My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Are your mum and dad still together?

yes they are still together.

So how does he see her, Jenk? Does he really know what she is like? If so, how does he tolerate her? Is there any chance of her turning him against you? I only ask because my mother wouldn't let anyone in my family be neutral.

But then again everyone in my family(apart from me and my older brother)is still caught up in the web of denial, whereas your sisters seem to have her sussed.

yes my dad does know what she is really like but its anything for a quiet life with him.

i dont think she will turn him against me this time, for one im stronger now and wont retaliate and another he loves his grandchildren and knows that if there is bad feeling he wont see them much, the fact that he came up last night means he hasnt fell out with me.

as for my sisters -yes they have her sussed out and dont stand for the tantrums, im the last one she had control over and now thats gone, its interesting that over the last couple of years she,s been pretty much not around when ive been to hell and back with the kids but now that i have a new friend, thats what has kicked this off.

Hi jenk,
I just want to offer my support and mention how much I admire your calm reaction to your mother. I know I couldn`t manage that.

Pages, I didnt know your mother had smothered you so much. She studied the same thing as you?! I see this in my MIL (who I hate) and SIL (who I like) who is still childless at 38, blatantly because her mother wont let her go to live her own life, but that is not my battle- I have plenty of my own.
That is the one thing my crazy mother is not really guilty of as far as I remember.

my mum never studied the same as me but whenever i joined a weightloss club she would join and then phone me up to tell me how i should be sticking to the diet and i remember once standing on the scales and my mum saying behind me, "she hasnt done it you know, she,s cheated all week" to the leader and the leader looking at me with an embaressed look on her face, that was a competition she always had to lose more than me so in the end i stopped going particularly as she told me i was destined to be like her and just accept it.

well she,s wrong cos i aint like her........

Yes, the reason why all this was such a shock last year is that unlike your mother, Sakura, my mother and I have (particularly in my adult life) been really close. We have never ever fallen out before. She would be the first person I would ring with any problem and, to her credit, as long as the problem wasn't about her or the family (which it never was because I too was a co-conspirator in the family myth of perfection) she was really helpful and supportive. (I think now that it made her feel quite powerful).

But as you once put it, Sakura, we had to "share a brain". There was no room for debate, criticism of her or differences of opinion (but then why would I criticise her or have a different opinion? ). I was vaguely aware in my early twenties of how uncomfortable I found it, with her being there socially all the time, and copying me, but thought I was the "bad" one for feeling that way about my mother.

My mother openly admits her relationships with men were always symbiotic (which is why she doesn't trust herself to have one any more - her words), but I didn't realise that her relationship with me was the same, at least whenever she didn't have a man around.

My mother isn't and wasn't competitive in the same way as yours jenk, she really wanted us to be the same. Anything I did well she saw as a positive reflection on her.

And, as a child, so long as I was behaving perfectly and being a pretty and clever daughter, thus reflecting her in a positive light, I was given love (or at least positive attention, her version of love). The problem in my childhood is that whenever I got upset about anything or acted in a way she didn't like I was immediately rejected and given the silent treatment.

So I learned, in my adult years, not to ever cross her - until now. She used to say "we are like this" or "we don't like that". Individuality or differences were not respected. One thing I now find really funny is how she used to tell me my father was very black and white about things and it is a trait I have inherited, yet she is the most black and white person you could come across (although of course, "black" IS "white" when it suits her!)

It is so illuminating reading about NPD. I see now that I really wasn't a person that mattered (and still am not, not if she has needs that are greater), I was just someone to project her feelings about herself onto. I think they call it "splitting" whereby the bits of a parent's personality that the parent can't tolerate get projected onto another person (the child) so that the child will carry all the "bad" traits and the narcissitic parent can remain perfect. Scary stuff.

thats exactly what i was talking about with my psychotherapist-the projection bit, she said my mum has projected her feelings of whatever onto me.
i too never had an opinion of my own it was always you are like me,you agree with me and whenever i have disagreed i too have got the silent treatment but no longer.

it was suggested to me that she doesnt care about my being part of our faith or not, she also likes to play the martyr especially when she talks about her kids.

we used to be incredibly close, it was like i couldnt make a decision without her say-so. i totally depended on her for everything.

mine and your mum sound so similar pages-its scarey

This thread is full of great support, and I am really thankful for it. Was reading over some of the threads again, looking for advice basically. Very sad that there?s so many feeling the same about their parents. A lot of what has been written rings so true. Sorry for landing in the middle of the thread, but just had to get this out of my head. If it doesn?t make sense, sorry, I find myself typing as I talk, if you know what I mean.

