My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry

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I posted on here a while back asking the question "Would you cut your mother out of your life" because of a really hurtful thing she did to me which she refuses to apologise for. I think my position has always been that it would be the last resort - I think my question should really have read "would you risk your mother cutting you out of HER life?". Well I risked it and she has...

Sorry to go over old ground but she told me over a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I didn't confront my brother and SIL until recently because they are really unapproachable and part of me felt that I had to just live with it. It came out a few months ago in a bit of heated discussion with my brother about something else. I immediately apologised to my mum for the way I had delivered it to my brother but said I felt it did need to be addressed (I have to protect my son, he will pick up on people's feelings about him). My mum denied having said anything of the sort and she, my SIL and brother all called me a liar (SIL said some really nasty things) and said I had invented the whole conversation, and my mum got the rest of the family to gang up on me.

My mum has said very little to my face but has badmouthed me and manipulated behind the scenes including trying to get the one (older)brother who has stood by me against me against me, accusing me of splitting up the family, etc.

Me and my older brother sent her an email telling her that we don't like the way the family operates, the scapegoating, backstabbing, and manipulating that goes on. We also told her that we wanted her to acknolwedge how bad our childhood was (my stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to us both for several years, my mum left us home alone when we were really small, etc). We told my mum that this has really affected our lives (Neither me or b have much inner confidence and I still have nightmares about the past. I am having counselling now).

My mum said nothing to me and b but showed my younger brother and sister the letter (even though we asked her not to and to talk to us about it instead)and my sister had a go at me, said my mum was really upset and had told her what had "really happened" and that we had made it all up, it wasn't that bad. I sent an email asking to be treated with more respect or be left alone. I heard nothing from any of them till now.

My mum recently started texting and contacting my older b, we are both certain she was doing her usual "divide and rule" bit, trying to get him on side so I am the one left out. He emailed her back a few days ago and said she must apologise to me for calling me a liar and take on board our concerns if she wants a relationship with either of us. I have to say, I never wanted to issue ultimatums, but could not live with the alternatives which would be to just not be myself or true to myself.

My mum has emailed him back and said it is too late, we have both hurt her to much and it is beyond redemption and that we need to sort our own lives out and leave her to get on with hers. She called me false because I had a close relationship with her and never said anything like this before. I accept that I did used to just say "the past is the past" and because I have always been too petrified of losing her to ever cross her, so have accepted blame, guilt, comments behind my back about me and DH, and have carried on being loving and compliant towards her till now. We did have a "close" relationship but on the basis that I agreed with everything she said.

I feel okay, actually. I suppose I have been slowly accepting this may be the outcome for months. But I can't quite believe that rather than discuss things, debate things, get things out into the open and (what is hardest for her - apologise)so we can move on to a new and better level in our dealings with her she is willing instead to lose two of her children. Just feel sad about that really...

I can really relate to what you are saying Fox. My mother told me that when I was born she thought to herself "at last a girl that I can have as a friend" and I recently realised that my whole life has in a sense been pre-destined - she had me to take care of her. It was much more subtle in my family than yours and the problems were much less obvious but we had a similar situation whereby we all walked round the "elephant in the living room" and pretended it wasn't there. Me and my brother have just pointed it out to everyone and the rest of my family have told us we are liars!

I also realised that I come bottom of the pecking order in my family. If it has ever been a contest between my emotional needs and my mum's she has always won hands down.

(Hope that bit about the elephant wasn't too obscure btw!)

If anyone is reading this and hasn't seen Dior's thread, I think she needs a bit of help.

Message withdrawn

dp went to see is mother today to confront her. She cut ties with us over a year ago but dp never made the attempt to change her mind as he said he was relieved. She is very controlling and minipulative and has really damaged our relationship. Hes been gone for over an hour im so worried what the outcome will be. Im worried for him but also for me iykwim. The situation isnt perfect as you would all like to be one happy family and get along with you inlaws but since shes been out of our lives things have been alot better. It only when his siblings try and put him on a guilt trip that things get tense between us because he lets them walk over him. Although i hate the situation between dp and him mum i hate the fact of having her in mine and ds life especially when she cut us out so easily. Also depite her cutting ties she has still sent cards etc and presents to dp and ds yet not me. Its not that i care but if dp and her become on speaking terms am i going to get sidelined.

i just really need some advice i mean i hate the thought of her seeing ds and the reason for this is because sil had a pregnancy scare recently shes 19 and mil reaction whilst waitning for the test results was 'ah yes please give me a grandson!' She has one gc and thats my ds who she cut out over a year ago

I can understand your worry Rosebud, and it is horrible the way she is trying to sideline you. I don't know what her reasons were for cutting you out but she sounds like a spiteful person. My mum also likes to divide and rule.

The only advice I can give you is to try not to get sucked into her games and keep a dignified silence rather than give her a reaction.

Tell us what your DP says when he comes home if you feel like it and we can try and help. x

hes on his way home now arraagghh no looking forward to it at all. Hearing what she has to say will open up old wounds no doubt. She is very controlling and has tried to control dp all his life which has affected us.

