My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

HI everyone. I met up with my mum today. She is never ever going to change and I realised it today finally. What Coolmama said on my last thread about her being so glued to her victim role and deep in denial is so true. How can she be honest with me when she can't even be honest with herself?

We both acted as though nothing had happened for an hour and she was bowled away by DS2. After a while the conversation just ran out. I have never ever been lost for words with my mother before, we have always talked and talked. It felt so phony to be sitting there trying to think of questions to ask each other that didn't touch on the rest of the family, or any of the things we had always discussed, ie thoughts and feelings, DH and my lives, etc.

I asked her if she wanted to discuss what had happened. She said "Whats left to say?" and I said well I have said quite a lot and you haven't responded to any of it. She basically said that what could she say after "that email" I sent her. She got really wobbly, I could tell she was furious, but for the first time in my life I wasn't scared. I reminded her that that wasn't the way the whole thing started, it started by me being called a liar, and it seemed very convenient to have deflected teh attention away from that and make it now about the email I sent her, so that she is now the victim and my brothers and sisters have to rescue her. She got really upset and said it wasn;t like that, denied she had called me a liar, couldn't remember saying it but wouldn't come out and say that I hadn't lied. She said so many contraidctory things, like that she still believed I had slpit up the family, but then in the next breath, that I was so blaming and it's not about blame. She said she thought I had had a good upbringing and that she had been a good mother and I asked her why she had acknowledged it to be traumtic then? She said it had been traumatic for all of us, not just me, and that she wasn't apologising for it. I asked why she could never say sorry and she said that would be to say she had made a mistake and she didn't believe she had.

I asked her if she would like to discuss "that" email that I had sent her (which is the reason why my siblings aren;'t talking to me) as although it was harsh I hadn't said anything I didn't believe to be true. She said that I'd accused her in the email of leaving us home alone and it wasn't true, a neighbour was watching us and when I asked her where the neighbour was when I ran out of the house (aged 5) in the dark to find her and got picked up by the police, she started screeching "I can't handle this, I'm going". Not before telling me that she still blames me and my brother for that incident, him for hitting me and me for leaving the house. That's whay we were punished. We were 5 and 6 years old FFS! She really doesn't seem to get that if you leave small children on their own without anyone looking after them, they will get upset/fight/something will happen and that it is not the fault of the children for fighting, it is the fault of the parent for leaving young children home without any parental control (isn't it?!!!)

She stomped off, and came back 10 minutes later and told me she thought she was having a heart attack. I told her to sit down and told her she was having a panic attack and that I'd had lots of them since this whole thing started. I swear that this is the only one of the toxic parent reactions I haven't seen before. She has now officially used them all. She actually said to me "I'm too old and frail for all of this" and I said "you are not old, you're only in your 60s and your health is fine - you just told me." It ended with her actually pulling herself together and trying to go back to the small talk. She asked if I wanted to take DS2 outside and I said no, I thought we'd head off. She has just texted me about a plant she gave me.

I am so completely and utterly proud of the way I handled it. I stayed in my adult through the whole thing, respnded logically, did not raise my voice or cry or do anything - it was her who went through the entire emotional range and finally when the heart attack didn't work and i didn't fling my arms round her and say "Oh my God what have I done to you!" she gave up and went back to the beginning again and began talking about DS2.

I suppose I am a bit gutted that it didn't go a different way - and astonished that she is still blaming me for everything (she told me that I had caused all this and had to live with the consequences of my email) but I am so so pleased that I didn't fall into the old way of relating to her.

Sorry for all the typos, writing too quickly.

Oh wow Pages! You go girl! Yes yes yes, that was BRILLIANT! I feel proud to know you! You handled a difficult situation with amazing strength of character... And you even got your mother to go back to basic's again...she had her tantrum and nothing came of it so back to normal. I feel that I'm talking to the parent of your mother, how sad is that

Hope there are not too many flashbacks to it. Sounds as if you said all you wanted/needed to say which is great. Loved your replies to her...sounded as if you had thought about things she had said and got the answers on the tip of your tongue. Not in a getting at her way but like you say, in an adult way.

How are you now? Feeling shaky now? Bit emotional?

allyxxxx

And as for leaving a 5 and 6 year old alone ....

Thanks Ally. I have been quite shaky all day but I am actually feeling a little elated. As it says in toxic parents, it is not getting her to see the error of her ways (will never happen) that makes you feel good, it is the standing up to her that makes for your finest hour.

I think that until today I wondered in part whether what happened last year was a knee-jerk reaction that she later regretted but felt she had backed herself into a corner so I wanted to give her an opportunity to come out of that corner and talk about it in an adult, rational way. I realised today - finally! - that this is NEVER EVER going to happen! She doesn't know how to be intimate, she doesn't know how to say sorry, she doesn't know how to be an adult! You are right Ally, I have grown up and she is still a lttile girl but she is not my little girl and I am afraid she will have to go elswhere if she wants rescuing.

