My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Wow Pages, now I know why you were able to relate to my situation. I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation but do think that you have most probably grown massively as a person as a result of it.

Oh and can I just say...I grew up with an absent grandmother (she openly admitted to hating kids and always preferred my cousins!) and I didn't miss out on a thing. In later life she tried to build a relationship with me but a leopard doesn't change its spots and she is still a self centred, spiteful individual....way I look at it, its her loss!

Thanks for all your help in advising me Pages and good luck with whatever you decide to do regarding your Mother.

And I wasn't even trying to be funny...should give up the day job...

Anyway...just think you showed your vulnerable side there Pages, 'leave the door open...' your still hoping she'll change and become the mother you need My psychotherapist keeps asking how long am I willing to wait for my family to change... not answered that one yet. Do we ever give up hoping...anyone? Just hope that if she drops a comment you don't have a long imaginary conversation after she's left, with the usual 'WHY didn't I say that?!!?'. Still think if she does it, try the 'why' question, if she gets a strop on at least you've questioned her usually unquestioned behaviour she gets away with elsewhere. Let us know how it goes.

Myfairone, read your thread, glad I'm not the only one to have long imaginary conversations/arguments with the people in my head (ever do it in front of the mirror?...maybe just me then). Your mother seems to have been pushed out of place as no1 in your life. Time she got a grip. Try our new game...

My dd is pg with her first child and has invited me to all the antenatal appts. Do I:

a) without waiting for an invite go to the birth.

b) Take a step back, this is my dd and sil special time together as a new family.

Its fun! Try it with other nutty reactions of your mothers. Makes you see sense. a) what she has done, b) what you as a reasonable, empathtic, loving person would do.

And I'm really glad your brought up the 'daddy says'. Not mentioned on here, but you brought back the memory. Except I didn't allow myself to realise until after I broke contact with my dad that my mother often spoke my dad's opinion as if it was her own, and also did the 'dad's not happy' meaning she was not happy.

Anyway, sure you read my life story (you must be a fast reader), you will know about my mother turning up on doorstep on day 2 of dd birth, admittedly I had sent her a letter a couple of months before saying I wanted no contact till the second half of the year, it was April when my dd was born. And I had told my father she wasn't coming over the phone. And the shock to my system that my mother would forget the way you feel after labour, and the exhaustion and put herself and her feelings first... I know she was distraught but to put that on me when I had made my feelings clear on her being around me. Unbelieavable. And boy did I suffer trama afterwards. Didn't go out for 5 weeks, watched every car that looked like their's in semi terror. Dreaded the post and what it would bring. Dreaded seeing my father. Jumped when I heard the phone. Let alone the feeling I had done something terrible. Everything was so grey. And you know what? (sound like jeramy kyle now...) I'm bloody angry at her now for ruining what should have been a happy time for me and my dh and dd. And I won't forgive her for that...or should I say I can't forgive her? Anyway...your mother is at fault, feelings hurt or not, it does not matter. She should be putting YOU first. Your dh, discuss it with him, my dh was very supportive of my decision but he still gets 'antsy' if i even hint of getting in contact again. It is in defense of me and dd, something Pages has noticed too with her dh. Tell him your feelings and how you are feeling inside and how difficult this is. He really sounds as if he had been biting his tongue a long time and your mothers behaviour after the birth was the straw that broke the donkeys back. He can be there for you if you confide in him and he needs to confide in you. Then you should be able to show a united front to your mother and father and set boundries with them. It will make you feel stronger if you have your dh's support. Maybe you still feel the need to support and protect your mother? But, she's an adult, she does not need protecting by her own dd...she's big enough to do that herself now. Just because she acts like a child, you don't have to treat her like she is one, because by doing that, your giving into her.

Anyway to sum up my novel, hope I have not offended, and if I've misinterpreted or misread something...tell me...I forget what the original post is by the time I've finished ;) and to sum up (again) Its hard for you now. But what is harder, going back to her and letting her win this battle (and she will see it as one) or are you going to start as you mean to go on, make a stand. Yes it will cause arguments and upsets, but if your parents were reasonable you would not be going thro this now. I know you want it all to stop but is giving in to your mother going to help you and your dh and ds in future?...This is your life and what YOU WANT and what YOU NEED does matter!!

