to rational thinking people, even with a therapist present that is not going to change, and could in all likelihood be even more destructive and abusive of you.

My mother, like yours Ally, does not understand or believe that she has done anything wrong, and that is NEVER going to change. Like yours she thinks she has always showered me with love. Your mother is idealising you as a 6 year old because that was the age she remembers you as being completely compliant and reflecting back to her the image of herself that she needs.

As Maisemor says if she truly loved you (in the way that we love our children) she would give you what you need now, ie an acknowledgement and apology. Instead she has given you what SHE needs.

Agree with Attila, she is mad as a box of snakes and your dad is a classic passive abuser.

BTW I feel exactly the same as you Ally. I am getting all sorts of different advice about what I should do or say now (or not say) to my mother, but the upshot is that I just don't WANT to be part of her family any more, there is nothing in it for me, and I am happier without her. If she can't even aknowledge one small dot of the harm she has caused me, I don't feel I owe her anything at all.

Your mother has done nothing to deserve your love or your guilt.

Dear Ally

As a very occasional poster (but frequent reader) on this thread, just wanted to send my sympathy to you too.

I'm not surprised your mother spent a lot of time putting together some photos of you with a message - when essentially the message is that she did everything right and you had a perfect childhood. Of course that's a message she will put any amount of time and effort into maintaining. What's partcularly great is that it is combined with a 'you're no longer my child' message - the dumped childhood toys. Could her communication be any more contradictory?

I think it's so difficult to get the right balance between trying to understand and deal with our damaged and damaging parents - and just accepting that there is something very wrong with them which probaby can't be fixed.

But please try not to feel guilty, or think that by somehow ignoring your mother's barking communications you're being the immature one. I can't see how you could have any positive or adult interaction with her at the moment.

Good luck - stay strong.

ALly, thats awful .
Words cant describe how shocking it is what shes done. Im so sorry. It has been done with precision and care and exactly as Circus said- to paint a picture of herself as a good mother. Of <span class="italic">course</span> shes spent time on it- it is crucial to her narcissistic image of herself that she ends up looking like the good guy here.
Its so obviously symbolic that your mother remembers this biddable little girl who would never have had the guts to stand up to her bullying. THat is the real ally (in her mind). The actualy Ally (you) is someone strange who is in ally`s body and your mum wants her out so the 6 year old can come back again ( the one who thinks her mum is normal). Its so warped and sad, and all of our mothers are the same in this respect.

Your therapist is wrong- not bad, but wrong. He obviously has never actually gone through something like this himself. I mean if were honest, any one of us might have agreed with him if we heard our stories coming from someone else. Its just that you have to <span class="italic">experience</span> this nightmare yourself to understand, and your therapist is "limited" in that respect. I think you should change, because its reached a stage where he obviously cant see where you`Re coming from.
All of us here thought automatically "Oh my god, poor ally, her mum has done something twisted and bitter"
Your therapist thinks "Oh, bless her, she spent such a lot of time on it- she obviously means well"

Just want to say what a lovely supportive man your DH sounds like too. You have him and a gorgeous little girl. This is about protecting them.
This fact was the final decider for me, and thats what makes it easily for me to look in the mirror at myself, even though I dont have any contact with my mother now. Just the <span class="italic">thought</span> of her shit filtering into my home and into my daughters life- well, itll be a cold day in hell if I ever let that happen (if thats the right phrase?). EVen them upsetting us, without touching our daughters directely, still affects our daughters. OUr mental health and state of mind is picked up instantly by our children. The last letter my mother sent, I just felt like Id been physically kicked in the stomach. I was almost bent double. I just made it to the bed and curled up inside and pulled the covers over my head in the dark room. But DD was playing about on the floor and I had to pull myself together for her, so after about 30 mins I got out of bed.
But that was a tiny bit of contact, so I wonder what damage she could do to me if I let her back into my life.

I'm so glad I've got all of you to help me. Think I'd be running back to them at this point but for your thoughts and advice...and my dh would physically stop me of cause

Can't stop long, dd just drawing (on floor now ) for a few min. But I've reread all your advice twice and everyone has helped. Still feel guilty but agree it has been bred into me. If my dd wanted no more contact I would let her go. No continued contact, if she doesn't know by whatever age that I love her then I've failed in my role as a parent and the only thing I can do is to let her go and live her life as happily as she can. And if that were without me, no matter how painful, I would not persue her. I'm trying to put my yardstick against my mother but its so hard to veer away from what I've been taught is 'normal' behaviour.