A controlling mother? Well you are not alone there! Good luck and let us know how it goes.

rosebud, was there a particular reason for your Dh confronting his mother today? Was it because of his siblings? Poor DH & you! Hope it went ok & didn't drag to much hurt out. Its sounds as though you are far better off without that kind of influence from MIL, not just for you or DH but for your dear son too. How old is he if you don't mind me asking? It's bad enough that your you & DH have suffered because of her without her contributing more suffering to your child aswell.

I fully understand why you are concerned & were happier when she was out of your lives.

Thinking of you & good luck, keep us informed.

Hi everyone,
I just got back from the UK for Christmas. Do you mind if I just talk about it a bit? SOrry, this is such a good therapy thread, that it doesnt matter if no-one reads this, its just good to get it all out. I was there for three weeks in all- well that was fun and games. Its quite hurtful to talk about, but in the end, my mum never did meet me and my dd. My choice really. I offered to meet up with her for an afternoon while I was back (even after she didnt come to my wedding)After that, she called up my DH and screamed at him down the phone at work FOR 15 MINUTES about her rights to see DD so by then, I had already made the decision to cut her out of my life.
The interesting thing is that I stayed with my grandmother (her mother) for some of the time I was home. What I realised for the first time though is that my mum has her, and her siblings, and my siblings under some kind of spell. They know her behaviour is despicable, they know she is unhinged, but they seem to think that if I would just STOP ROCKING THE BOAT and try to pander to her, everyones life would be a lot easier. THey really think that I am causing a whole lot of trouble by not giving my mum her own way, the way she has always been used to. They canT tell me Im wrong, because its too obvious now that Im not, but my grandmother especially was making hints that I should have a "bigger heart" and the like. To be fair, my siblings love and respect me more than I could have imagined, and I realised that they were coming to me with problems that they couldnT take to my mum because sheS so wrapped up in herself and her self-imposed problems.
I think she has that narcissistic personality disorder. I think its where someone believes they are the only person of significance in the world, and all the other people are pawns who are revolving around them. Check it out on google, I`m sure thats what our mothers have got.

Anyway, she called up my grandmothers house regularly, knowing I was there, but amazingly she didnT turn up and cause chaos, even though she kept threatening to. But I stayed with my dad for most of the time. (He used to take her side throughout my childhood, but theyre divorced now, and he finally doesnt anymore)
She kept going on and on about her rights and how she was taking me to court for access to dd. she called me all kinds of names down the phone. My dad told me that she has no rights, but it hurts that if she <span class="italic">did</span> have, she would definitely use them against me. Anyhow, Im back now, and she never could find it in her heart to actually just be nice to me, so I really couldn`t find it in my heart to meet up with her. HOrrible really, because DD was 3 months, and its such a cute age, and it would have been lovely to have had a mother to share her with. But my D brothers more than made up for it because they were besotted with her, and showered her with enough love to make up for my mum.
Okay rant over, and i feel better now already.

Hi Sakura, glad it went well apart from your mother and her threats. It's so great that others find this a therapy thread, as I really do. Sometimes it isn't until I write something to you all that I realise how I am actually feeling and then things click into place.

I had already googled NPD and decided that my mum had it - I think you are right that this is the common thread here with our mums. Obviously there are degrees of it and your mum sounds like she is at the severe end of the spectrum Sakura. It must be nice at least to have others in the family validate your feelings about her, even if they think you should play the game.

I totally understand you feeling hurt at the thought that your mum would WANT to take you to court, let alone do it. I on the other hand feel hurt that my mother seems unconcerned about seeing my children at all, and I think my sadness recently has been that DS2 is now 17 months, and talking and saying the cutest things and they are things I would have been ringing her every day to tell her. It is so sad that she is missing this time, as she hasn't seen him since he was a baby. (And of course DS1 doesn't talk, so it is a particularly joyful time for me and DH).

Having said that, it is her I feel sad for as she is missing out. I still personally don't feel it is that big a deal for my kids,they have all DH's family and as I said once before I didn't know any of my extended family on either side and it has never bothered me.

Hi PAges,
I totally agree that its not a big deal for kids to not have grandparents. Ive seen you mention this before on this thread, and I believe this too. My DH was born after both sets of grandparents had died. It has had absolutely no impact on him. An aunt of his on his dads side (still alive) seemed to have taken over the role of granny anyway. We sometimes go to see her on Sundays where she insists on cooking food etc. I was slightly worried for a while that the reasons DD would have no contact with her grandmother might upset her. My mother, as a last stab of getting control before I came home. She sent a beautiful toy addressed to DD, with a special message on it just for her. It was as if she was telling me "I am going to do <span class="italic">anything</span> I can to keep hurting you. If I cant take you to court, Im going to reach your DD in another way" She knew that I would be wracked with guilt about what to do with the toy. Should I keep it for DD to see in the future and ask about? Or should I throw it away and face my mother one day telling DD that she tried so hard to make contact, but I wouldnt let her? I decided to throw it away instead of having it stored in my house. If it was given out of love instead of malice, I would have kept it, but it was just another way to get one up over me. I thought as long as I can look myself in the mirror and know that I do the things I do are because I think they are right at the time, then I`ll be able to explain to DD why I am making these decisions if the time ever comes.

