My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

And yes I do need you guys too!

Hello, I just wanted to say thank you to Pages for starting this thread and to everyone who has posted with their experiences. I thought I was alone and it's comforting to know I'm not, though I'm very sorry for the tough times you're all going/have been through. I had to cut off contact with my mother last year, after a lifetime of her trying to control me and constantly criticising me, culminating last July in me having a mc which I suspect may have been brought on by the stress caused by her angry and manipulative behaviour towards me. It's a long story - originally I wrote a post with all the details but it was so long I thought it might send you all to sleep! (Basically, controlling, critical and fairly cold mother, domineering, critical, "pillar of the community" father with violent temper. Me, oldest child, desperate to be loved, never rocked the boat and always did what I was told as I knew consequences of not toeing the line would be banishment from the family. Last Jan. discover father has been having affair for 20 yrs. Can't bring myself to see him until I've sorted my head out, in my own time. Try to support my mother in her decision to stay with him, but she insists on discussing affair in hysterics in front of ds (aged 3), including graphic details (this from a woman who is usually the biggest prude on the planet). Mother becomes increasingly angry with me that I won't do what she wants (see my father and restore family to "normal") and because I won't let her talk about the affair in front of ds, and issues me with ultimatum - either I see my father or she stays angry with me for good. I then have mc in July and finally cut off any face-to-face or verbal contact in Nov.)

Found a website just before I cut off contact which was a real revelation to me - here
The "controlling families" column describes my family almost totally. So that I didn't realise this wasn't the norm.

I can't remember from all the messages but do any of you have dc who had contact with your mothers in their early years but who now don't? My ds is now 4 and saw my mother every two months or so until this time last year but hasn't seen her since last April when her behaviour became increasingly unacceptable. DS is too young for us to explain the reasons for this and as he hasn't asked what's happened, we haven't mentioned it, but I'm wondering what will happen over the next few years, in the time when he's really too young to understand why we don't see my parents but may well start to ask why they aren't in his life any more. Does anyone have experience of this and any advice they can give me?

Ally90- that's an awful tactic your parents have adopted. Incredibly sneaky. I think if I were you I would refuse the money just out of sheer annoyance but whatever you do, any consequences are not your fault but theirs. I know you know that but it is hard to internalise it isn't it.

I'm glad you are shocked re. my mother's status as a psychotherapist and the 20 years therapy which has enabled her to move on from my apparent 'abuse' of her and the terrible suffering my existence has inflicted upon her (from my 'difficult birth' to her PND to my 'inexplicable' teenage behaviour). She has really helped herself to feel good about herself. Which sadly is what a lot of therapy is about isn't it- if you are totally in denial about something, only you can acknowledge it.

It frankly disturbs me though that she, and my younger sister, two of the most insensitive and self-obsessed people on the planet, are both qualified psychotherapists. When I speak to my sister, she basically can't hold a conversation with me if I say anything negative at all- tries to use her cognitive behavioural therapy techniques on me with a special sisterly edge of 'don't think you've REALLY got any problems- you just need to snap out of it and stop moaning'. I am suspicious of CBT as a result! I have given up trying to speak to her now so that's another family relationship I don't have.

Bearsmom reading your post I felt a strange mixture of feelings about your mum (from the few details you have given)- obviously she is a highly unpleasant character like all the mothers on here but I did feel a stab of pity for a woman who has to find out after 20 years that her DH has been having an affair. Having said all that- when my own mum had cancer I couldn't feel much more than irritation for her. I don't think your dcs will suffer from not seeing gps. My son barely sees his; when he does, he seems to remember them and enjoys himself, but it is not as if their absence leaves any sort of terrible void. When our kids are older, however, we do have to face telling them about why we don't really see/get on with our own parents, which will be a challenge.

Charlieq - I agree about feeling pity for my mother. When I heard about the affair I was devastated for her, told her if she wanted to leave him she'd be welcome to live with us for as long as she needed, I listened whenever I could so she get could things off her chest (she wouldn't consider counselling), encouraged her initially to come and see ds as I thought playing with him would distract her from her troubles for a while. And when her getting upset in front of ds became an issue I suggested meeting somewhere other than my home so he wouldn't be. But with my mother it's either her way or no way. I tried with her for so long. Makes me feel weary thinking about it.