Also trying to have a positive communication with her at the moment...or indeed at any time is quite futile. I don't think she can get herself out of the role of victim, cause then she would have to be shouldering the responsibility she's trying to smother with her version of my childhood. And the 6yr old pic of me, so agree it reflects me just before I started a gradual fightback. Also the contradictory message, you put your finger on it Circus. That was what was bugging me as well...got the toys first and thought how aggressive and how obviously dumped am I! Then I find these pictures and i'm like 'huh? but...if you 'loved' me...why 'dump' my childhood toys like a cheating ex lovers clothes on the street in bin bags?' Makes no sense. Its trying to hurt me by throwing them on the street, but then telling me she loves me...god this is my childhood all over again!! She used to do this...cruelly tease me, or let my sister bully me and join in laughing...then suddenly go into her 'mumsy' role and say 'oh we were only teasing, I do love you'...massive contradiction...hmm breakthro there I sense. She's just the ruddy same.

Sakura...just seen your post...(I now have two mumsnet open...! Thread too long to pop up and down unless I have half an hour to spare...not that I do...dd is drawing on cupboard dr now...) so right (as is Pages)...that is also what I got from the picture...why not choose an adult one...there is one in there she could have chosen, but its like I'm not who she wants me to me...I'm not the ally she wants me to be...just wants me as a sweet (no trouble as I was told) biddable dd who didn't argue back. That is another thing that upset me...she's erased WHO I AM. This is why at that age (6) I started having fantasy's of meeting my knight on shining armour...who was just nice to me. And the main thing, accepted me for who I was. God its all fitting together...you lot are brilliant...

thanks for the towels and offer of therapy meercat

and pages...was hoping you would be back with more advice

So glad your all seeing the sick disturbed side of it...therapist was making me doubt my gut feeling................ like I should feel sorry for her and want to start trying to make amends cause she clearly loves me and obviously she just needs me back in contact to get back to normal so we can start again...I could be reading too much into what he said...but I'm not happy. Best thing is he has taught me how to discuss things in a non confrontational safe way so I feel confident in talking to him about it ah well...we all grow up one day and challange our 'parent'! I do think its not boding well for the future...I just have a fundemental difference with him...and its getting in the way of me trusting him.

got to go...kitchen now distroyed by irate 18 mth old. thanku all again xxxx

Just had another thought. I get why my dh does not want me to respond to my mothers/fathers mail. I send a letter, in fact 2 letters to mother saying I want no contact till I'm ready then 2nd letter, no contact again and she has not taken that as a no. Just as a starting point for negotiations. Again a reflection of what she did with more basic things...like her buying something crap from charity shop, me saying no then her going on and on about how lovely it is and then getting huffy then emotional blackmailing about it, acting all pouting like small child because I didn't want it. Just she's upped the anti now because this all has such a huge impact on her life and how she thinks her life should be.

Still so shaken over my own memorial. Its like that memorial is the death of that child to her and the death of my relationship with my mother to me. Still think its sick. To do a memorial to an adult me...but to me as a 6 yr old?? Who would want to kill off their adult child as a small child? So twisted!

And if I went back too her...she would still think this memorial as 'normal'.

Ally words cannot describe how i feel at what your mother has done, "always loved" if you had always been loved your mum would not treat you in this way, this is not treatment from a "loving mother", this is emotional abuse at its worse and i too feel that your mum has some sort of problem.

your dh sounds really good, your therapist im sorry to say not, please try and find another one, one that will help you to feelngood about yourself and help you to cope with this.

jen
xxxx

Just been reading all the posts. Do you think the memorial she sent you is another crazy way of her saying/showing how's she's feeling bad,(but then again I think how can this mother possess any feelings whatsoever except for her selfish self of course),(as with TP's their feelings always have to be shown first),(feeding on the sadness and using it like poison,bloodsuckers TP's really are!) And therefore she expects you to feel just as bad too. Passing her sadness onto you through the memorial along with her seriously infected bad karma.

Don't let her do it Ally!

Classic emotional blackmail. Do not accept her guilt, don't write anything!

Sorry Ally, i'm always reflecting afterwards and changing mind.

Lots of hugs x

Thanks Jen and Dotty xx

She does want me to feel guilty and sad. She succeeded briefly but with all the help I'm getting here I'm fighting back! I would not be here now with a normal loving mother (wish I had one who didn't put her needs and weirdness first). And Dotty, I describe my stalker friends and family as vampires! They do suck the goodness out of you, leech it away...! Apt for halloween...