Really sorry for all your upset, brings back the memories for me, but for me they are just that now. I'm happier where I am now, even after all that strife at the time. It does get better

allyxx
P.S. If I were you I wouldn't go to your aunts for christmas, sounds dire. Tell them to stick the turkey.........

Haha, yes ally, the imaginary conversations in my head. The things I`d love to HAVE said...BUt theres less of them these days, fortunately, so I know I am on the path of the sane.
I loved your little game too, it really puts everything into perspective.

Your daughter is getting married. Do you:

a) Feel joy that she has found someone to love and be loved by, and take pleasure in watching her plan her big day, (perhaps even offering help when needed because arranging a wedding is so stressful)?

b) Get very angry that she`s not getting married when YOU want, and send about 30 letters detailing why your daughter is such a selfish bitch?

Sakura...can't claim that as my own! Talking in head came from Myfairone...she's going thro a difficult patch with her mother...she's the one who reminded me of it! Mine are not so often either now...tho they were the reason that I had insomnia from the time we started trying to concieve, thro entire pregnancy (not to mention for years on and off before that)...and all I got from mil was 'oh its just practice for when the baby keeps you up, ha ha ha'...ever feel like demolishing someone with the 'look' you give them? Obviously she didn't know real reason.

And as for your questionaire, how did I miss the 30 letters? I don't remember that from your experience, knew there was stress over wedding. You know you really are inconsiderate, fancy not getting married as your mother dictates, she did bring you up and sacrificed her life to you. Tut!

www.ascasupport.org/meetings.php

This has a good (free) downloadable book on being an Adult survivor of child abuse.

Ally, I love your game...think I may try it in front of the mirror

I don't want to hijack Pages thread here but there are similarities. I am so angry that this was put on me at day 5 of the birth of my son....and now he is one month old tomorrow and I'm still in pieces over it.

Pages, how you doing today?

ooh, now I haven't tried that one yet...I can add a 'smug feck you' look at the end of the questionaire

Your not hijacking, we all get support from each other, I've had a rant most lately cause I saw my mother...we take it in turns Or all at once if we are that way out

Have you thought about trying dh again? At the moment you don't seem to have any support. And support makes it a little easier. However I do remember how hard it was to get support from my dh for the first 4 weeks after birth...too busy looking after baby. Try to get some time (I know you'd probably rather sleep) to talk. Ask how he feels then tell him how you feel. And tell him your crying about it all day...unless he sees that? Dh is the way forward in all this. With his backing and support you can make your parents see you are no longer a child and a push over...and you have every right to feel angry and dreadfully hurt at the way they have treated you and your dh.
Sorry i'm being all forceful but its that or coming over there and giving you a hug!

xxxx

Just read your post on the original thread...think dadada has it right...alternatively try a frying pan if you can't get thro to him verbally

And took you to stately homes...

Yes not forgetting my mother and father were fantastic because they took me to stately homes. Oh the memories...

Ah, sorry, my last post makes no sense as I only got as far as Ally's (reprimanding Sakura for not getting married at her mother's convenience after she brought her up)

Actually I think it was Ally who went to the stately homes. As did I. I love Stately homes btw, but think on balance would have settled for staying at home and playing with lego and not being punched, humiliated and ganged up on. Maybe just me...

Myfairone, just posted on your other thread. I am great today thanks. I have to be honest I really don't spend much time thinking about my family anymore. Like you though at one time I spent nearly 24 hours a day having those conversations in my head and I meant to say on the other thread, apart from getting counselling, the other thing that helped was writing it down.

I would strongly recommend writing a letter to your mum, don't send it straight away, but know that you can if you decide to. I found that once it was written down it was no longer in my head and I think I'm right in saying Sakura still does it and others have done so too. I found it hugely cathartic. But try and make sure the final version is as "adult to adult" as possible. You can tell her you feel angry but there is a difference between saying, for instance, "I am angry because I don't feel you have ever...." and "You have been a manipulative bitch" (!) IYSWIM.