I have for the first time in my life put my own feelings ahead of hers and I am sure she is completely confused by what happened today. She tried every tactic possible and nothing worked. She tried to be the superior and detached parent (when I told her that I was deeply upset by having been painted as a liar she said "I can see you are really upset" and I told her not to do this reflecting back onto me thing, this was something that she was responsible for) she then went into defensive mode, denied it had happened, then got upset and finally moved into victim - "how could you do this to me? -I'm old and frail" - and the whole time I just remained calm.

You are right, I did have all the answers on the tip of my tongue and that is not usual for me but I suppose I have you guys to thank for that because I have discussed it all so much. Also - and it don't mean to sound pompous - but i think I came out on top because I was in the right. I did have logical answers and she couldn't argue her way out of a paper bag - because all her arguments are illogical. Who on earth tries to blame a 5 and 6 year old for fighting and running off when they have been left home on their own FFS?

PS Thanks again Ally for your reply! I don't know where I would have been without this thread...whatever stage we are all at in this whole thing, the point is the support has been immense and NONE of us are alone.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Aww, well done Pages. Its amazing that you were able to do what you did. just camly answer her like that.
So the mumsnet mantra is "this is a phase, this is a phase"
And this threads mantra is "shell never change, shell never change" REpeat after me. "Shell NEVER change"
WE might be sucked in for a while on hope, but they arenT actually going to change. Im planning a visit to the UK in the winter. Ill probably not contact my mother because I am in no way ready to react the way you reacted to your mum. You just flummoxed her completely, but Id fall back into the trap. Our mums need to see us upset, you see, its how they validate themselves- that somebody loves them enough to care what they do. They need to keep pusing until we "give" and get upset.
I`m not ready for that

SO now you are stronger, and now that you can see the relationship for what it is, stand back and basically be the adult, do you think you can have a regular relationship with, or not really?

So pleased to see your name pop up Sakura. It is 1.00 a.m here and I am supposed to be at work in the morning but can't sleep - I am now coming down from the high and the reality is kicking in. You are absolutely right, my friend said on the phone tonight that she thinks my mum needs ME and that she can't bear that I don't need her anymore, and I honestly don't but I have had a few glasses of wine and am now snivveling a bit at the thought that she will never ever stick up for me or be a proper mum.

I know that she wants this superficial/regular relationship still and maybe that is better than being cut off - I don't know. But I don't know if it is enough for me while I know all the while that she is blaming me for everything still. Is it worth it at any cost? I certainly wouldn't bother if it was a friend.

Hey, we should meet up when you come over - forget your mother!!!!

"I know that she wants this superficial/regular relationship still and maybe that is better than being cut off - I don't know. But I don't know if it is enough for me while I know all the while that she is blaming me for everything still. Is it worth it at any cost? I certainly wouldn't bother if it was a friend".

Hi Pages,

Well I only have a superficial relationship with my Mum these days and that brings with it its own set of pain. They're just not interested in us at all because I'm not needy unlike them.

Besides which the relationship if you choose to have one needs to be on your terms.

You would not let a friend treat you like this, why should your Mother be any different?. Blood is not always thicker than water.

Not unfortunately surprised to read that your Mum acted the way she did; I think she followed the toxic parents script of reaction to the letter.

regards

Attila x

i read this after reading your other thread pages, and i really take my hat off to you. it takes colossal strength of character to stand up to a parent the way you did.

i doubt she will acknowledge what she's done - it's so part of who she is, she's been lying to herself for decades and it would break her to admit the truth to herself. sounds melodramatic but i wonder if she has a bit of narcissitic personality disorder? in which the prognosis for cure is very poor, simply because of the nature of the problem.

That's just what I thought Pages! Re meeting up with you Sakura! Just a thought!

I'm repeating your mantra Sakura...

And I meant to say Hi to Kittenbaby last night! How are you? Would be interesting to see your story, but only if you want to tell it of course. Hope your at least part way thro thread now . I'm fine at the mo, my mother seems to have stopped her postcards after I saw her last month? I only saw her in passing...maybe she has given up? Suspecting there will be a christmas card in post.

And Pages, wish I could have the buzz of standing up to my mother, but like you Sakura, think I would give her what she wanted still...no I know I would! One day maybe...
xx

Warthog, you may well be right. I have actually talked about this before on here, I think Sakura also mentioned it with her mum.