I find it difficult putting down in words what I am feeling, worrying that I don?t get the right info across. Think this comes from my parents, and especially remember my mum telling me on my first day at new school, ?don?t take any problems that you have at home to school with you??, I remember not really understanding what she meant at the time. But I do now.

When you?re the small child how you?re brought up is ?normal? to you, you know no difference, but you do know that you don?t tell your friends you get a severe belting when , ?you?ve got it coming to you?. Heard this phrase again just recently it gave me feelings that I remember when I was young. It begins with a feeling of terror, a feeling of hopelessness, and a panicky dread of what is to come. But this time I will not receive the physical pain, just the emotional terror. These feelings have subsided since.

Not long after I had split from my parents, a lot of old feelings have surfaced again, maybe I am subconsciously exorcising my demons? One was when going to bed at night, I got a feeling of being scared to go to sleep, and even had to check under my bed! Now I think I maybe slightly ?off key?! I also and still do have the thought that I will be attacked by my parents. I feared going out the front door in the morning to my car, worrying my dad maybe waiting for me. I keep telling myself not to worry so, and am I as crazy as my parents? Another thing that has struck me and I think I have known this for a long time, I don?t love my parents as other people love theirs, don?t know when this stopped maybe it was when I left home, don?t know, then again did I ever? But this is one thing I don?t feel guilty about this. Should I?

My dad constantly talks about respect, but then he will dish out verbal abuse, and threatening remarks to myself and my DH. My mum, before the argument, that erupted colossal style as they usually do, was ok to a point, although she is very moody, and constantly complains to me about my sister. Mum seemed happy when sister parted with her husband, but then began attacks on my sister when they got back together? My DH even had noticed this, and the moods, and the remarks.

The day of the ?argument? mum didn?t even say hello when she arrived, she had one of her ?faces? on. Anyway all flared up, so glad my DH was here, he had to stop my mum in her tracks on her way to me mid shouting, and then also my dad. I took myself and my DS out of the house pronto to take refuge at my in-laws.

She was shouting she?s ?not been well?, she?s never been well, always had backache, leg hurts, arm hurts, headaches, stomach aches, the list is endless. On one occasion she had fallen over and hurt her arm, anyone would think she wanted it to happen, so she could be looked after. She did get my sister to ?look after her? when she developed sciatica once, sister had to dress her, be a gopher basically.

The more I write this the more weird my ?growing up? seems. But one crazy thing that stays in my mind that my mum had said, DH is puzzled by it too. It?s that, before my mum flipping out, the relationship with my parents was just about bearable, but exhausting when they came to visit. When asked to leave our house by my DH, whilst insisting she couldn?t breathe, she said, ?you won?t keep me away from my grandchildren, I?ve already looked into it?. It was the ?already looked into it? bit that we thought was strange, why look into access rights when there was no problem with seeing the grandchildren to begin with? DH said that it seems they wanted to see the grandchildren but without us being there? They are strange, I am not. Sorry for the long message, had to get some of it out.

xxx

Good to have you here Dottydog.

I can so relate to the whole you have to respect your parents, but apparently it does not work the other way around.

One of the last things my parents wrote to me was that I have to respect them and their way of life!!?

Also the whole I ran every little thing in my life past them before I made any kind of decision (read they made the decision for me because I did not want to upset them), to the point that I put them before my husband (one of my wake up calls ).

Funny you should mention that thing about checking under your bed, I suddenly found myself back in the routine of not wanting to put my feet down (from the bed) unless the lights were on, or I could not switch the lights off until I had both feet up in bed. It has eased off again now 1,5 years down the line.

How long has it been since you last saw them?

Hi Maisemor, Thought I was maybe going a little crazy with the looking under the bed thing. Think maybe the last 'steaming parents' episode, triggered a lot of memories.15yrs is a long time, I'm only just beginning my 'de-tox'. The last (and the very last as far as i'm concerned),flare up was only a few wks ago. Rec'd a lot of verbal from my dad, so there and then i told him that they no longer exist in my life.