You are not hijacking - that's what this thread is for.I am so pleased to hear you are feeling angry. It is hugely empowering and shows you have moved on a stage from feeling weak and helpless. My advice is not to get into conversations with DH about it at this stage as he has too much of his own agenda going on. Talk to us, talk to friends, talk to a counsellor or your HV, and then wipe your tears away and go and kiss your beautiful baby and remind yourself how blessed you are. Your DH sounds lovely, btw, but just a bit hurt and defenesive (of you and him and baby) about it all. Every day is a new day and things, people and perspectives change.

sorry it's long!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's nice to know my family is not the only family who think's everything is ok but when you look close enough it has a lot of foundation missing.
I will start at the begining, mum dad three daughters:

1. dad: when me and my two sisters was growing up, my dad was a heavy drinker (7 night's a week), i did'nt really know my dad. He would come in early hours of the morning with his shouting and hollowing, wake us all up then demand we get up so we could see him because we had'nt seen him all day. (whose thought, not our's) Then he would be shouting about things (what about can't really remember) He would start on my mum demanding his dinner and all sorts of things.
2. mum: I used to think me and my mum had a close relationship but that as proven not to be true. When i think what she used to do i cringe. Well lets start, my dad would be shouting at her when he came in, then she would pass the buck to us, she would tell him about things we had done wrong (which is ok because when you do something bad you get punished)but you don't tell someone when they are drunk or when it has happened days or weeks ago just so he stop's shouting at you. Tha's my mum for you. It's only now i remember it because of what has happened in the family now. It is amazeing that you can just think it's not that bad. 3.I have wrote my own thead on mumsnet called family trouble!!!!! It is about my niece and what has happened to her and how my family has treeted her that i have remembered things. It was ally who told me to look on your thread which i did and i would just like to say i think you all are very brave and fantastic, I have only read about 30 messages so i am getting there. Thank you all for sharing your experiences you have made me relise family's don't mean shite if they hurt the one's they are surposed to care and cherish though and though thank you xxxxxx big hugs to you all. I was actualy brought up to believe family is everything.

Hi lisa! Glad you made it here! Thanks for what you said... felt quite tearful Think more about your past, I thought my dads drunken behaviour was 'normal' until recently. Then I got the memories too. He used to go out drinking 3 to 5 times a week, come back late, we used to hide away our pets if he had been out all day incase he killed them (with his rough behaviour). One night he went by my mothers door (they slept separately) late at night and she heard him talking about killing her. And this was mainly in my 20's and it still had a big impact! As a child I have memories of him being fun when he was drunk...but not in a good way. And I remember him coming home for pub on xmas eve when I was 9...and could tell he was drunk, again. He also used to drink at home...beer then a chaser of whisky if he was not going out. He also used to do lots of swearing which was scary as he did not normally swear. I just remember being extremely tense when he did this at 11/12 at night, oh and slamming doors of the fridge and cupboards used to make me frightened. Again in my 20's. So god knows what impact your fathers behaviour had on you from childhood. Sounds horrendous...very scary and as for your mother redirecting his rage too you girls

How's your neice doing?

best go now...

take care xx
Pages...thought you were also the 'stately homes' happy family brand...couldn't remember if it was you or sakura!

Thanks for asking about my niece, she is fine, as well as can be expected. Hopefully with mine and my sisters surport she will do well in life and relise not everyone are like her mum, nan and grandad. I have'nt told her i writing about thing on here, so i have to write when she is not around, but thanks to you all, it has helped me alot just to read about all of you!
It's funny but i did'nt relise how bad thing's were for us untill this happened to my niece.

Hi Lisa, know what you mean, it's weird how you can put up with being treated like sh**te for so long until something happens to make you see it all for what it really is.
Thing is, when it's all you know it's hard to see it as anything other than normal.

Can also relate to the drunken late night shouting - my real father was alcholic and had that for first 5 years of my life. It has a profound affect, but the difficulty for me is that the memories are such young ones that I wasn't able to make sense of them for years and they took the form of nightmares, which I still suffer from. I also years later had a very extreme reaction to a flatmate coming home drunk in the night and making a noise, found I couldn't go to sleep at night, etc. very stressful, still get upset if anyone other than dc wake me at night with a loud noise.

You too are brave and fantastic. I so wish I had had a lovely aunt like you too stick up for me when I was young.

Thank you pages that has really touched me, i fill i am only doing what's right considering the cercomstance's. I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT MY NIECE IS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Pages, I took your advice and wrote my feelings down on paper (well actually I have written them in the back of my breasfeeding note book as I carry that around with me everywhere...seeing as I cant remember which damn boob I fed him from last!)

Ally, I'd love that hug! Thank you.