I am going to google NPD again now!

sorry pages - haven't read the whole thread.

from wikipedia:

if she has any 5 of the following traits:

• has a grandiose sense of self-importance
• is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
• believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people
• requires excessive admiration
• strong sense of entitlement
• takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
• lacks empathy
• is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
• arrogant affect.

i've dealt with a couple of npd people in my life - unfortunately i had to cut ties with them, one after 30 years of friendship. there was no other way

hi i haven spoken to my mum in twelve yrs so i know how u feel she abandoned me for her husband long story.my family has split up

Sorry to hear that Casper. Did she turn her back on you or did you walk away from her?

Pages....go you! Yay!!!

It was never going to go a different way, but now at least you have said how you feel, told her how you see it.

Good on for having the courage to do it. Something I lack greatly. I know I'd never be able to stand up to my mother without at least a few tears....good on you!

Hi Casper86, do you still have doubts about there being no contact with your family? Meaning do you regret that there is no contact with them, your family?

Do you sometimes wish that you had tried harder or done things differently?

Do you still struggle with guilt or self-doubt?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious if I will ever get rid of all these feelings. If cutting contact with my family will eventually result in me being the person that I always felt that I should have been (focusing on the positive and not always on the negative).

I do feel I am getting better but at the same time I still have days when I feel there is a long and rocky road ahead of me, that I am not sure that I am strong enough to handle.

Thats me too Maismor...but then I think how much harder should I have tried? if they were decent parents I would not have had these issues, and if I had addressed my issues with decent parents they would have listened...but they won't do that cause they weren't decent in the first place!...I go round in circles all the time about it!

I think that is my biggest problem though. I know logically that I did try my hardest, but they never even tried, they just threw more dirt in my face so to speak.

I just fear there will always be those days (evenings just before I fall asleep) that I suddenly wonder and miss having parents (I don't miss them if you see what I mean) that would want to see my children grow up, see me, see my little family and help create/share new memories.

My problem at the moment is that Christmas is nearing and it is my favourite time of year. I have always had this idea that this year all family members will enjoy it, they will all be happy and be content with their presents. There will be no tears, no arguments and no insults.

Also there is my sister who has decided she is going to have (yet another) serious chat with our mother (she is scared stiff of our father) to tell her (our mother) how they (our parents) make her feel (our parents siding with her ex) but that she wants to be able to use them as emergency babysitters.

I just feel that she and my big sister keep going back in the hope that this time they will listen to them, this time they will understand and say sorry. It is just not going to happen though (as their 20+ years of trying should have shown them).

I bet you it is going to turn out the same way as always. They are both going to end up crying and I am the one that is going to have to listen to what who said to whom and how they said it for the next month or so. I really hope that does not sound too cold or horrible.

I am trying to change this horrible situation and to get away from all its nastiness and they keep trying to shove it in my face. I am finding this hard enough to get through myself, without having to listen to them who are refusing to do anything "new" about it.

I have refused to cut my little sister out of my life, but it is mostly because she is going through a very messy breakup with the father of her children (they were never married), and I seriously think it would send her even further in to depression land. Both our parents and our big sister is siding with her ex.

I understand that your sister is in difficulties with her xp, however that does not stop you from having your feelings about being basically, dragged thro all the memories and recent happenings with your mother and father. Could you possibly say that although you are there for her re her xp you no longer wish to hear about your parents, you understand the situation for her is painful but you no longer wish to be part of the cycle of hurt and pain.

It can be done. You just need to realise that you and your feelings are as equally as valid as your sisters, no matter that she is the little sister and going thro a messy break up, she's an adult now, and you will still be there for her in important ways, but you want to live your life differently now and this is how it is to be.

I would say that keeps you and your feelings safe and still allows your sister to come to you re her relationship with ex, her relationship with her dc, work etc.

Having said all that, don't know if I could do it! But maybe worth a thought.

Ally, have a look at the other thread I started - "A parenting question - what would you do?" It is a bit like our multiple choice question and answer thing!

And it also shows that despite being so elated yesterday I still have my weak and doubting days and am not yet "there" (wherever that is!!)

I totally understand, Maisemor. I don't know whether mine or your situation is worse - my family is divided between those who think my mother is a saint and I am a liar (which is not a pleasant position but I am learning to live with it), and me and my older brother who no longer have any intention of speaking to any of them about it. You on the other hand have some validation for the fact that your parents are hurtful and self-centred because your siblings feel the same way.

I do know that I have had enough now, and am never going to talk to my mother about this again and that is a nice feeling but it is still a little sad. I think there will always be days when the old hurt flares up, but like herpes or giving up smoking, the feelings become more manageable over time. Your sisters really need to be told firmly that you are not "playing" anymore.

Look, lets face it, having our families is like having herpes!

lol Pages

Been reading it with interest!

Like the Herpes