My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

Ally, I meant to put at the end of my message yesterday, how are things with your mother? Have you had any contact recently?

Sugar (agree with Mhamai about your name, it doesn't suit you ) - your post is incredibly brave. The fact that you can see that things have gone wrong, are admitting it and having family therapy is a huge step in the right direction. Like Sakura, if my mother acknowledged she had a problem, that she had behaved inappropriately and hadn't mothered me in the right way, I would forgive her and I could repair the damage she's done to me much more quickly. Don't underestimate the power of saying sorry and of being honest with your children. If my mother said to me something along the lines of "I'm sorry I have constantly criticised and bullied you, manipulated and controlled you and undermined your self-esteem. I realise now I did this because it's what my mother did to me, and I couldn't break the pattern. It's not your fault and I didn't mean to hurt you. I'm so sorry" it would make a world of difference to me, to my ds and my siblings. I'm pretty certain my mother will never say anything like this, but you are in the position where you can really help your children and yourself through honesty and apologies. It takes courage, but the fact you've posted here shows you have that.

Sugar, cross posted with you just now. Can the family therapist refer you on to someone to talk just about you, as well as having the family therapy? She's obviously identified issues through your family therapy and surely unless you're able to address your own issues the family therapy can't really move forward properly.

Yes, from what you say your behaviour has been toxic, but it's not something from which there's no going back. As I said in my last message you can go at least some way to fixing this. I read a book by Alice Miller recently in which she cited an example (I can't remember the whole story in detail, so forgive me if this is a bit vague) of a man in his 20s who had suffered from severe depression and had made several attempts at suicide. He said he'd had a wonderful childhood but then his mother went into therapy and started discussing with him what a bad and "toxic" mother she felt she'd been to him. At first he was angry that she was destroying the memories he thought he had of his childhood, but over time he came to realise that she was right. His depression apparently lifted and in the end he had no need of further therapy because his mother's ackowledgement of what had happened seemed to fix everything.

You sound very stoic about your mother, and it sounds like there is a pattern of "distant" mothering with your mother and her mother. I'm not a therapist and don't want to say the wrong thing, but you deserved to be hugged and be shown affection and you weren't, for whatever reason, and you have a right to feel sad about that, and to feel sad that it made you into a mother who in turn wasn't able to show affection to her own children and now you're being a caring and responsible enough mother to be trying to fix this for them. The patterns don't need to be perpetuated and you can change things for them and for yourself. Sorry, this probably isn't nearly enough help but I must get ds to nursery! Has the therapist recommended any books for you to read? There is so much out there that is incredibly useful.

Thanks again

I have a lot to thank all of you for.. I read this thread from beginning to end and identified with all sorts of things which led me to question myself and my whole life. There's an awful lot more which I haven't posted but what I'm doing now is writing things in a notebook as they occur to me in an attempt to try and make sense of them all, even if it means in future I'll have to ask my mum or other family members if they remember things as I do.

Don't get me wrong, I have a good relationship with my children, we can talk about almost anything and they do confide in me if things are worrying them and we do fun things together.. we have a lot of laughter in our house but if they try to hug or cuddle me, I just stiffen up and feel really uncomfortable with it. My daughter is really badly affected by that as it makes her feel rejected and unloved.

I will talk to the family therapist about a further referral just for me next time I see her cos I think this mess is too deeprooted for me to fix by myself, but I am determined to fix everything and make up to them for my mistakes of the past, present and no doubt the future too.

I really really need to thank you all for making me recognise that somethings need to change.

Hi Bearsmom, nothing but a bday card for dd. I can handle that, into the loft it goes! You don't sound to be having a comfy pregnancy tho. I feel for you...I had nausea (not physically sick tho) and that was bad enough. As for your mother and telling her bout pg, I'm not yet but I was pondering the question of what to do this morning...! Thought of telling uncle to pass it on when I am...but somehow a bit chinese whispers...I don't know...difficult one that.