Jen I am seriously considering my therapist. Thanks to what he has done so far I have no fears of facing up to him (unlike my parents) I know he would not say anything hurtful and that he will listen to me. Just we seem to disagree on this one point. I'm suspecting he's a christian and believes family's should stick together and this is influencing his work with me. Perhaps I should be clearer on what I need him to do. Such as work towards ending my 'relationship' with them. I feel as if if that is resolved then I feel able to move forward better with my personality stuff (ie confidence etc). After my parents turning up on doorstep the day I was out of hospital (expressly told my father I did not want mother round, he brought her in the car later on in day) I felt that showed me just how self obcessed my mother was and how little, if at all she cared for my feelings and that of her gc that she professed to love. But I offered excuses in my mind, she was destraught over her long time ambition to be a gm thwarted and was thinking back to her mc (when I was about 6). But this is 18 months on. This memorial is just sick and wrong. She's killed me as my own person off. Clearly just wants to remember me before I went all wrong. I cannot accept that, just as she cannot accept me as I am, an independant adult who does not wish to play mind games anymore and just wanting a peaceful, calm, loving life. I don't want the hassle my family bring. Just want to be happy and nurtured in my own happy environment. I don't want that peace to be disturbed and neither does my dh. We have dd to consider. We also discussed this evening that we both have thought again, individually, about the wisdom of letting our dd, when she is emotionally mature enough, to go see my mother with my dh. But we both feel that is out of the question now. She would only start working on dd. So afraid she will get opportunity when she is 16 . Part of me wanted her to see her as it was only fair, it is her grandmother/father and aunt. But now we feel it just would be wrong to put her in a room with them. And I have to admit I was terrified at the idea of our dd going there at any time with either of us. Or me in contact with them so she could. Felt selfish, and asked myself how I would feel in the same situation...

Typed another novel...

Hi Ally, been here an hour or more - just re-reading all the recent posts and making notes, and trying to get to grips with mumsnets new layout...

What your mother has done seriously freaked me out today, found it hard to concentrate at work, and it wasn't even me, and my mother, so Lord knows how I would have felt if it was me this happened to. You are amazingly strong, bright, generous, humorous, and brave. But it is natural to be completely shattered by this, anyone would be.

It is a crying shame that your mother has (quoting approximately from a book on BPD) "taken the idealized image of you and put it on a pedestal and thrown the real you in a ditch", but what she has done is symbolic of exactly that. I also think she is absolutely desparate. She has surely played her trump card now, what can she do beyond this?

I agree with what bearsmom said - I have read that when the scapegoat leaves the family the others try desparately to get her back as they need her to keep the family functioning.

Your therapist doesn't have to stay neutral -of course there are always two sides to every story but your therapist is here to hear yours and support you, not to speculate as to how nice your mother may be, really. My therapist would never tell me to respond asap to my mother - he wouldn't tell me I should respond or not respond at all. I find that highly suspect.

I too wanted a man dfrom a very early age for the same reasons as you, a knight in shining armour to care about me. I remember at age 6 drawing hearts round the name of a boy at school and my mother and brothers getting hold of it, and teasing me, mercilessly. I remember trying (mortified) to pretend it was someone else at school who had written it (another girl with the same initials as me) and being punished for lying. A bit of a theme here? Well, of course, I did make it up, it was a lie I suppose (but quite imaginitive also, don't you think?) but I was only 6 and I wouldn't have had to lie if they hadn't invaded my privacy, snatched it from me, teased me and humiliated me, even beyond the point where I was in tears.

There are so many strands to the sort of abuse that you suffered Ally, and that many of us on this thread suffered, and I think Sakura is right that unless you have been through it you can't know how subtle, vicious and deeply penetrating it is. Fortunately most of my friends understand and support me, but I have one old school friend who knew me at that time who when I told her about all this tried to put my mother's point of view across (but she had a terrible time with men, her life was hard, maybe all she meant was...etc ) and I have not been in touch with her since.

You KNOW in your heart that she has treated you appallingly, your DH knows that, and WE know that. I personally would not bother with anyone who tries to tell you any different.

The realization and acceptance that you have not been loved by a parent in the way that you should and deserve to have been is a cruel and harsh realisation and it changes your life forever. But the most important thing here is that we break the cycle, and that means looking out for ourselves and our dc in the way that no-one ever looked out for us when we were children.

You owe your mother nothing. As for this latest, sick, pathetic effort to get a response from you, what adult response is there to that anyway?

Crossed posts with you Ally xxx

Of course you know your therapist better than us, and maybe you can use your feelings about the things you disagree with to "rage" at him and get to the bottom of why he is taking that stance.

I am off to bed Ally, hope you are okay, and that you get some sleep, and I will check back in tomorrow morning.

Just snuggle up to your lovely DH tonight and remember that your mother is your past and that your DH and DD are your present and future, and that is the way it should be.

Hi Pages!

Sorry it disturbed you too, but its great confirmation for me iyswim. And thank you for bigging me up (I can use current vernacular). I'm doing my best to pause and let it sink in...as taught by therapist!

