My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Thanks, Meerkat. I am seriously wondering if she is losing the plot. I wouldn't mind if DS1 was autistic, it's not about that - he is a lovely gorgeous boy and I a love him for who he is, but why is she banging on about autism when he isn't autistic? She knows that because I have told her, she knows what his difficulties are.

It just infuriates me that she keeps not hearing what I am saying correctly, forgetting what she has said (she can't remember calling me a liar so is not going to apologise for it)and trying to deflect the whole issue back onto me, pouncing on something little I have said and focusing on that instead.

Would love you to say that bit about NPD being on her side of the family but I certainly understand exactly why your not going to do that!

I would be fuming too...obviously doesn't listen to small details such as what your ds's sn is, I think that is what struck me most. And the fathers side of the family...this is what my MIL does...anything bad...its the FIL's family dispite the fact her side seems to be full of NPD, nymphomaniatic alcholics...

Cannot remember where I read it...could be TP but it says about someone monitoring yoru post and calls so little touchs of poison re calls and letters are not reintroduced to unbalance the victim again. Not saying your still a victim...(one of my books was banging on about that...) but I feel with your angry reaction on here to your mothers letter, maybe time to rethink any contact at all inc xmas cards/bday cards etc? Up to you of course. But these little touchs of poison are unsettling you...is it a good thing?

Now go do some shadow boxing to feel better! Or punching pillows...or something...

xx

Feel much better today, but yes, Ally, these little touches ARE unsettling and I don't need it. I thought of sending a very brief note to say that I have said all I have to say and I don't wish to discuss it any further (as Coolmama once suggested, stock reply), send her some pics of the children to show that I am not going to shut her out completely and then hopefully she will let it go. I think she (unlike some of your mothers) is too proud to keep trying. I can do the superficial thing of cards and photos but on a very limited basis maybe a couple of times a year.

I have decided to have a funeral for my hopes and wishes about my mother at around , so will be back on later if any want would like to attend. but

Thats a really good point, ally, about the little touches of poison seeping back to you in drips. My dad tries this. Ive told him Ill only contact my e-mail (I was shocked at the rage I felt towards him at Christmas when I saw him, and he seemed strangely satisfied by it- as though it showed that I cared). Yet, he keeps finding excuses to phone. He phoned and left a message on DHs phone (he doesnt have my no) that his computers broke. Before, I would have taken the cue to call, but this time I thought, if thats true, then fix the bloody computer, dont go calling me and telling me about it. Sure enough, less than 2 days later I got an e-mail saying the computer was back to normal. He was suprised I think, that I hadnt jumped to phone him back like I was supposed to.

DOnt worry, Pages. If it makes you feel any better, my mother wrote (in the last letter that I was too ashamed on her behalf to write on here about), she told me that <span class="italic">I</span> had been born with special needs. "A special child" were her exact words. Okay, fine. I didnt know about this before, because "now the time has finally come" to reveal this secret to me
But then she goes on to say thats why her physical abuse is justified apparently. That was the whole point of the letter. It was shocking because it detailed the abuse that I had gone through as a baby (that I didn`t know about obv), but in a way that tried to justify she had done. How from the moment I emerged from her womb, I was out to get her!It was Very creepy to read and to see myself through her eyes as nothing more than an obect. She really believes I had special needs (maybe ADHD? who knows) then about what a great mother she was for not forcing me to take drugs for it like some other mothers she knew.

Okay, so apart from the fact that you dont blame <span class="italic">babies</span> for your <span class="italic">own</span> abuse of them. If I was <span class="italic">such</span> a difficult baby, why was she pregnant with my brother when I was 11 months old? Then less than a year after that, pregnant with another, then another, then another?! Theyre mad, I tell you. There`s no answer to it all.

OMG Sakura, I am but laughing my head off at the same time at what your mother wrote. Sorry, but it is quite quite mad, just so completely crazy, but also sounds like my mother, revealing her little secrets to me about myself/my genes. Drip, drip, drip.