Sorry to hear about your wake up call, hope all is ok for you now and your DH. Parents are so infectious with their meddling ways especially when it's mind-bending.

Never been able to become an adult in my parents company, constantly felt as though i should be seen but not heard.

It's shocking when you suddenly can see the wood for the trees, and your parents in broad daylight. I've been told by many friends, bosses over the years that I didn't have to put up with them, but I did. I even remember a conversation with my sis, saying that our mum and dad aren't normal, like other parents are. To which I agreed.

I think the respect thing is like their moulding of you, of how they are as people so therefore they want you to be the same. Individuality has always been a no no in our family.

Welcome Dotty, no your parents are definitely not normal. Well, I should say on this thread they are!!

Lots of similar themes running here. I too "had it coming" or more specifically, I was "asking for it". Funny that, don't remember asking for anything very much, least of all that. I guess I did always have an answer for everything, though, which didn't go down too well. Some things haven't changed . Seriously, maybe that's why I have to answer any injust accusation now, because where I previousy had to be silent I don't get a punch in the mouth for it any more, so can speak my mind.

I too have had an issue with going to bed at night for most of my life. When I was younger it used to manifest as insomnia. I don't exactly look under the bed, but used to when younger, and have had a recurring nightmare all my life, which has always made me uneasy at bedtime.

I do think there are similarities, Jenk - in fact was your mother actually competitive, or did she just want you both to be thin (ie the same)? I think my mother is secretly quite a jealous and envious person - one thing she hates is being left behind or left out of anything, hence having to be Queen Bee, with all her children loving her far more than they love each other.

Erm, I still now couldn't get into bed with the light off. I have a lamp so that I am in before light goes off.

Hi Pages, I've just had another skim through this thread, and i'm amazed on how so many people have had similar experiences.There's an awful lot out toxic parents there, and will sadly be a lot more to come.

But I'm trying to use my 'break' as a sort of 'breaking the cycle'.

I think 'breaking the cycle' has happened in my dads family before, a brother who decided to leave the family, but told no-one where he was going to, he also became a scapegoat.

You've reminded me of the dream i used to have as a child, it was like I had been drugged or something, and no matter how hard I tried to open my eyes all i saw, was a spinning wheel of colours,and some sort of noise.

Just had a feeling of fear and upset dunno why.I think i'm still scared to remember things from my past.It's like I've blocked a lot out, and am too scared to believe that it's actually happened.

Sorry if this is not making any sense.

Really grateful to have been directed to this thread by Ally, thanku. And hello to all. x

Pages, Yes I have a lamp by the bed, and always make sure i'm right under the covers before i switch it off. And have to make sure i can get to the switch easily if i need to switch it back on again. I find myself checking doors too, to make sure they are locked properly, and have an unhealthy obsession making sure all sockets are switched off, it drives my DH round the bend.

OMG started wondering if I have any other strange habits.

hello dottydog.

i do the same with lights,doors etc, always have done, what you said has got me wondering if its anything to do with my parents.

pages-thats interesting about my mum wanting us to be the same, i hadnt thought of that one, but she does and has always wanted me to be the same as her.

i got an email from her this afternoon, i havent spoke to/seen her since her outburst on sunday.

It was entitled :FAMILY

Jen how are you
how.s DH,s new job
how are kids
your dad has been asking when he is going to see the kids, can you come down this weekend or can we arrange a time thats convinient for us to come to you and come and see them.
mum
x

thought that was quite polite for my mum.
i am taking kids to see them tomorrow night, i dont think i want them to come here.

im just wary cos this could be the next thing she uses-the kids.

Hmmm, good title, Jenk. "Family" (just to remind you, as opposed to your neighbour who isn't family). Tread carefully, and beware. I used to see everything my mother did as innocent, and would always think the best of her. Now I am the opposite. At least if you are wary you are prepared, which you seem to be.

I too do the lights, doors, sockets thing. Have had worse, my own kind of supersitions, still have them (if I don't put those shoes away in the cupboard now, something bad will happen). Have discovered it is actually a mild form of OCD and I do try and control it now. It's all about needing to be in control of something, I think, where you have in the past had no control over your life, the unpredictability, etc.

I have realised now that most of my youth was like being in a car crash, never knowing what to expect next, never having anything solid, reliable and predictable, never knowing whether what I say will get a smile or rejection (or worse, a smack). I think it induces the kind of compulsive behaviour some of us have described.