Sugar...you are so brave. You are not toxic. If only my mother would be so honest. Sounds like you could do with your own therapist too. I think acknowledgement and apologies will go a long way to healing your dd. But I really feel (personally) you need extra support to get thro this to be strong enough for you both. Keep coming to this thread, its nice to be round someone who can be a big enough person to admit to all you have. (feeling all sniffy now)

Sakura...In my first phone conversation with therapist arranging to meet up..."No can't do 3, I'm at work, and besides I don't want someone seeing me go in THERE...they'll think I'm a nutter ha ha ha". Was I ever that crass?!! Yep! And in first meeting 'I'm here because of grief and I think some emotional abuse but its not that bad..." and for the first year I kept wondering why I still went, cause I was 'okay' compared to other people who had been 'properly' abused ie physical and sexual...

Anyone else embarressed about therapy?

xxxx

Message withdrawn

danae, I have been there where you are now, and I think many women on this thread understand and can empathise with you.

Okay, now what is rock bottom? I would say rock bottom is your daughter going into care, so anything is better than that. Your mum is the one who has got you into this state. You must cut her out of your life now. Its a very very scary thing to do. THey say that "change" is the scariest thing for a person to do.

Try to imagine what kind of life you want: YOu and your daughter laughing and joking and baking cakes in the kitchen for example.

So then you realise that cutting your mum out of your life is one of the steps you are going to have to take to get to that happy picture.

Now Im not a therapist, but I can help you through this by coming on here everyday to encourage you because Ive been where you are. Please call the Samaritans or a therapist or anyone, because when you chat to someone, you feel a million times better. I had my grandmother to talk me through this difficult time.

Your mother is not an amazing, powerful person. Shes an ageing person with a brittle body and a brittle soul. She seems scarier than she is to you because you remember her when you were a little girl and she was bigger than you, and more powerful than you. Well now she isnt. She`s your equal. Your life is more important than hers now, because you have a chance to save your DD from this pattern.

I know I sound pushy, but its because I know that it works. But you need some kind of support to help you through. If you look at me now, compared to how I was before youd be amazed at the difference. Im not going to pretend its easy. Its the most difficult thing Ive ever had to do in my entire life. I was basically standing up to a bully, but someone who had bullied me my whole life, and someone who knew me inside and out and knew all my sensitive spots. I just wanted to die, or I thought that my life would definitely be better if my mum was dead, because then at least no-one would be making me miserable. But this isnT true. Its a long process- Im about 2 years down the line after standing up to her, but my God, the difference in me is amazing. Im not angry as much anymore. I used to spend days in bed, or Id go to bed at 4 a.m. Id spend hours staring at the wall. I cut myself when I was little, but not during this time for some reason.
What happens when you cut them out, is that the control is put back firmly into your hands. Youre not trying to control your mum. You just want control over your <span class="italic">own</span> life, and this is a perfectly acceptable thing to want. Everyone has the right to respect and privacy. COnsidering your mum is the person who is supposed to me <span class="italic">looking</span> <span class="italic">after</span> you, I donT think respect and privacy is too much to ask.

I broke off contact without making a big thing of it. I just stopped replying to her, stopped picking up the phone. IT drove her crazy, and she got worse and worse, and threw ever weapon she had at me, but I never gave in. I stood up to her.
Be strong. Just try to imagine that your daughter is you (this is what I do), and then I try to imagine how I wanted to be treated when I was little. When I treat DD well, I feel like I`m healing myself.

Sorry, I just read that you are seeing a therapist. Well thats brilliant then. The thing is, the therapist might not have had to go through what you are having to go through, so the therapist can`t do it for you or tell you what to do because its always your choice. But the therapist is there for you, to talk you through it.