Lisa, I am sorry that you had that kind of childhood but at least you have recognised it for what it is. You won't make the same mistakes.

It is such a relief to see that so many of us have families which arn't perfect. Its also kind of scary because I look at my LO and hope that I can do a good job of giving him an upbringing he can look back on with fond memories.

Do you know it suddenly dawned on me today that I am a Mum and that this wonderful little boy is my Son! Does that sound mad? I feel like for the past few weeks I have been on autopilot and now I am starting to see through the fog.

Anyone else find chocolate helps?

Chocolate has gotten me through a lot Myfairone .

It is such a nice feeling when you first realise that you are now a mum, and even better one is when you realise that you are not raising your child the same way your parents raised you.

It does sound as if you are doing a lot better. Well done to you.

P.S. I was the same with the boob book .

Your problem has been going on for some time. I have not read all of the dialogues -but it is evident that it causes you severe distress!

Accept that the problem is not yours alone. Usually it is shared and sometimes it belongs to somebody else entirely.

It may be the reflection of your mothers problems. A fear of failure. A resentment of commitment...

If your child has special needs then nobody can surpass your level of committment to a child.

Feel proud of that ... you have done it magnificantly.

Put people in their place because of it.

Create your boundaries - it seems that you have not done this?

Own your adultness.

Nobody can cross that. Then - you can deal with their short-comings and still love them.

It is obvious that you love your mother immensely.

She will love you too.

But she is still human. Maybe she was yong when you were born? Maybe she has hideous ideals about what life might have been like without chidlren!

Throw the net of emotional possibilties wide. See what you come up with.

Put the phone down.

Do not expect too much of her.

If she loves you - you will know it.

If she competes with you and is far too close for comfort ... you can only back off and wait.

You need her. She knows it.

You have to accept that you will never forgive her for not being there for you.

Places in our heart that we did not realize were there ... but we can find them.

"Pull yourself together". Let her join - or not.

Set your boundaries. There is no other way with this.

You have to face reality.

Wait. See. Hear. Think ... let them know you are at the end of tolerance ...

Then ... just give it what you got girl! Get out! Get on! Get rid ...

Move ...on!` Accept nothing less than you deserve. Pain is a part of life.

Forest Fern has all of Dr. Phil's lingo down pat!

Hi Forestfurn,
Theres some mixed messages in your post, but I know you mean well. The problem is that when it comes to abuse from a mother, all pop psychology about forgiveness, and everyone being human flies out the window because the pain is beyond what we are designed to cope with.
How is your relationship with your own mother? It would perhaps be helpful to write your experiences and how you dealt with the problems.

That is a lot of statements FF !!

Hi,

I originally posted this in Femail and was recommended to post here. Having read some of the previous messages I think I am in the right place.

Will try not to make this too long but I have always had a difficult relationship with my mother. She was physically and mentally abusive as I grew up and I was terrified of her for most of my life. Even as an adult I would cry whenever I had to visit her although she had of course stopped being physically abusive towards me as an adult though this was only after I stood up to her at the age of 19. As my husband says with her being the type of person she is she would still be doing it now if I allowed it. The only way to have any sort of pleasant relationship with her is to never disagree with her under any circustances. If you do you receive the silent treatment and black looks done as obviously as possible so that other members of the family can see. When you are not around all members including those in the extended family will be told about you and what an awful, cruel, selfish and immoral person you are. For this reason I hardly have any relationship with my Dad and nothing at all with any of my aunts, uncles or cousins. Throughout my life my Mum has cut me off from my family for periods of anywhere between 6 weeks to two years. These silences are usually ended by me eating humble pie. Though to be fair she has ended them on occasion.

For the last three years my Mum had been making my younger sister's life as difficult as possible and I, to my shame just kept my head down because I could nt be doing with the hassle quite simply. Her attitude towards my sister even pretty much took over my sisters wedding and in the wedding photos you can see my Mum looking disgustedly at my sister (promise I am not making this up!). Finally got tired of it and stepped in and have now of course been made the scapegoat and no one not even my sister is now talking to me.

What makes this different is that I now have two small children of my own and my Mum is up to her same old tricks and along with me is ignoring my kids having built up a good relationship with my eldest. He often asks after his grand parents. My youngest is one year old and my parents have had no contact with my kids since she was 5 months old. I have been able to deal with this all my life for myself but the thought of her cutting off my children when they are old enough to understand or even telling my kids horrible things about me and their Dad just kills me.