I feel so sad for her because I think she's very much a victim of her own upbringing (as my dad is of his). My gran drummed it into my mum and aunt that they both had to marry rich men as that was their only indicator of success (my great grandad had a very successful business which went bust when my gran was in her teens and I think that drove her to want her daughters to achieve the financial security she didn't feel she had). They both did get that financial security - my aunt married a millionaire but had to put up with him having almost constant affairs with his secretaries, which all of us knew about from an early age, and now it turns out my mum married a similar type of man. I have thought and agonised so much about all this, and wanted to help her. But in the end she didn't want my help, she just wanted me to do what I was told.

Hi bearsmom,
Thanks for that link to the website.
It just struck me reading your descrption of your family life and mother, that your situation mirrors my DHs family to a T. I wrote below about how I thought my DH was more "grounded" than other partners IVE had. But weve been having some problems that have culminated in a big blow out this week, and its mainly been because of <span class="italic">his</span> mother this time, not mine. HEs been defending some ridiculous behaviour on her part (she turned up at my labour and snatched the baby away before I had a chance to hold DD properly, wouldnt give the baby back when it was crying, insisted baby wasnt hungry when I wanted to breastfeed etc -the usual MIL stuff but compounded by the fact I have no mother to speak of that I can confide in)
I hate to admit it but it looks like he is also from a toxic family. His mum has married for money, only cares about status. Her husband has been having a long-term affair, and a few months ago it came to light again. She was kind of upset but then just carried on as normal (but confiding all the time in my DH). I honestly believe shes been treating me badly because she thinks Im the same as her i.e Ill stay with my DH no matter what because I wouldnT like a scandal at the golf club (not that I play golf but YSWIM)
ANYHOW, just interesting really that your mother and his sound so similar.

Sakura, so sorry to hear about the blow up with your DH. Hope you manage to get him to see the problem more clearly. Any chance of convincing him that maybe listening too much to his mum's woes about her marital problems isn't a good idea? (IMO anyway. My mother has been using my sister as her therapist for over a year now, and IMO it's having a very bad effect on my sister's emotional wellbeing and her day-to-day life. Suggested my mother go to Relate but apparently her sort of person doesn't do that).

I also have a toxic MIL but luckily DH acknowledges she's a very toxic person (her particular forte is setting her own children against each other so the sibling bonds in the family are quite fragile. I guess this gives her more power over them all. Luckily DH had a brilliant dad who managed to cancel out her influence a bit). Your description of your MIL at your labour () makes me glad my mother wasn't at mine. Although at the time they only lived an hour from us and have transport, she and my dad didn't turn up until 48 hours after I gave birth (even though DS was in special care for a while) because they had "an important lunch party" to go to . This from people who spent years going on and on about the fact they didn't have grandchildren and if only one of us would have kids they'd be so happy.

BTW, I meant to say thanks for the recommendation you made further down the thread of the Deborah Johnson book. I just got it from the library and am finding it very interesting. Just wish I'd read it earlier. Once I've finished that I'm moving on to Alice Miller.

HI bearsmom,
yes, just sorted it out with DH. He doesnt know that sheS "toxic", but he managed to accept this evening, that she hasnt been treating me very well. I feel sorry for him because hes really confused. He knows Im not wrong about it, but he still sees his mum as being perfect. She also sets the siblings against each other (DH and his brother dont get along) As you said, its probably a way of retaining her queen bee status. DH has agreed to tell her that we need space for a month or so to sort out some relationship problems, so I wont have to put up with her for a while. (Actually we kissed and made up this evening, so me and DH are okay, but Im just so glad that she`l be out of the picture for a while.)

Pages: Hmm, beginning your someone famous I keep thinking someone will recognise me then I think 'f*ck it'. Maybe it will be my mother and it'll lift the wool from the entirity of NZ and Wales from her eyes . If wishes came true...