Danae...oh god I'm in tears for you. Cut her out, you cannot go on being drained emotionally by her, use the anger to stand up to her. You ARE NOT A TOXIC PARENT. Your not...you can be better just by the fact you are TRYING to be better for your daughter. Have not got time to look but didn't someone drop a link onto here for the voluntary people who come round and chat to you? Anyone remember seeing it?

And as for 'something bad' happening. Why do you think that, ask the therapist to spend some time on it with you. I've had the exact same thing, something bad to me, to dd, to dh...pictures in my mind of what would happen because I've been so evil and bad as to cut my mother out of my life. I was a mother figure to her at times and it did feel like I was leaving a child. It was a very black time for me. But a year later I'm okay, not great but I'm getting some control over my thoughts back. You are NOT a bad person for wanting your mother out of your life, she's slowly killing you as a person. Speak to your therapist, a book I used and cannot recommend enough is 'divorcing a parent' by beverley engel. Send a letter to her telling her you cannot be around her right now, a separation, if you cannot face the final hurdle yet. Just get her off your back. Get dh to screen post for you. Change your phone number too.

We're all here for you, if you get mad round dd, give her a kiss and hug, pop her in cot with toy and just go bang a pillow or something! (I use that method when the going gets tough...!)

I don't know what else to suggest, apart from what Sakura suggested.

hugsxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Danae, I'm worried about you. I've just re-read some of your earlier messages, and I can see you have practical reasons for maintaining contact for the moment but it's obviously having a devastating effect on you. I know all the things she has of yours are important to you. Could you somehow get as many of them away from her and into storage somewhere? And if you can't should you think carefully about whether they're really more important than your safety and emotional health, and your DD and DH?

I wouldn't want you to feel pressurised on this thread, as it's somewhere to come to feel safe and supported, but I agree with Ally and Sakura that you have to cut your mother out of your life, even if it's only temporary and you don't explicitly tell her that's what you're doing. You need to get some distance from her and to reject/avoid any contact she tries to make.

You mention you're tired. IME exhaustion is a terrible thing. It's not that you're a bad mother, you're just knackered. I felt exhausted and slightly mad for a large part of ds's first two years and I wondered if I'd ever feel happy again. I used to be up in the night with him and end up banging my head hard against the walls or the doorframe in frustration and self-loathing, feeling like I was useless (I know this ties in with how my mother made me feel about myself, but exhaustion amplified it dramatically). Now he's four, I am so much happier, mainly because I'm fairly well rested most of the time, and it's been this way for the last couple of years. It's much easier to deal with all the stuff life throws at you when you've had enough sleep and aren't dealing with all the stresses of a very young child. Could DH or someone else you trust look after DD for a while so you can just sleep? If you can find someone to do this for you, mentally shut out everything, nothing is more important than taking care of yourself so you in turn can take care of dd. sending lots of positive vibes your way. So sorry things are so tough for you at the moment.

Am dreaming of a remote, uninhabited island to which we can teleport all our awful mothers and they can lay into each other and leave us alone.

Hello

just wanted to add my support to the other posts. danae you are not a bad mother. Have you made any close friends with other mothers? It sounds like you haven't as otherwise you'd know that we all have times like these, we all lose it with our dc sometimes, and we all need someone to lean on most of the time - even those with lovely smily normal mothers. All the other suggestions are spot on - try to get some rest, try to get some time off, and talk to your therapist. I cut off contact with my mother for about 6 months when my dd was 4 months old because I couldn't cope with her as well as the demands of motherhood and it was the best thing I ever did - I was so happy my dh was shocked as he thought I would be racked with guilt. (unfortunately I got back in touch and the whole thing happened over again but that's another story). You need all your strength for parenting a baby, so you can't allow your toxic mother to take any away from you.

The only other suggestion I would make is to try and make some closer friends that you can talk about this sort of thing with. What about the NCT in your area? Or the meetamum association, or netmums meet a local mum board? It does take time to get to know someone well enough to talk about this sort of stuff, but it can be relaxing just having people to meet for a coffee even if you just talk babies. NCT also run a register of people who have gone through different experiences - don't think having a pyscho mother is on there, but PND probably is, and it might help to talk to someone who's gone through that?