Dotty, have you had any counselling? You sound like you have suffered similar trauma to me.

Hey Pages - sorry to have missed the funeral - would have been there "with bells on"!! I am so glad for you that you have made such enormous changes to your life and have found some solid emotional rock on which to plant your life. Your mother is never going to change, however much you wish it so, and every time you think she might, just repeat that phrase again. She is so deeply entrenched in her own world, that she will never see the light of day. Ever.
You, on the other hand, have all the control now. So you decide exactly how much power over your life you will still let her have - from shoes in cupboards to lights on at night. She is not an all-seeing monster who seeps under the door, she is just a sad and twisted old woman, so you can squash her into a teensy pile and put her in a box and in that cupboard - then go out and carry on making strides, planning your future and using all your energies to love your family.

Pages, I had counselling for my 1st marriage breaking down, it was the mental health nurse through my clinic.

It was ok but it felt as though they didn't really think I needed help. Or maybe I felt as though I was wasting their time, a bit like pretending all is ok and fixed now.

Or just like all our family arguments, next day it was if it never happened, but was used as ammunition at a later date, maybe yrs later!

There I go again getting off track again, avoiding the question, although now I do seem to know I'm doing it.

Have been thinking about it again lately,not sure how to go about it this time, have a new GP now. Suppose I could start there.
But i feel as I'm held back by being frightened of talking of my past, I know I'm writing snippets here, but it's the details, and actually saying the words, do you know what I mean?

The security habits that I have found that I have is everything has to be done in equal numbers i.e. it is not good if there is an uneven number of steps on the stairs I walk, I would have to take the stairs twice in order to make sure that I had taken an even number of stairs.
If signing a card it should always be with either two x's or four (or 6,8...you get the picture ).
I would not allow myself to walk over drains (eternal fear that something would drag me down in to them).

My childhood nightmare was always that I was falling and the fall just never stopped.

Do you not find it very, very hard to break the cycle though? I was trying to get my husband to understand last night, and I found it really hard.
I have been taught my whole life that only weak/worthless/stupid people don't get their way/don't win an argument.
I would therefore only enter into conversations if I was 200% sure that I knew what I was talking about and felt that I could "win" the conversation. Needless to say I did not have many conversations and still don't. Everytime though that I have a conversation or an argument with my husband I have to win. I can see that afterwards. I will do or say anything so that I don't end up having to be the one that was in the wrong.
I know it makes me sound absolutely horrible, BUT I am getting a lot better and as I said to him at least I am now aware, and I have ended up on a few occassions saying sorry and admitted blame.
This time 2 years ago, I was not even aware that I did this. Then this time last year it took me 1-2 days before I realised hey it was actually me that was in the wrong here. Now I sometimes realise midst argument or at the longest 1 hour after the argument.
I have never ever done this with my children, I am always making sure that I listen to the point of view, given them a chance to speak up. Funny how somehow everything is much clearer when I am with the children regarding my behaviour.
I am just very aware that no matter how much you say that you don't wont to end up like your parents they have ingrained so much of themselves and their habits into you, that you see/saw as normal for 30 odd years and as much as I am trying to change these habits, I would just like other people to realise that it is not just about realising that you do these things yourself. That does not change it. It is a habit for a reason. Realising you have the problem is a step of the way to curing the problem it is not the solution.
To me it is a huge step to realise that some of the habits they have given me, some of the way of thinking and reacting is not right, and to me it is huge that it no longer takes me days to realise that my behaviour was unacceptable. Lastly it has been a huge step for me to be able to say sorry to my husband midst argument or straight after discussion, as sorry is the one word that has been forbidden to say in my parents' household.

Yes Mai, ikwym when you say weak/worthless/stupid. A common expression in our house was 'you've got to show you're strong', in other words don't show what you're actually feeling, but if you're seen to be strong, then you will be successful. Absolute rubbish!!

And then there's don't u dare have an opinion, oh no how can you be right about anything. Again absolute rubbish!!

Understand the entering convos thing, but I won't speak up at all most times.

I think that the fact you're actively questioning any habits can only be a good for you. At least you are willing to accept change. And being positive about it.