Bearsmom: Hi!! Welcome back to the land of sanity! This is where your feelings are listened to...nice isn't it . Your mum sounds nice. Hysterics in front of her gc and grapic details of sex, ideal gp material. What the heck your childhood must have been like...gp's tend to be nicer to gc as they mellow with age... So was November your 'realisation'? Something we all have. Mine was at 16 when I got my exam results. Been told I was stupid all my life, got good results despite not revising and I 'realised' I had been lied to all my life by mother and sister. I had another 'realisation' (secondary realisation??) when I was 8 months pg, taken another verbally agressive call from mother and I was shaking like a leaf. Realised I had to take care of my baby, then it dawned on me that I had to put me first instead of my mothers feelings. This led to a permanent separation from her. My father tried to continue the contact between me and mother, so I cut him out too, the stress was just as great as being round my mother. My sister cut herself off from me when I married/became pg. Don't think she could cope with the fact the little sister she so despised had achieved all she wanted. Anyway you were saying you didn't want to bore us. We never bore good to hear your story or anyone elses. Pour your heart out, we'll be sat here listening, your not alone anymore. Its tough breaking from family, its a year yesterday for me. Don't regret but at therpist this week I was sobbing because I wanted a normal loving family, not my own. A nurturing mother who put me first and listened, and hugged and laughed with me. Tis hard to accept that can never be. I can only give my dd what I needed and get help from thepist for myself It does get better tho. Nov isn't long, stay strong. Your needs come first. You stand up for yourself and ds and you can take as long as you like to sort your feelings out. You cannot rush it. (Even tho I try!) Don't worry too much about ds. Your his mother and he needs you at that age. Its important your okay, and calm and able to see to all his emotional needs. Not your mothers. Your not just doing this for yourself, for him too. If your mother wishes to have contact with her gc she knows what to do. Her behaviour is highly inappropriate for any gc at any age! Your doing the right thing.

Charlieq: I'm worried, I go see a psychotherpist...eek! Scary that your mum and sister are 'out there' helping people. Yet can't extend it to their home. Just out of interest, why did they take it up? Apparently a lot of abused people do it to help others. Was your mother abused? You don't have to answer that, just curiousity on my part. Your mothers behaviour is unbelievable...well to a person with empathy. Did she never ask why you were angry as a teenager. Sounds as blinded as my mother and father. At 16/17 I was 'being a teenager'. Why not at 13 when I started periods and the hormones kicked in? Yet for them it was a convenient explanation. I remember every time my mother or sister opened mouth to talk to me I just screamed at them to shut up. Hard on the vocal cords. Alot of our mothers seem to be self obcessed. Bit of a trend. It seems to be this post war generation. My mother and father are in 60's now. Everyone elses a similar age? My dh parents are nuts too. Oh and I'm not sending the savings document back. My dh said he will make up any money dd may have missed out on at 18 so tough titties to parents. I will NOT invite them back into my life to screw it up again. Oh and your sister trying to analyse you...creepy!! And incredibly annoying I imagine!

Sakura: I would be bout mil taking dd off you...fuming for you! Anyway hope your dh continues his realisation. Parents are to be there for children even adult children. Not the other way round. Cannot be easy for him afterall its his father. My parents leaned on me about their marriage. Bloody awful, last thing you want to hear is how 'bad' the other parent is. But for your sake...I hope they keep a distance. Honestly what is it about us that attracts other weird families? As I said above, dh's family are nuttier than mine. In fact my dh always looked forward to meeting a future wife with a normal family he could be adopted into...oh well!

Wish there was a better way to go about this...I get tired of typing and scrolling up and down up and down up and down the page to remember who's put what...been thinking of setting up a website but that would take time and effort and an 'adult' person to run it. And um...I'm not adult 'adult' in the freudian sense! Had loads of good ideas but that's as far as I ever go...story of my life...

Hugs to you all xxx

Everyone seems very resolute and good about not having contact with their parents. I'm on a low atm and it feels particularly hard to not feel 'mothered'/not to have had a mother. I'm 7 months pg and am really feeling that lack. It makes it harder to feel really connected to your own children, you are always concerned about what you are passing on, whether you too are a toxic person. (Well I feel like that anyway).

My delightful sister deliberately 'forgot' my birthday, rang up 4 days later blaring 'oh sorry, was busy' down the phone, didn't even get a card afterwards. She lives 2.5 miles from me but I never see her. I feel really angry about this today, even though we don't get on I just feel I don't have a family to relate to. I've had to create my own from scratch and I don't feel up to it.

Anyway sorry for the self-pity party. It's just frankly shite sometimes having a void in your life instead of parents as no doubt you all know.

Ally90 I'm sure if you get a good feeling from your therapist, he/she is fine- I just know it makes me more suspicious having those 2 in practice.

you are quite right about my mum having been abused- abuse which of course she passed on. A good therapist would no doubt be able to move on properly from this in order to help others. I don't believe that's happened with either my mum or sister as they are in denial about multiple things in their lives. Therapy seems for them to be a tool to feel better about themselves and also perhaps to feel powerful in other people's lives/emotions. That being said, they may have helped their actual clients, who knows: the client won't necessarily pick up on or come across the denial tactics they use in their personal lives.