Sugar - as the others have said with that level of self awareness you are not a toxic parent. I hope your therapy helps and admire you hugely for facing up to putting things right.

YEs exactly! ALl your mothering has to be focused on your baby now, not on your mother. You have nothing to feel guilty about because you need someone to mother you at the moment. Obviously you dont have that, so the next best thing is to stop mothering your mother. Shes not a child.
I realised finally, that my whole life, I and other people had been "helping" my mum treat people like shit because we kept letting her get away with it. You wouldnT let a 4 year old get away with it, so why a 60 year old (or whatever age)? My mum <span class="italic">had</span> to finally realise that there <span class="italic">are</span> consequences for her actions. That you cant do what you like to people and then the next day think its all okay again. THats not life! Thats living with the fairies.
I totally agree with Ally about changing your phone number. I was going to suggest changing your address too, although moving house is stressful. But it would give you something to focus on. Bearing in mind, that anything is better than your baby going into care, which is what your mum is pushing you to feel like doing.
Also, you should never tell your mum your new address...ever. If you ever meet up with her eventually in the future, it should be at a neutral place- a pub or a cafe.
I moved accross the world, and at the time it didnT feel far enough (because she was in my head of course). But also for practical reasons too. My mum is the kind of person who <span class="italic">would</span> turn up at my place and scream the place down and embarrass me in front of the neighbours, and try to spoil the nice calm, "middle-class" , ordinary, boring life that I am trying to create for myself. She loves drama and crises, but I dont want to live like that. Now I know she can`t do come here, I do feel better.

Ask your DH about moving. ITs a headache, I know, but its also fun. Your DD is not at school, so you really dont have much to lose. You dont have to move far.

Message withdrawn

danae, I haven't spoken to my mother for 14 years. It gets easier, but you still wonder 'why me' at times.

I did it for lots of reasons, and only realised how bad the relationship was & how much it lacked when I held dd for the first time 3 (nearly 4) years ago. I looked at her and wondered why my mother didn't/can't love me, all babies want is love, surely?

I don't usually say 'cut her out' easily because I am only to aware how much I want a mum, but in your case I can see nothing but good coming from it. Once you are back on control, the depression may lift, you may stop cutting yourself, you will sleep better...so much positive from such a negative...you an do it....

The fact that you worry so about you LO tells me how much you love her...do not do anything rash until you are through this. She needs YOU not care, she needs her MUMMY...remember that feeling...because I know YOU feel it, don't make her feel it too!

Sakura, you said 'I cut myself when I was little, but not during this time for some reason'...You know ehy you didn't need to resprt to cutting when you cut off your mum...YOU HAD CONTROL, there was simply no more need to cut.

You know why you didn't need to resort

lol bearsmom!

Danae, did you know that during the war the Japanese used sleep deprivation as a form of torture? When I'm sleep deprived (first 6mths dd slept thro, 2nd 6 mths...2 to 4 times a night waking...) I feel 'underwater' (good description) I feel isolated from friends and dh, angry at dd for waking me, angry at dh at sleeping thro it, depressed, everything is just too much effort ie doing dishes, going out, speaking to other people, end of the world is nigh nightmares of 'bad' things happening. Everything that is not right in my life comes out. And that is enough to cope with alone. And on top of that you have a dd to mother. Isn't that enough to cope with, without mother sending a book with spite and malicious intent? FWIW after I had sent a letter to my mother telling her there was to be no more contact again, she sent a bday card to me "the first half of your life is made hell by your parents, the second half made hell by your children'. Not sure what she and my father meant to achieve by sending this. But gotta say I just got pissed off. And yes I had my doubts all over again reading that and thinking of what it meant. But I knew that to be a good mum to my dd I had to keep them out of my life and spend the energy I had left on my dd and dh and myself. Not people who drained me or robbed me of emotion.