Oh and, I think that my mother has zero interest in meeting my DD. If she was interested, she would have jumped at the chance of my offer to meet us one afternoon. My plan was to take it from there, and meet up with her again. She responded my telling my DH that she was taking me to court for access. It was not about wanting to see DD, but about having control over me, and telling me that she couldn`t put up with doing anything on my terms. It had to be on her terms , or not at all. Like a six year old child really. I mean, who in this life can have everything on their terms? We all have to give and take to get along with people. But not my mum, of course.
So I think this lack of love for grandchildren is something our mothers share PAges, its just that they are showing it differently.

Don't you guys realise that you're behaving exactly like your mothers? ie. you're the control freaks?

You won't like this post but remember I have a point of view too, I have been on m/net for at least 5 years (so complain away) and I have a dd1 who's probably older than you ie 33 and a dd2 who's 10.

And please don't do what you did last time, ie tell me I couldn't post on your thread, it's the world wide web fgs.

CAMy, I don't think we are anything like our mothers, I am certainly not like mine. It's one thing to be cotrolling, but another to treat your child like shite.

I have never told my dd she is ugly & not loveable (because of a birth defect I was born with that was my mothers fault, which actually leads me to be very insecure, even now)
I have never & will never steal money from my daughter.
I haven't told her I wish she was never born.
I have never put a series of men beore her
I have never put her in danger by inviting said men into house after only knowing them a few hours.
I have never told her that she isn't her dad's & that I have no idea who her father is.
I have never/will never beat her up for standing up for herself.
I wont tel her that is she hasn't left home shortly after her 18th, she will come home & find her belongings on the front lawn.

of course you are welcome to post where you like, but most of us here are having a very hard time coming to terms with the fact that our mothers hated us, didn't want us, never loved us. etc.

A little understanding, please!

Oh & I was told that she tried to self abort me because she only wanted 3, not 4 children.

Also, I fail to see the relevance of your children's ages & time on MN.

Camy,
You might not like to hear this, but you are actually behaving like our mothers. First of all, can you link to where someone told you not to post? I remember the thread I think and you were told not to treat other peoples feelings so callously. If you couldnT do that, then yes, it would be better not to post. And that brings me to my second point. The people here are hurting terribly at having parents with personality disorders (in my case the narcissistic personality disorder). Having someone trivialise that hurt is characteristic of this personality disorder. We are allready used to our mothers doing that, so having some random person mumsnet do it is quite astonishing. These people with NPD believe that only their feelings are valid. When you say that you dont believe its as bad as we say etc etc, you are actually behaving like my mum, because you <span class="italic">can</span> <span class="italic">never</span> <span class="italic">know</span> how Im feeling or why I do things unless you are me. Which is why I donT think its appropriate to judge people unless youve walked a mile in their shoes. THe women on here have come together for support. ANother characteristic of narcissistic personality disorder is attention seeking. THese people dont care if the attention is negative, in fact they prefer it that way, because they feel powerful if they can get a reaction out of people. THe fact that you, CAMy, insist on hunting us around mumsnet on different threads, with nothing constructive or helpful to say, except cause a bit of pain and to get a reaction from us is yet&#12288;<span class="italic">another</span> characterstic that reminds me of our mothers. I think you have a bad relationship with your daughter or child in real life. I cant think why else you would want to post the hurtful things that you do.

And yet another characteristic of NPD is using strange and confusing yardsticks to measure and justify weird or hurtful behaviour. Mentioning your time on mumsnet has no connection to the hurtful things you say. I could tell you I`ve been on here much longer than that, and what would that prove? Does it mean my opinions hold more weight? Does the fact you have children mean that you know more about my mother than me? Very strange. And very sad, really.

CAMy
I wasn't even going to react to your flippant post! But I am still at why you felt you had to post on this thread in the 1st place!
Your post had no significance to this thread at all. Thats unless you feel what we are saying is 'hitting home' & saying some home truths about the person you really are.
So I suggest you take your disrespectful advise somewhere else.

well I wasn't going to retort either but I will - I think if you want to say something CAM, then blardy well say it woman. Then we can debate what you're saying.

Throwing 'you're all control freaks' into the conversation is hardly constructive criticism!

if you've got a point, then let's hear it.

I swear to god, a little stab like that would be exactly the kind of thing my mum would try to do. A year or two ago, that comment would have left me thinking "Oh no, am I really a control freak...?"
But after overcoming everything with my mum, I can spot people like her a mile away.
I think Musiclover is right about something "hitting home" with CAMy.

Chill out, girls. Its just something my dh said referring to that book, is it called Toxic Parents? Basically my dh thinks that when you guys say that if you confront your parents and they come back with denials, then they are evidently "guilty" it is the complete opposite to normal understanding, eg in a court of law.

I'm not "chasing you around the board" this thread was in active convos.

Your DH thinks?

What do you think, Camy?

You were posting unpleasantly last night. I reported the other one you made. This one I left because I felt it was better to stand than to say message deleted.

Why are you reporting my posts just because I disagree with you?