Ally, I know. SHe never actually took my baby off me as such because I was still lying there with my legs open and baby was next to me. I hadn`t held her yet. MIL grabbed her without asking and ran off.

OMg Sakura that is DREADFUL.

Did your DH run after her and claim his offspring back?

charlieq, I know what you mean about wondering what legacies we are accidentally passing on to our DCs. I think to myself, if ive got the anger and obvious stuff under control, it should be okay. It helps, and its a step better, but I suppose we are going to have to work on ourselves every day for the rest of our lives. But AT LEAST, we are willing to do that. I suppose the real decider is whether or not well allow our kids to criticise us. Even if we think they`re wrong, we should hear them out, I think.

charlieq, I know what you mean about wondering what legacies we are accidentally passing on to our DCs. I think to myself, if ive got the anger and obvious stuff under control, it should be okay. It helps, and its a step better, but I suppose we are going to have to work on ourselves every day for the rest of our lives. But AT LEAST, we are willing to do that. I suppose the real decider is whether or not well allow our kids to criticise us. Even if we think they`re wrong, we should hear them out, I think.

And no, DH got pissed off with me for bringing up the fact that she had turned up uninvited. (He was really under her control) But its really being sorted out as we speak.

I already get criticism from DS Sakura, and he's only 3 . On the whole it's been harsh but fair (i.e. telling me off for swearing and for snapping at DH)...

I think I might be strangely humble if my kids do criticise me because I'll be so aware of not wanting to be a toxic parent. It'll really hurt though. Suppose we are all going to get it when they are teenagers, and everything we do will be wrong...

am still in shock from your birth story. My MIL is bad (to me, not DH, he always claims she was a wonderful mother) but that is just BEYOND.

As for anger under control- I don't have that. I have to do a lot of deep breathing and apologising . But an apology does go a long way doesn't it, shouldn't think any of our mothers know what the word means. I think my mother would choke on it if she tried to utter it...

I find myself doing a lot of deep breathing and apologising too - glad I'm not alone! I agree that an apology makes a big difference. We realise we're only human and aren't always going to be perfect parents and we're prepared to admit it. Which our mothers aren't, let alone apologise.

Hi Ally! Thank you, thank you, thank you. You have made me feel so much better. It?s nice to be here, and such a relief to talk to others who have toxic mothers. I have one good friend I can talk to about this, but she?s on the other side of the country and has two young dcs and a dh working long shifts so we rarely get time to talk about it.

My parents have both just turned 70 and have always been very Victorian in their attitudes (and sadly aren?t mellowing with age), so my mother?s graphic talk in front of ds last year was a real shock to me. I think the revelation of the affair has sent her over the edge (not surprisingly), which was one of the reasons I thought she should get some counselling. She was furious with me for suggesting this, like I was saying she was faulty in some way. In her eyes I?m the faulty one and always have been. I don?t have any idea why this is (definitely need to find a therapist soon but money is a bit of an issue at the moment), but from my earliest memories I know that she has always felt like this about me so I just kept trying to be a ?better? daughter and ?fix? whatever it was that on any given day she'd decided was wrong with me. I was never pretty enough, or sociable enough, or clever enough, didn?t get married early enough or to the right sort of person (I think a member of the royal family would have been her ideal ). My sister is definitely her favourite, and I never realised how obvious this was to the world until a few years ago when my cousin, who we saw a couple of times a year throughout childhood, asked how my bro and I coped with my sister being the golden child. I guess this was one of my mini-realisations, which I filed away and which all started to come together last year.