Like your mother, my mother doesn't actually make any sense. Her arguments are illogical and tbh her letters are becoming more and more weird (a bit like the last paragraph of my last post - sorry about that, someone knocked on the door and I switched screens and lost it). I am seriously wondering if she is a bit mad. I have had long conversations with her (in the past) about DS1's difficulties, we even discussed autism and she knows that was not the diagnosis. Anyone who knows DS1 and/or knows anything about autism can see that that is not the case for him.

Anyway, I would like to have that funeral, there is a nice paragraph about it in TP so will lay her (or my hopes) to rest properly in a bit.

PS Sakura, you ARE special but sadly probably not in the way that she meant!

'a special child' Eugh!!! Something my mother would come out with that one! Special my arse! What an excuse for abuse! But like you said...to detail abuse to you as a baby and justify it...its making me shudder. I feel for you reading that, it would be hard to shake off what she had written.

And as for getting pg again when you were only 11 mths...1st time a mistake...2nd time, 3rd, 4th etc... did she miss out on her Social Education classes at school?

Also rings a bell with the special child bit...my mother explained her 'over protectiveness' on my having a hole in the heart when I was born...it was fine after 2 days...yet this explains her smothering me for the next 28 years after it was a problem

So Pages, are you typing as I type? I've just had a batter at the keyboard...cleared my head a bit. Looking forward to the funeral if that is appropriate...looking for tips...

Hi Ally, yes. Thanks for joining me! I'm dressed in black and looking at the coffin full of my hopes and dreams of ever getting my mother to love me in the way that a parent should. Just going to sing a little hymn now... don't know if any of you had a christian religious upbringing, but I always liked the hymns. I think my favourite is:

"The day thou gavest Lord is ended.." So I'm singing that.

Oh, and I'd like to follow with the Carpenters,

"Bless the Beasts and the Children. For in this World They have no voice, have no choice. Light their way when the darkness surrounds them, give them hope, let it shine all around them"

That one keeps making me cry at the moment.

Now just got to refer to TP again....

So the coffin has been lowered into the ground. I would like to say the following... (clears throat, a little tearfully):

I hereby lay to rest my fantasy of the good family. I hereby lay to rest my hopes and expectations about my mother. I hereby lay to rest my fantasy that there was something I could have done to change her. I know that I will never have the kind of mother that I wanted, and I mourn that loss. But I accept it. May these fantasies rest in peace. Amen.

(throwing a bit of earth on the coffin)

Now time for one more hymn. Erm, maybe the Carpenters song again.

That's it. Funerals are always quite quick don't you find?

But hope to see you at the wake!

So sorry for your loss

How do you feel now?

Thanks Ally. I feel fine actually. As you know it was actually a slow death over the last 18 months, so I think I have already done most of my grieving, especially when she cut me out this time last year.

I suppose there was a slight recovery when she then sent me that letter saying she realised what a traumatic childhood I'd had, and that is the only reason I was still hanging on a bit, and thought it still worth talking about with her. But even at that stage of our meeting a couple of weeks ago, I didn't hold out much hope. Which was good, because I was prepared and ready for another onslaught from her.

I am so glad that I did that, face to face with her. Putting it in writing was good, and felt good, but actually staying calm while sitting in front of her and seeing her face change from tight-lipped to angry to upset, and being faced front on with all her ridiculous illogical arguments (screeched or hissed at me!)and calmly replying to her with all the right answers... it was a hugely cathartic experience. Actually realising I wasn't frightened of her anymore was brilliant!

And now that's why I officially wanted to lay my hopes to rest. Closure, as they say!

Thanks for caring

I actually feel priviliedged that you did it on here with us...very personal upsetting thing to do. There again, you might get some odd looks if you did it at a graveyard...

When you read your first post compared to the one you have just done, it shows how much you have moved on. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for your mother. Your a much more...how do I put this, open minded, emotionally in touch person, and you have even been able to empathise with your mother...its a big achievement emotionally/mentally. And the fact you are not afraid of her anymore...I'm just sat wishing I had the courage to do as you have done! Would love to sit down and have all the answers ready but got a feeling I would end up foaming at the mouth mad as usual!

Well done for being able to get this far. Don't think many are able...your very unique!

xx

Aw, Ally, what a sweet thing to say. Thanks so much for the support.