I understand about being ingrained,my parents were v.critical, not just of me but family, even complete strangers. My DH told me once he was fed up of me critising him, (in a harry enfield old dad voice "you don't wanna to do it like that, you wanna do it like this"). I was so shocked I didn't realise I was doing it.

But for me saying sorry is something I just can't stop myself saying, always apologising constantly. I was always made to apologise after being shouted at, or hit.

I think just through reading some of the messages on this thread, there are people who are becoming stronger day by day, some are further along than others, and they're all right here supporting each other. And are able to voice their own opinions without being ridiculed, criticised,or made to feel inferior.

I'm only at the beginning, but so glad MN exists, and there's a loads of understanding and supportive people here. Well done Pages on starting what is becoming part of my reality check on my life.

Thanks Dotty, glad it is helping others as much as me. This thread was my lifeline last year when my mother first abandoned me, and it was all so scary still. It seems strange now, a year on, to think that I was so attached to her still, and that she mattered that much in terms of my own wellbeing.

And thanks Coolmama for your input. I REALLY know now that she will never change! Your original post has always stayed with me - the bit about my mother being "glued to the victim role that works so well for her" was in my head the whole time I was talking to her at our meeting a few weeks ago, watching her have her "heart attack" and trying to get me to "rescue" her.

Yes, you CAN break the cycle, maisemor. That meeting with my mother is evidence that it can be done. I will always feel that standing firm and unwavering, in the face of her anger and guilt-peddling, laid a new foundation for me in my dealings with everyone, not just her.

In talking about and understanding and recognising the narcissistic traits of our parents (not being able to say sorry) that we have inherited, and the opposing traits we have been landed with (saying sorry all the time!)- I think we play both roles - you are on the first step to changing things.

I too, because I have spent so much of my life feeling and being made to think everything is my fault, have taken that self-righteous attitude with DH that my mother does, whereby to say sorry is a weakness. I now say sorry all the time and easily to him, and to others, without feeling I have been shot down to nothingness again like I did when I was younger.

With DH, it has transformed our relationship, and with others I have noticed how less reliant I am on the opinions of others and how I am more likely to stand up for myself with emotional bullies. There is one I come across at work frequently who takes delight in upsetting everyone, not just me. I stood up to her for the first time the other day and she ended up apologising to me, and saying she was a bit stressed. My response was "Don't worry about it, we are all human", something which she doesn't seem able to recognise in herself - she expects perfection from herself and everyone else. I too used to be like that.

I am less defensive with my employers if they need to talk to me about something and ask that I do it differently. I take things less personally. I am noticing the knock on effect of finally having grown up and become an adult, and that it is a far reaching one.

We can recognise and understand the effects of our past on our lives as a tool to change, but we don't have to dwell on them. I say we should celebrate the changes that we have made! Every one of us, for instance, is a far more loving and giving parent to our dc than our own mothers were.
That in itself is more than enough to celebrate

Hi dottydog,
Hope this thread helps.
Your upbringing sounds a lot like mine- I was just amazed at your description of how it feels just before you know youre going to get a belting. ALso, the way your mum said shes "looked into it". I have to tell you that my mother did this. She started threatening me with "access rights", "grandparents rights" taking me to court. At first I was <span class="italic">horrified</span> at the though that she could get to my daughter over my head, as though my daughter belongs to her because she canT conceive of the idea that my life has people in it that are there without her "permission".
Then I was just more horrified that she wanted to excercise these rights when I had offered to meet her anyway.

Well, even now after being on this thread forever, I still feel validated when I hear that someone has gone through something that I have been through, so I really hope this thread can help.

But most sad of all, is that our mothers would want to do this.

But donT worry, there is no such thing as grandparents rights, at least not for the kind of thing our mothers want them for (i.e to use another way of controlling their daughters. I live on the other side of the world, maybe to be sure she cant reach me ?)

I don`T have much time now, its very late here, but I have to echo what everyone else has written about checking the switch, lights cooker, then often going back to double check the door is locked.
My mother did this herself. Picture this:

Im in the car on the way to school, about 8 years old. My mother starts groaning "Oh, NOOO, have I turned the hob off? SAkura, did I turn it off? DidnT you NOTICE?!..
..turning into a big argument before I start school with me panicking about the hob not being turned off all day while mums in work and i`m at school, thereby transfering the guilt of her negligence onto a little child. So if the hob is on, I would somehow in someway feel that it was my fault. To this day, I feel excessively responsible for things that can no way be my fault.