My ?realisation? dawned slowly through the year although I think I always knew things would turn out as they have. (I?m envious your realisation came at 16, I am 41 and feel perhaps I should have worked all this stuff out a bit earlier!) DH and I realised soon after my parents told us about the affair that we were probably going to end up being the ?bad guys? because we weren?t prepared just to pretend like nothing had happened, and sure enough we are. During last year I was just repeating the pattern of my whole life where I tried to find a way of being with my mother that worked for us both, while protecting my ds as well, and it took me a while to realise that these things just weren?t compatible and something had to give. I also finally cottoned on to the fact that I didn?t have to do what she wanted and she had no right to expect me to. November was the final straw for me. Reading Toxic Parents really helped focus my mind and I realised my mother was never going to change and was never going to listen to my point of view, so there was really no way forward for us. When I finally started standing up for myself last year I felt a bit like I?d just left a cult! Now I?m just trying to maintain the very fragile relationship I have with my brother and sister. We are still in touch from time to time but they won?t talk to me at all about what has happened even though I?ve tried to explain my position. Their loyalty is 100% with my mum and they?re putting her needs before theirs (they both hate my dad and have told me they?d be happy if he was dead and yet they go to my parents? house and are sweetness and light to him and put up with him behaving just like he always has done. I just couldn?t be that hypocritical). I?m sure having a child has had a big effect on how I?ve reacted to things (protecting him is my priority, if only I?d thought about protecting myself a bit earlier in my life), and neither of my siblings have children. My poor sister?s life is a mess ? she is still following my mother?s model of relationships and hasn?t managed to break the pattern. She goes for emotionally distant men who retain complete control in the relationship. Yesterday was a difficult day for me ? it was ds?s birthday and my sister sent him a card containing a letter for me. It told me that not only was her wedding (scheduled for April) cancelled but that two weeks ago, two days after she left her job in order to start working for her df?s business, he dumped her altogether. He?s now ?considering whether he?s made a mistake?. I was so upset for her I rang her yesterday (she doesn?t normally like talking on the phone, let alone discussing her life with any of us so phoning her can be a bit of a risk) and we actually had a good chat, but I couldn?t believe she was waiting for him to decide what they should do. It?s her life fgs. She asked me whether I thought she was being too tolerant and I told her if it was me I?d have ?boiled his head? by now. I wish I could get her to see that she needs to change her patterns of behaviour ? we only get one life after all and I hate to think of her wasting hers on all these useless men who let her down and destroy her spirit. She is 39 and would love to have a child but it?s looking unlikely for her now and it breaks my heart. Sorry, slightly unrelated rant, but I feel better for it.

Very reassured by what you say about Nov not being long. You?re right and I need to take things slowly. Sorry this has been so long. Off for a strong cup of coffee now!

Eek bearsmom your poor sister. It's so hard to feel involved in that sort of thing isn't it, because she is so unlikely to be able to change her behaviour pattern & will ignore whatever you say.

It's very sad when we have to watch people we want to be close to behaving in these mad, saddening ways. And to know it comes from the delightful upbringing we shared with them...

Hi Foxinsocks, you poor thing, are they staying at yours? Or staying at a hotel? And how long are they staying for? Trying to think of something helpful to say, but coming up with nothing. I still feel guilty at times about my mother. Just found an easter card from last year from her, sounded all nice and 'thinking of you' and genuine (got it just before dd born) and then felt, maybe I made a mistake...then I hear in my head all the times she bitched at me and sneered at me and picked on me when I was only a toddler and it goes away. I guess with you, perhaps remember, or write down just why you don't want her round your children. And having reread your first post on here about your mum...you did exactly the right thing.

Charlieq: how's your pregnancy going?

Bearsmom: glad my ramble helped! I can imagine it being shocking if your mother is 'victorian' in values! Understand what you are saying about your sister, mine is off the rails but she has to realise for herself what's going on. And I'm not in contact so I can maintain that emotional distance. She can be very nasty, even to her friends so I have no wish to get back in contact until she has a 'realisation'. And as for having a 'realisation' at 16, its not all its cracked up to be! I think it has made things much much harder with therpy. I've built that many walls to defend myself from my mother and sister its hard to feel any emotion towards them but anger, not even hurt, that was when I was a child and defenceless.
How are things going now?

xxx

Hi Ally, all quiet here on the mother front. She sent me a card with ds's birthday present a few weeks ago which just said "hope he doesn't already have this", without my name at the top or her signature at the bottom, perhaps intending to indicate that she and I don't exist for each other anymore?? And it's okay because to my surprise I don't miss her. I do miss having a mother who could be there for me as a mother should, but she's not that person and I have to find a way to deal with the knowledge of how she treated me, especially as a young child. I can't imagine ever being nasty to ds in the way that she was to me throughout my childhood. And yet it was obviously second nature to her. I think I understand why she is as she is, and in my rational, conscious mind I know it wasn't my fault, but my subconscious is a different matter. That little girl is still inside my head asking "why? what did I do wrong?" There's a quite worrying pocket of sadness, anger and fear bottled up inside me that I sometimes connect with when I'm reading (Alice Miller at the moment) and it scares me. I do want to try therapy, but I worry about the strength of what it might unleash. But I realise if I don't try I may be stuck feeling like this forever. Have you heard any more from your mother?