It has been and still is a huge journey for all of us, and I am proud of us all. I don't believe there is a beginning or an end, there are just different stages in growth and we have all had our moments to be proud of. Even just coming on here and talking about it and knowing others have been through something similar is healing and brave and I honestly don't think my mother is one of the worst I've encountered on this thread, so maybe my task was one of the easier ones!

I have to say (maybe I just have to have the last word ), that I have prepared a response (hopefully rather than a reaction) to my mother telling her in a nutshelll that DS1 doesn't have autism, that I told her that out of empathy as a human with my own shortcomings not because I wanted to be rescued, and that I get that she doesn't accept my feelings as valid and there is no point in further discussion.

Unlike some of your mums she is more likely to descend into infuriated silence, but if not, I may get a close friend to filter my post. We actually discussed it some time ago and she offered to do it.

As for what type of (if any) relationship I have with her from now I will just see and act as I feel. But at the moment I feel it will have to be very limited, probably to cards at Xmas and birthdays. I really REALLY do not want to waste any more energy on her that I could be spending on my own gorgeous little family.

Told her that I had felt guilty, I mean, not that DS1 has autism. I have never told her that.

hey pages how are you tonight?hope your ignoring the loop de loop

Ha ha, fine thanks xxx.

Sakura, I hope I didn't offend you by laughing at what your mother wrote. I don't know what the nature of the abuse was that you alluded to, but it must have been horrible and heartbreaking to read.

I guess it was just that it was so obviously something dragged up out of her warped imagination and so completely off the wall that, after my mother's crazy behaviour, it induced a kind of hysterical laughter. Sorry

Thanks ally for the supportive words. Yes, its very similar to your hole in the heart scenario because its all about them emphasizing how theyVe given so much to us. But we were just helpless babies! But now we have our own daughters, and we know that what they did was <span class="italic">nothing</span>. Because giving love to a child is pure pleasure. So we know that to hold this against the child when they are older, and act as though youve done the child a big favour by raising them is ridiculous.

Pages, donT apologize!Ive just been away for the weekend with DH and DD so thats why Ive been quiet. Im glad youre closing the book on this part of your life. Please dont have the last word, if you can help it.Id love to ask my mother about the pregnant at 11 months thing, and all the other inconsistencies in her story, but whats the point? If they dont get it by now, theyre never going to. And its not the fact they get things wrong, I mean, for all we know, they know what theyRe doing and just want to upset us and hurt us. If you clear up the autism thing, shell only say something else that youll have to retaliate to because that is the name of the game. It fuels their fire. It drives them and gives them energy. Our energy! Theyll say anything to upset us. Im pretty certain your mother doesn`t have dementia or anything. She just wrote the things that would stab you straight into your heart. I think we should starve them of the fuel they crave.

Ok, I know what you mean, but I have felt so much better and even feel a bit sorry for her since I wrote my reply. I haven't sent it yet but I think I will. It has given me peace. It is very short, I have read it to a couple of friends, and they all say that it is very "adult" and gets the message across that I am not buying into her games any longer, and that there is no point in discussing it any further (that is the first time I have actually said that).

I honestly think that she thought in her warped way that she was being helpful and that it was a good way off brushing off what had happened and being friends again. I really believe what she is hoping for is for me to respond with "Really, is that the case? Tell me more about my dad's family then? Who is autistic? Thank you so much for stopping me from feeling guilty. And yes, you are absolved too, mum. Lets forget it all" (That's what I would have done in the past). But i haven't given her what she wants at all.

Knowing my mother as I do I think it will confuse her and make her back off. I really believe she is trying to reach out to me, and possibly even thought in her warped way that she was being loving. I think my response will confuse her becasuse I am not playing her games anymore.

I will let you know if I am wrong and you can all tell me "I told you so". But while I don't want her in my life anymore because of her games, I think I have enough compassion to realise that she really can't help how she is (no, she's probably not mad, but NPD is a disease of sorts)and not to ignore her completely. I almost feel in NOT responding I am indicating that she is getting to me still, if that makes any sense.