got to go, dd awake!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx hugs

hiya everyne, hope you're all fine

I had a conversation with our family psychologist today - basically the stuff I posted here.. and he said he doesn't think any of that contributed to my daughter's problems.. big phew of relief with that, kind of :/
I mentioned the book and he's not read it but asked if I'd lend it to him when I've finished with it, although he said sometimes those kind of books cause more harm than good.. citing the one John Cleese contributed to years ago which claimed that autism was the result of bad parenting as an example. Anyway, I'm going to read it as I think all of you who have experienced this are somehow going to have a better insight than he would.

Also spoke to my daughter and apologised for all the fuck ups when she was younger.. again she said it wasn't my fault and she understood that I wasn't deliberately bad...

Not really sure how to feel now to be honest.

Sorry for the false name and false place names but not sure i want RL people to recognise me...

Wow. wow wow wow. Have just spent ages reading through this, sometimes restraining myself from crying. I really thought i was the only person to have a lunatic weird emotionally blackmailing mother. I thought i was the only person who constantly carried aroudn huge weights of guilt and shame about that mother.

Whilst i am sad for everyone who has written on this thread, it actually feels slightly better to know that other people experience these things too, to feel as though i am a bit 'normal' in having a dysfuncional relationship with my mother. Up until now i always felt i was the only person on earth and it helps to realise i am not.

It is interesting to see so many parrallels with people on this thread,for example someone mentioned this type of bad behaviour happening at times like pregnancy or marriage - well, my mother has 'behaved' well with me for the last few years, but since i have been pregnant she has been awful.all of my childhood memories have come back of her being cruel, inconsistent and cold have come flooding back.

Basically, we found out we were having a baby 3 days before DP moved from where we are in England to Aberdeen to start a new job. I was in final stage negotiations to start a new job up there and we decided that it was better financially if i carried on working down here until maternity leave (we'd had a financial disaster previously with an old flat and we really couldn't cope with any more problems in that area). So bearing in mind that i was spending my pregnancy on my own (the english city we live in is somewhere we've only been a short time and i don't really know anyone here outside work), I was suffering from terrible morning sickness (4 or 5 times a day until month 5) SO, she decided that this was the best time to tell me that i HAD to marry DP b4 the baby arrived. This is because it meant SO much to her and my dad and if i didn't do it then i was selfish and worrying them sick as well as being a bad mother to my unborn child by providig an unstable life. I said that we wouldn't get married(we are engaged but want to get married in our own way when i am not pregnant!). THis resulted in her screaming at me down the phone (literally) that i was all these terrible things (a bitch and selfish and thoughtless to them and the child). She then lied to my dad and told him that i had said he was bigot (divide and rule!).
We didn't speak for a few weeks and then they basically guilted me into going to them for christmas. A few weeks later, they came to stay (mid week, when DH was away so that she had maximum manipulation impact) and she told me that if i didn't marry DP i was endangering my child's life. Why? well (and this is the most unbelievalbe, shameful thing) that men who are not married leave the mother of their children (thanks) and that step-fathers have the highest rate of murdering step-children and as such had i thought of what the risk for my child...(i.e. that DP would leave me and i would get together with some other bloke who would kill my child). This was so astonishing i actually laughed. i didn't argue, i didn't engage with her on this (as i was so shocked), i just said we would do what we wanted with our lives. At this point, she stormed out to bed and left first thing the next morning. They then didn't speak to me for 5 weeks (they went on holiday abroad and didn't tell me, i sent dad a b-day present which they took ten days to aknowledge...).
Eventually they rang and i thought 'ok, give them the benefit of the doubt and be nice' so i chatted and for a few weeks we all chatted nicely. I then had a high blood pressure scare and my DP told them. So she rang up and in the very same call that i told her that my Doc had said i had to avoid stress and be careful etc etc she started screaming at me about christmas plans and telling me that i had a 'problem' with her and was selfish, thoughtless, mean etc (she was unable to see the obvious irony of the selfishness of screaming at me stressing me out when i had just told her bout my high BP!).
i am at my wits end. There have been other things over the last few weeks, she lied to dad about our plans for next christmas and all kinds of weird things. She had always been cruel and manipulative.She just wants her own way and when she doesn't get it she lashes out uncontrollably and tries to get her way by being as nasty and mean as possible to make you do what she wants.
My poor old dad is kind and normal but i have recently come to the conclusion that he is responsible too because he allows her to do this. All our lives he has allowed her to this to me and my sister so in many ways, he is responsible too - even though he never says or does any of the things and indeed often just looks sad.