The BDP thing is exactly what me and dh and others on here were trying to articulate. Our mothers are alike, both NPD traits and BPD...well one for BDP at the mo for my mother, I'm going to get the book you recommended. Really has boosted me knowing that tho. Its like I can finally put my finger on her behaviour and just what is so wrong with her. Big relief. I feel with the 'memorial' and knowing that she has personality disorder traits I can finally put to rest my trying to changer her/justify what I have done. I know you can use personality disorders as labels, but I see it as confirmation of my feelings after all these years. I don't see her as a totally bad person. She has done/will do good things but she is not a person, as a family, that we want around us. Nor do I want people ie dad and sister around us who will aid and abet things such as taking my mother in the car to dump my toys and help print out that memorial. Admittedly she could have asked for print of me then written it when no one was around and dropped it into bin bag when no one was looking, but my mother tends to be open about such things and how she is feeling. I just feel sick that she would do that. And this also confirms just WHY I do not want her having any pictures, at all of our dd. I could just see her lighting candles round it and making a shrine [sick feeling emotion]. I do think she can do worse than this, I think she could target my dd next with her writings. I'm going to finally take up my dh offer of sorting thro mail first. Frustrating but I do not want to see anymore of her sickness/toxicness in our house...

Oh I get the scapegoat thing only too well...my dad needs me so I can take my mothers flack which will keep her off his back. just what he was planning when I was heavily pg...'oh your mother isn't coming on holiday this yr as she says she will be needed to look after the baby, so i'm getting a tent and going on hols myself [big grin]' Thanks a bunch dad, just when you know how she upsets me and winds me up...just dump me again, at another such vunrable time in my life, just make sure YOUR okay. Selfish git.

My therapist did not say whether to respond...it was more a verbal leaning towards that way...iyswim. But he could just as well been trying to get me to cry...he does admit he gets frustrated when I don't...which is often (old habits die hard).

Really feel for you bout your mother and brother finding that and doing as they did...I know how cruel teasing can be...just want to die from the humiliation...and then to punish you for trying to defend yourself {{hugs}}

Your right, there are many many strands, I wish I could pin her down to one disorder and say 'there! that's whats wrong, this is why she does x y and z' but you can't...there are good and bad strands... some of which just don't seem to tally with anything...some of her behaviour is just so bizarre I don't think its written down anywhere.

Agreed there is no real adult response (as someone else said too). How do you go back to a person who has just made up a memorial of you when she knows you are alive and kicking?...'umm...surprise!!! I'm still alive, now can we discuss my experiences of my childhood please?' Sounds silly.

I do think my therapist has a personal issue at the bottom of all this. He just needs to own it, if he even knows it is there. Maybe his mother once did the same...

Thank you so much for your response Pages, helped as always x I'm fine in myself now, the main crisis was on wed after seeing therapist. Slept well last night (like a baby ) I would say it was entirely due to such a brilliant response I've had on here from everyone. I don't know how I would have gotten thro without all you guys giving me your support, advice, thoughts, everything...and all the hugs and towels . Just can't thank you all enough, now feel all tearful..your all amazing!

thankyouthankyouthankyou xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

Hi Ally, just wondered how you are doing today?

I have actually thought of an adult response to what your mother has done, and that is to inform the police.

It might sound extreme, but what she is doing is bordering on harrassment - she has ignored your requests to stay away and her latest effort has certainly caused you alarm and distress. If it had been sent by an ex-partner, for example, it would certainly have been a very threatening thing to receive.

I would reccomend at least keeping a diary with all the dates and times of her contact with you and what she has been told by you/your DH in the past about staying away.

The police always warn someone before they take proceedings and if you really do want her to stay away from you then it might be that being spoken to by the police might pull her up sharp.

Of course, there is always the possibility that it might "up the ante" and make things worse - only you know your mother well enough to know how she is likely to react.

Blimey, we've cross posted again!!

oo er missus! We're on here too much, turning telepathetic now

Coppers is what Attilla recommended too. Dh suspects they would take it as feedback, ie any reaction (even a violent one) is positive. As he says she seems to like being verbally attacked. She never took it too badly, maybe some tears, but anything for her is better than nothing. It shows that she still has the ability to get a reaction = I've got to her.

sorry as 'my mother has got to me'.

That's what I thought!!

Glad you are feeling so much better. It did occur to me maybe your therapist plays devils advocate a bit to try and get to your emotions. I have to say, I blub like a tap with mine so he doesn't have to work so hard!!

Anyway, he DID get you to cry and you seem to have benefited from it. You are even making jokes now about the memorial - a huge step forward already. I don't know if I would be doing so well. My turn to be proud of you, Ally!

"I Hate you, don't leave me" is by Kreisman and Straus, and the other one I'm reading is "Surviving a Borderline Parent" by Roth and Friedman, which is quite good, some of it has echoes of Toxic Parents, lots of practical advice in the second half on setting limits, forgiveness (if you want to), etc. which I'm not so sure is for me - but no "shoulds or shouldnt's" about it. (I personally prefer Susan Forward's advice not to forgive, made much more sense to me!) - but the first half about the disorder itself was really helpful to me.

Must get on, but am thinking of you lots Ally, and sending you lots of hugs and fluffy towels.