Foxinsocks - Good luck with the visit. Sounds like a very difficult situation. You say you worry about pushing people away and that you're not sure you can change this way of behaving now you're in your 30s. But I really believe that we can change, whatever age we are. I was in my 30s when I finally got wise and realised that being drawn to "mad, bad and dangerous to know" men wasn't the best course of action and after about a year of doing my best to ignore any men like that who crossed my path I met dh who is the complete opposite. I guess it's about pushing away the people who might harm you or about whom you don't feel comfortable and letting the good ones get close. It's probably worse to not push anyone away and have no boundaries or protection.

Anyone else feeling unsettled by the approach of Mother's Day? I found myself standing in front of a display of cards the other day wondering whether I should send her one and then realised it would be so hypocritical and not at all what my heart tells me to do. And yet it seems like the final nail in the coffin of our relationship not to send one.

Hi Bearsmom

I see your getting into the business of 'what does that signature/no signature/two xx's under mothers name but only one under fathers name mean... Wish I was one of those writing anylsists! No contact, expecting one this week, or maybe the week after. They've taken to sending stuff before the special date, bet they change tack and try after instead! We've had printed out addresses (obvious, I know what an inkjet printer looks like compared to business laserjet), got someone else to write envelope (creepy) or just plain writing it themselves.

As for therpy and the anger, yep, been there, still bottling it up after 2.5 years! I really fear letting it all go, like it could go on forever and I could do damage in someway by not being able to contain it in everyday life. Therpist assures me not but its hard to let it go, cause letting anger go means letting hurt back in. And as for the subconsious I'm still that hurt kid thinking its my fault. Feeling a bit different this week, I still feel terrible over cutting mother out of life and not letting her ever see grandchild. I worry I did it for the wrong reasons constantly. I'm not at peace with my decision. In a strange way I feel more at peace questioning my decision. I finally feel able to stop the brick wall that goes up in my mind every time I contemplate it may have been the wrong thing to do. If that makes sense. Thinking to myself are they really that bad. I desparately want their respect which I have never had, for them to treat me like an adult. As an equal. Instead I'm either a Parent figure to them (they act all pathetic and old (note: they are in early 60's and in good health and acted like this since early 40's) and do the old 'you'll look after us in our old age, you won't put us in a home, will you?' and act up like children to get me to 'tell them off' so they can snicker and giggle at each other (turns my stomach, THEY are my parents) Or alternatively I get the 'we have nothing better to do, or even bothered to get ourselves hobbies, YOU are our hobby and we will give you advice and interfere as we see fit as we know better than you'. And if I dare complain at them interfering I get 'oh so and so is worse she does this and that, I'm not that bad'. They basically are very very annoying and as other people describe them, weird people. My sister is just weird full stop. I desparetely want them to stop viewing me, as they have done since my first memories as the 'fool' of the family, just because I'm they youngest and was 'dirty' as a youngster. Something my mother was obcessed about. They would often sit all three together and bring out all the old stories of how I did this and that thing and just sit and laugh together about it, not only was it humiliating then, it was still humiliating as an adult. Yet they can't see what they were doing wrong. Even when I brought it up in my letter to them they just agreed I was a dirty child unlike my sister and had to be kept clean. The other things I brought up they explained away. What they have done is nothing different to what comedians make their money doing, yet it was so painful and hurtful and humiliating and they never stopped doing it. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing is unacceptable. As a teenager I would scream and shout to shut them up and yet they still carried on. I have always felt like the 'slow one' and the 'idiot' of the family. Always singled out for their amusement when they were feeling peed off, always singled out for being shouted at, given a choice it was me, my sister and father were too bad tempered to shout at. I was just the easy target. That is why it is so bitter now to be the 'favoured' one of the family with the wonderful rich dh and first gc and own house. The one that will be looking after them in their old age (sister included as she can't handle money or life). The one who will always be the 'caring' one. The one who will still always be their to be brought down at appropriate intervals when their in a mood. Part of me wonders if I'm being spiteful shutting them out (as my family has said) part of me thinks its an ultimate outcome of them refusing ever to sit and listen to me. Refusing to take me seriously when I told them I didn't like what they did. Its a way to finally make them realise that I was serious and for them to finally stop laughing at me and humiliating me and take me seriously. Cause they're not laughing now, I can guarentee that. And neither was I as a child/teenager/adult. Do I become the 'adult' of the family and try by my example to get them to finally 'grow up' in their sixties or do I leave them too it. They can sit and be miserable and convince themselves they were in the right and were good loving understanding (pah!) parents and I'm just mean and spiteful. Is it worth they years of hurt and humiliation that will be ahead of me if I accept them back into my life to let me dd be around them (weird and obcessive as they are)?