Like many of you, my mother had an abusive childhood but you know what, i dont' care anymore. i have spent SO long feeling guilty about her life not being great or for not seeing her enough, not phoning her enough (every day is what she expects). The only way i was able to have a decent relationship with her in my twenties was to live our relationship on HER terms. i did EVERYTHING her way.

I only just realised as i wrote this that for the past few years, she made me feel guilty if i didn't ring her everyday, yet thoroughout my (difficult) first pregnancy, when she knows i have been isolated, ill and apart from DP she has gone for weeks on end without ringing to see if i am ok. All becasue i 'dared' to not live my life how she wants. There are a million other things from my childhood, alcoholism, (minor) drunken violence towards me, the way she would punish my sister and me for things by igoring one or the other of us for days on end (literally ignoring us, not speaking to us at meal times, not tucking us in - real alienation from the rest of the family), constant criticism and belittleing, the way she would mock us for not being good at things, her uncontrolable, white rages (which i have picked up :-( ).

anyway, i am rambling, but huge hugs to you all and thank you for your inspirational messages which make me realise that i can deal with her and move on and that i don't HAVE to be the same kind of parent as her (one of my greatest fears).

god, sorry, just realised how long that was ...SORRY

Someoneelse, she's a peach your mum! I got abusive phone calls while 8 mth pg. And I was treating her like 'dog dirt' apparently for not being all over her like a rash too. Can really relate to what your saying there. And as for the father, mine did the looking sad bit too...and I was told by therapist (psychoanylyst) that he was a 'bystander' and part of it all. Kind of like people who don't help when someone is attacked in street. I didn't get angry about my dads behaviour until I broke with my mother and he was still on her side after I explained in a letter about my childhood. He cannot have NOT seen what went on, yet he treated me like a rude child when he next came round. Did not get the silences, that must have been hard for you to be so isolated when you needed your mum.

And I was so shocked at your mothers belief you should get married and the reasons why!! She sounds just like my mother actually...the slightly out of this world reasoning, exageration of danger, knowing better than you and trying to manage your life.

And as for being a bad mother yourself, my dd is my first (how far on are you? Or would you rather not say...) and I have just kept firmly in sight what I wanted and needed from my mother. And I speak to my therapist too about any negative feelings I have towards her (due to childhood, seeing dd as sister at mo but spoke about it to therapist and all is good again )

Glad you found us How are you going to go forward from here? Temporary separation from parents, a letter to them? Could dr speak to her, or midwife? Hope things are running more smoothly for you at mo and your bp comes down. Must be so hard being away from DP too.

xxxxhugsxxxxxxx

Hi someoneelse

glad you've found us - I felt exactly the same as you when I found this board - such relief that there were other people going through the same thing - I think we get too engrained in the idea that it is all our fault, and we are the only ones like this. So this board is very very helpful.

I cannot believe what your mother said to you - it is just so off the wall, but I can really see my own mother saying exactly the same thing. My dad has tried to explain her behaviour byt saying that she is frightened when she is losing control of me and so lashes out but it is because she cares. The book I mentioned below (You're wearing that by deborah tannen) talks about this and is def worth a read. But I think our mothers go a step beyond that - normal mothers are able to listen and understand when their children explain how they are feeling. our mothers only care about their own feelings. I swear my mother is actually surprised if anyone dares to say that they are hurt by something she has said, and will then turn it straight back at them - "you're too sensitive/you're overreacting..."