What JoGH said further down the thread is kind of how I feel, ie "Maintain a position of integrity and maturity. Then it is her loss not yours. But make sure you counter any bad mouthing of you with positive statements" "My mum hates it when I'm like this as it only emphasises her irrationality more and she has even said I'm not talking to her like I'm her child and she's my mother anymore. I'm not because I've grown up and I'm talking to her like she is a rational adult. Her problem if she does not behave like one."

I do enjoy now responding in an adult way to her. It's kind of good practice for me generally!

just thought id let you know whats happened with me and my mum.

As i have previously said i was brought up in a religious faith by my mum and am the only one of 4 children still practising, altough not been much recently.
this morning the phone rang, it was my mum she was crying, she was sat in the local park.
she said i need to know whether you are still part of our faith or not, and i asked why and she said she,s sick of people asking about me all the time, so i said tell them you dont want to talk about it.
she was crying heavily at this point and said she wanted to see me.

when she arrived she launched into this -i dont know what to call it, attack?
saying that i have stabbed her in the back, that ive dropped her in favour of my neighbour -who im very good friends with and that she has to decide whether to cut me off now as im not really part of our faith anymore.
i asked her why her love for me was conditional on me being religious and she denied it was, she said i had deserted her that she couldnt go on without me at her side , i told her that im 35 and she,s 63 and that i cannot depend on her and why was she not like this with my 2 sisters and why cant we have a normal mum/daughter relationshi?
she said it was her duty to remind me of my mistakes and also inform the ministers of our religion if i was doing wrong things, i told her her emotional guilt doesnt work with me and it wont work with my children either, she left saying she had to decide whether to cut me out.

i am so shocked, i never thought she would stoop so low, to sit in my house crying and flinging emotional stuff like me and your dad gave you everything you wanted (which is a lie) and to tell me she is thinking of cutting me off.

im so sad, but im glad i stood up to her

Wow Jenk, so proud of you! But sad for you too. It sounds like you really managed to stay calm in the face of huge amounts of guilt peddling and irrational behaviour. She sounds very co-dependently hooked in to you. But as you spotted earlier, no suprise there really as you are the eldest and female.
Her behaviour makes no sense, telling you one minute she can't manage without you and then threatening to cut you out - abandonment, engulfment, classic toxic behaviour. Did you find having read the book helped you?

Can you talk to your sisters? You mentioned earlier that they were "on" to her behavour and were supportive of you. You need all the support you can get atm, and to be prepared as she may well escalate her behaviour.

Will be thinking of you. Keep posting, we are here for you.

hiya pages, yes the book has helped enormously, in the past i would probably have fallen for this type of behaviour but yesterday i recognised it for what it was-toxic.

i spoke to one of my sisters yesterday and she said i was doing the right thing,not to be bullied and that it was time for me to be independent and she said if my mum went crying to her that she would tell her the same.

she said ive "dropped her" in favour of my next door neighbour who i am friendly with but she,s always done this, whenever ive had a friend she,s done her best to sabotage the friendship which i have never understood, but its left me feeling worthless.

"Dropped her" in favour of a neighbour? She sounds like she thinks she is your best friend, and you are both aged 10, instead of your mother.

My mother also tried to be my best friend (when i got into my late teens and after she had split with my stepdad), even started to study the same subject as I was doing at college and hanging our with me socially. It started to really needle me and I felt smothered but I never knew how I could say anything.

I remember My DH said to me a couple of years ago before this all happened that she had spent the first half of my life ignoring me and the second half trying to be my best friend. I was shocked at the time but I now see it. Any loving mother who values your independence would be happy for you to have close friends - other than her.

I am glad you have the support of your sister who knows what she is really like.

yes it is the behaviour of a child.
its just taken me this long to realise it and its very sad.

she will now sulk for england and try and turn people against me but i have a good strong relationship with both my sisters and my dad phoned me this morning so he hasnt fell out with me-YET.

she is such a control freak.

How you feeling now Jenk?

feeling better, had a couple of hours with my psychotherapist this afternoon who has put things into perspective for me.

she says my mum has narcissitic traits and that she appears to be very jealous.

she told me next time my mum decides to "create a scene in a park" not to invite her up to my house cos she is reeling me back into the emotional crap.

my dad came to visit today but i was out but he only came to give me some legal papers so he hasnt fell out with me-he knows what she is like.