On a final note, how will I ever get their respect if I don't try? And why the hell do I want their respect when I have never respected them? Must be the little kid inside of me, I feel that if I get their respect it will release their hold over me and I will be free to be an adult.

What a novel...any thoughts people?

Good luck all for mothers day!

xxxx

Hello all

I just wanted to thanks you all for your stories and empathy. My divorce from my mother is still very recent - a week today. I found your site the day after, looking for something to help me feel less alone, and have been steadily reading through all the messages whenever I had a chance.

There are so many similarities that I have often been reduced to tears - I feel bad that you all have had such bad times (and much worse than mine) but also such relief that I am not the only one - I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

With me, although I have been thinking about it, the cutting contact was made by my mother, not me ("I resign as your mother, consider me dead"). So I am still feeling so hurt and rejected. Any idea how long it will be before this bit passes?? I feel deadened at the moment - if I didn't have my kids to look after I think I would just curl up in bed and hide. My dh is confident that this is for the best and I will feel happier, but for now I can't see it. I can't stop grieving for the family I want to have.

I hope it's ok to join you, and thank you all again.

Suburbia, I'm in tears reading that. And you haven't told all your story yet. Your mother said that to you? How incredibly heartless, it takes my breath away someone could say that to their own child. Your dh I think would be right about it being for the best, if she can say that to you, then what other hurtful things said have you had to take from her?

Hang on in there, as time goes on you start noticing a difference in yourself, your relationships with dh and children, the way you look at life etc...well i've noticed a difference anyway I think other people have too. Just be kind to yourself and be aware it can take over a year to get a balance back again...its also the year of anniversaries, first mothers day without them, first birthday etc...that is hard. But not too hard, you have a dh to lean on, and your children to help you smile. See if you can see a councellor, my councellor helped me through along with a very supportive dh who never waivered for a moment in his support of my decision. Try writing out how you feel, any thoughts or feelings that spring into your mind, no matter how strange they may seem. Try reading self help books if you can't see a councellor, or don't wish to. I read 'Divorcing a Parent' by Beverley Engel. Suitable if your parent has divorced you. Very supportive, offers loads of guidence and it gives many examples of hurtful parental behaviour. Lots of chances to realise that what seemed normal at the time, wasn't actually normal.

Best go now, keep reading and posting.

xxxx

Hi Suburbia, really pleased you found this thread and hope it continues to help you. For me it's made a real difference to know that I'm not alone in having a difficult (understatement!) relationship with my mother. Be kind to yourself and give yourself time - it's very early days and it does take time to start to recover from something so shocking, even if you'd been thinking about cutting contact yourself, especially given what you mother said to you . I don't think recovery from this sort of thing follows any pattern, except it's often two steps forward and one step back. My break with my mother was in November and I've had a few difficult "trigger" points since. Having said that, I was dreading Christmas but in fact it was blissful - nobody criticising or disapproving or shouting, just me, dh and ds having a nice, relaxed time on our own terms. So I try and concentrate on the benefits of not having her in my life any more. I feel calmer most of the time, happy to be free of her toxic and unpleasant behaviour, and pleased that I don't have to have her involved in my life any more. To be estranged like this is awful in many ways but also necessary for my survival (and I think for the survival of my marriage and the psychological health of ds). It's normal to grieve for the family you don't have, but as my dh said to me when I said I'd "lost my family", "but we're your family". And he's right, I have him and ds, they love me for who I am and aren't on a mission to destroy my self-esteem, unlike my mother and father. Sounds like your dh and dcs are there for you, which is wonderful.

Tell us your story if it helps to express it. We're here to listen, and I've found that putting things down in words often helps me to come to realisations I wouldn't have achieved otherwise. I think I'm now on a life-long journey of discovery, disentangling which bits of me are as a result of trying to please my mother and which are really me, and trying to put right some of the damage she's done to me. It's daunting, but I'd rather be like this, and actually feel like I might be making some progress and evolving, than still trapped in the awful relationship I had with her.

Anyway, hope you are doing okay.