I also have the nightmares, am still scared of the dark. As a child, I was so petrified to leave my bed to go to the toilet at night that Id lift up the carpet and pee onto the floor boards where it couldnT be seen. Wow, that is a memory thats just come back to me now, Id totally forgotten about that- THe sheer terror I felt through most of my childhood that manifested itself in all these strange ways like this acute fear of the dark. Its getting better since Ive got married and I do feel safe here in my little corner of the world, but I still to the checks, and I`m way too much of a perfectionist than is healthy.

Honestly, go on hols for a week and come back and I have to spend half an hour catching up! Bah!

And by coincidence...you get onto OCD...must all be telepathic now...

MUST HAVE BOOK!!!!!

For all you OCD'ers!!! (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)

"Tormenting Thoughts and Secret Rituals' by Ian Osborn MD

It is BRILLIANT. Did you know that OCD is a biochemical disorder of the brain and it is treatable by drugs (anti depressant type) or by behaviour therpy. Or just if you have mild OCD reading the book. Suddenly I've just had a light shine on my life...I never knew just how deeply OCD effected my life until I read this book. It is so supportive too of moving on and how to ignore the thoughts. I'll reel thro some of my eg's to see if it rings bells with you guys.

Light switches/cooker off/door locked etc
Thoughts of throwing myself off cliff edge, out of window/under bus even tho not suicidal.
Stabbing myself (bit disturbing that one!)
Hurting other people
Crashing car
The list goes on, have much worse one's that those, but I find it too painful to talk of them. But have lived with them all my life without realising it is OCD.

There is a theory that it is a left over from our days as cavemen (or whatever!). In those days you would hear a twig snap, your mind would immediately start imaging scenario's...is it a tiger to attack me, another person etc...But now we take a switch that may not have been turned off, what could happen and the mind starts almost into fight or flight. So I suppose that is where the compulsions come in ie number counting (went from 3 to 4 to 5), touching door handle 3/4/5 times with no bad thoughts in head as I did it...it all sounds nuts I know, but OCD is not crezy behaviour...its just a disorder of the brain which can be treated. 2 to 3% of the population have it, its the most common mental condition there is (according to book).

Okay enough now...just so excited about it all, the book is already altering how I view things...best advice to frighting thoughts 'What a ridculous thought, but its okay its there, I'm just going to ignore it'. Obviously you may also wish to be rational 'well lights are on for hours in a day, its what they are designed for'. Fighting the thoughts can worsen it all...so ignoring is the best option. You still have to live with thoughts (very unfortunately) but things can get better! Even if you don't want the book read up more on OCD...because I've been shocked at what I thought was me having 'abnormal crazy mental' thoughts brought on by childhood abuse to be OCD.

Def enough now!

Dottydog (so glad you got here!) I am still frightened of my parents, looking for them in street, outside house etc. I think that is normal when you have such strong emotions regarding them. My therapist suggested I still feel like a child around them which is where the fear comes from, being out of control. Did you know you can also get post traumatic stress disorder from abuse? Look it up, could be some of your problem, esp when you don't want to even 'speak' of your abuse or think of it. I think a GP would put you on a waiting list for councelling, but I understand how hard it is to feel strong enough to say something to them esp with a negative response before. I really feel for you, you seem so emotionally battered by it all. More validation needed that you were abused and it is important for you to get help with the past? xx

Jenk, are we related? My mother does the emotional blackmail...never threatened to cut me off...she's too dependent, but trying to force me to do as she wanted...well done you for standing up to her. And I would take it as significant that she entitled that email 'FAMILY'. Yes I'm positive she means more important than your neighbour, she put it for a reason, but I think/feel she could be running scared now, the tears did not work, lets try something more subtle...about as subtle as a slapping with a dead fish in that monty python sketch. And that 'your dad has been asking' hmmm heard that one before, when my mother didn't want to clearly state what she wanted, she would use someone else and their feelings to get her way. Sometimes even the cats feelings. Anyway...I'd be interested to hear how it went yesterday? The way your mum does blackmail so reminds me of my mother...

Sakura - still shocked at you being so frightened you would pee on floor...If any of us were there with you at that time you would have been given a huge hug and turned on a little light for you to find your way to the bathroom. Feel so sorry for the child you were