What has brought it to a head is that a birthday present arrived for my youngest this morning and this just another repeat in the pattern. Silence until a birthday or Christmas and then I ring to say thank you for card/present and we all shake back down together with Mum again on top. I feel that I must put a stop to this now that it is beginning to affect my children but I just don t know how to do it . My husband is really angry at how it is affecting our kids and me and wants me to put a stop to it once and for all.

I really need some advice on how to change this pattern or even just to hear if anyone else has been though anything similar with their parents and how they dealt with it. I dont even want to give the gift they have sent to my daughter because I actually feel physically sick when I look at it, but at the same time I don t want to take the huge step of severing all contact on behalf of my kids with their grand parents. I don t know if I have that right. I should add here that I still have concerns that my Mum could be violent. I have seen her attack my Dad and the family dog and she told me once that she thought that she might hit my sister with something and end up killing her. I have warned my sister of this.

I would be grateful for any advice or thoughts on this. The thought of my kids being exposed to all this makes me feel ill but to say that they can have no relationship with their grandparents is a huge thing. I suppose that I just don t trust my own judgement.

Thank you for reading this as I know it is very long but believe me this isnt even half of it!!!

A x

Hi Amethyst

First welcome to mumsnet glad you found this thread!

Okay, that is a lot to take in, not critising, bet you felt better for it. (Done it more than a few times myself )

So, does anyone else/has anyone else treated you like this before?

If they did, what would you do?

What actions would you take?

Would you take your children to see them?

And these questions DO ALL APPLY TO YOUR MOTHER. Just because 'she's your mother' does not mean you can let her treat you like this. Your dh is right to be concerned. I can well believe you being terrified of your mother, of crying before 'having' to visit, of feeling physically sick at recieving a gift for your well loved child, from a mother who has not loved you as she should have done.

Have you been for counselling? That should be a first step, get yourself more support. I'm going to recommend two books (get this first one in before everyone else...I must read it...) Toxic Parents by Susan Forward (seems to be a bible on this thread )and my personal recommendation Divorcing a Parent by Beverley Engel. Title is quite intimidating I know, but it works on resolution, how to talk to a parent about their behaviour, how to 'emotionally' divorce, how to separate temperaraily, and how to explain to your children why they don't see their gp anymore. Lots of advice and support in there, I go thro saying 'ooh that is so true!' very validating.

Your situation is difficult, but lay your foundation stones right first. Get extra support (counselling), read our stories, read some self help books for validation (when you read that its all been done before such as evil looks and isolating children from family its a real 'wow' factor in your head!) and keep some distance from your mother for the time being as you work out what to do. But as a final point, I would strongly suggest you don't take your children round, she sounds unstable with her behaviour to your dad and dog. And the threat to your sister. She may be a gp but she has to EARN that position of TRUST. Someone said on another thread (thanks for whoever said this!) your child needs you as their mother, who heard of a child being damaged being without a grandmother? I have broken all contact with my mother at 8mth pg and even tho she was 'only' emotionally abusive we will be considering very carefully when our dd is emotionally ready for contact with my mother.

Anyway best go...keep retyping my response!

Heres an bit from Divorcing a parent by beverley engel (all her words not mine...don't get me for copywrite!)

"As radical as divorcing a parent may seem, it may sometimes be the only way to break out of the role of being a victim to your parent. If you have been waiting all your life for the day when you can escape from your parents tyranny, there is no better time than the present. The chains that bind you are not as strong as you have been led to believe. If you use all your strength and all your will, you can break those chains and escape to a new life - one where you are not bound by your parents desires, demands, expectations or rules and where you can be free to become your real self. That self is not the person your parent wants you to be, but the person YOU want to be.

You don't have to forgive the unforgivable, you don't have to 'live with' the unlivable, and you don't have to remain the captive of a parent who is tyrannical, controlling, critical, abusive, crazymaking, negating or neglectful. You are free to do whatever you feel is best for you,including divorcing your parent.'

Again, beverley engels book...divorcing a parent...no i'm not being paid! That was the paragraph that did it for me. Could be scaring you tho amethyst...but its a way to break free from the contiuous pain to a place where you can look back to past pain but in the present is peace?

You do what is best for you.

xx

'

Oh good lord its a novel again!