Being pregnant is quite an emotional time so I personally wouldn't want any sort of confrontation at that time - could you just withdraw a bit, emotionally and physically? My dh did this successfully with his mother - just didn't call for ages whenever she pi$$ed him off. I'm not as good at it though - I am still too emotionally involved and think I can change her.

Anyway, welcome and hope the rest of your pregnancy goes smoothly for you. Focus on the baby inside you and try to enjoy this time when you are connected and have such a wonderful time ahead of you.

Like someoneelse I have recently found this discussion (and MN)and it has been a great help in thinking through problems I'm having with my mother. It's very reassuring in a way to find out that other people have mothers similar to mine and to hear some of the ways people are coping with all the problems that brings.

To briefly tell part of my story, as with many of you problems with my mother flared up again once I announced I was getting married. All sorts of nonsense followed, culminating in her threatening not to come to the wedding three weeks beforehand. Of course she did come - too scared of losing face with the rest of her family - but for about a year and a half after the wedding she didn't phone me. I had to be the one to make contact, and when I did phone I got endless abuse about the wedding and how terrible it was, how the whole thing was set up to insult her, how 'the family' were offended (they weren't), why didn't I invite my cousin's girlfriend (he hasn't got a bloody girlfriend), there wasn't enough tea and coffee (??), more of my dad's relatives (they're divorced) were on the top table than her's (they weren't). On and on....

Just as this was gradually tailing off I became pg. No interest from her at all till very near dd's birth (she's now 1.4). Various other problems not really worth reporting as I'm sure you all know the sort of thing.

The crisis at the moment is that late last year she walked out at 8am on the morning of dd's christening / first birthday celebration - she'd stayed overnight at the house the day before - on the grounds that the meal I'd fed her the previous night was 'disgusting and a total insult'. No discussion - just a walk out after a few minutes informing me in great detail of my many culinary and other failings. I have tried a number of peace measures - including letters along the line of 'I'm sorry you were upset but...' etc. The result of which I got a long letter from her - again much of it criticising my shepherd's pie and chocolate brownies - plus follow-up ultimatums about how I have to respond (ie grovel) to all the points she's made otherwise she 'can't' see my dd - her only gc....

Unbelievable. I do totally understand those of you who have cut your mother out of your lives . Not sure I am quite at that stage yet - but I can see it happening. It does make me sad as well as angry. Sometimes it helps to think of her as mad not bad (the links earlier in this discussion to narcisstic personality disorder rang many bells). but it is very depressing to realise the only relationship I can have with my mother will be one which I manage at arms length to cause me as little damage as possible - and where there is no possibility of her ever changing or understanding the pain she causes. Oh well....

But as I said at the start - very supportive to hear others' experiences and to find out how you try to deal with it. Good luck everyone!

Just briefly, hi CIrcus,
YEs, the "mad not bad" thing helps me too. BUT because its a personality disorder, they say that these people DO actually know the difference between right and wrong. And even though they have no empathy for others, they do understand that their actions are hurtful. So in this sense, they are choosing these actions (compared to someone with schizophrenia, maybe)
I think I kind of knew this even before reading up about her, but holding her accountable and responsible for the things she does has helped me a lot, and I think in the long run , will help her.

Hi everyone

Just wanted to let you know I am back online at last and that I have missed you all! I was very pleased to find this thread still going strong as I have an update on my situtation too, but am first of all going to catch up with all of you and read through everything I have missed... as Dr Johnson once said, I may be some time...

God, it's good to have contact again

xxx to you all.

Hey Pages..............

Great to see you aorund...I was wondering how you were doing just the other day!

Ahh thanks Sandcastles,things are going well. Still haven't caught up so will check back in tomorrow.