Help!

[RitaOra2]

Hi, this is my first post on this site, after searching through other posts trying to find a situation like mine, looking for answers and advice. My DH of 15 years is cross with me all of the time. It goes through phases over what it is about and over the last two years has included me being a dirty who has cheated on him several times (I haven't) , then me spending all of our money on crap that we don't need (I am always careful), then me bringing up the children wrong (they are doing well at school) and more recently how I never keep the house organised or put anything in the right place. Each phase lasts several months and at the moment he seems completely obsessed over my disorganisation. He does not have much basis for what he says but he becomes fixed on it and if I argue back or loose my temper over it then he says that I am a liar, paranoid, stupid and emotionally abusing him. I have worked hard to bring up the children and keep the house the best I can, however, I do also work and study which amounts to full time hours and have children that demand a lot of my time. My DH spends most of his spare time doing DIY, sleeping or playing on the x-box, he will sometimes do some housework. He has an lot of bitterness towards me and I feel that he hates me. When I try to discuss it with him he will just bombard me with all the stuff that I have done wrong and if I try to speak he puts his fingers in his ears and orders me to leave the room. I am posting on here because I don't know what to do. I am feeling quite anxious and low which is further affecting my ability to keep the house tidy, but I feel that even if I achieved perfection then he would find something else. Is he depressed? Has he just become a horrible person? Is it me? Have I driven him crazy? Should we just split up? Sorry...all I want is an informed opinion. Thank you.

During your talk listen for how he dismisses your feelings and blames you. He will use anything you 'share' with him, ie what upsets you, angers you, any criticism of him to further abuse you.

He will become Mr nice for a while if he thinks you may be looking to leave, so watch for this.

What good points does this man have?

If he is depressed then he will treat everyone this way, his boss, his father, his friends. Is this the case? Or does he reserve his nastiness for you. He is abusing his dd by saying her mother is a disgusting pig. If her teacher said 'I don't let billy sit at the front of the mat because he is a pig' it would not be acceptable? If the teacher was depressed? If it was a colleague about another colleague. Your dh knows it is unacceptable, he knows it hurts you and he knows it hurts your dd. she is learning that her future boyfriends can call her a pig and it is acceptable.

My ex used to buy Mother's Day and birthday cards with words to hurt me. He said I wasn't kind or caring or patient, instead I was selfish and mean. So he would get dd (aged 3/4) to give me cards saying 'to my patient, wonderful, kind caring mum'. I guess he did this to see the tears well up as I read it, knowing he had gone to a shop and elected to buy a card to hurt me...

Try and Read the Lundy book prior to your talk. If you are a nice person it's sometimes hard to believe there are such nasty wankers in the world, you want to see the best in people. However some are rotten to the core and they won't change.

(You know when your stomach turns when you hear the key turn in the lock? When he's gone that eventually stops happening).

Cross posted.

He's nasty op. Really nasty. This is not normal. You will be better off without him.

I split with my ex and have since married, it's amazing how good a normal relationship is. No anxiety. I'm on holiday from work this week, dh is a sahd - there's a pile of pots next to our sink and I'm blatantly mumsnetting. Sometimes I get in from work and clean the lunch pots. It doesn't matter.

If the house was spotless he would criticise you for something else (probably not spending time with the kids cos you spend too much time cleaning).

You don't need this xxx

Look up gas lighting. This is what he is doing regarding his denial of what he said about you.

Did you leave the room?

He's gaslighting you. This is why there's no use talking to an abuser or trying to change him. Focus on yourself, your self-esteem. Make a plan, stick to it and when his hold over you is gone, beware the nice-guy act, it's fake.

You explaining why you hadn't finished the washing up was weird. My immediate response would have been along the lines of "Why the fuck didn't you do it before you went for a run if it bothers you so much?! And why did you leave your frying pan out all afternoon, clean up after yourself!"

If it were my DH, he'd immediately apologise profusely for being a twat. But actually I can't imagine him carrying on like that in the first place.

Very far from normal: his behaviour and your response to it.

you sound like an absolute doormat

I hope you turn soon and show your kids that no one should tolerate being treated like this

Thank you. Yes I did leave the room. I used to reply with something like 'well you could have done it yourself you miserable git' but that would make him shout more and upset the kids and it would also back up his theory that I am abusing him. To be honest the nice guy act doesn't happen. He never apologises for anything because he is so sure that he is completely right about me and that I deserve what I get. If I say sorry, he says that it is just meaningless words anyway. He is so sure that I am a nasty deceitful person that lives like a pig and has cheated on him. Usually things just blow over. I have lost my temper with him many times and ranted at him when the kids are not here, but that also backs up his theory that I am abusing him and what makes it worse is that I am doing it sneakily so that no-one can hear me. Anyway, sorry for going on....I am not even sure what my point is anymore! Good night.

tell him that you you are seeing a solicitor for a divorce, the chances are he back pedals & is more than repentant ( text book AE fuckwittery)

Go and see a lawyer. Keep it to yourself, get your ducks lined up and kick him out. He is a complete bastard. You're going to thrive without him!

Thank you for your messages. Just wanted to let you know that I have done what you recommended, I have ordered the book and emailed WA for details of a solicitor. It is hard to get my head around and I am quite in shock to realise just how long this has been going on for. I don't know if I can prove he is emotionally abusing me but I know deep down that he is and that is enough for me to get out of the relationship now. I have just one thing that I would like to know, so if you can please help me:
Does he know what he is doing or is it on an unconscious level? i.e. does he really believe all the stuff he says about me to be true or is he saying it to get to me?*

Who knows Rita and either way the effect is the same.
He probably thinks he is absolutely right and you do deserve this treatment but there is also probably a small part of him buried deep that knows he's wrong. He will have to keep a very tight lid on that though because if he acknowledged it he would also have to face his true nature which he can't.
Total amateur Psychology there by the way based on my own toxic family so I could be totally off the mark.

Does it matter? Both options are terrifiying.

If he believes it all then he's a seriously delusional idiot. That would scary. Who knows what "faults" he might imagine next. Also, his reaction is wrong. He believes it is acceptable to abuse you if he judges you to have failed. Um, no. Even if you were all the things he said, his reaction to it would still be 100% wrong. It is like he is the cruel master and you are the dog to be kept in place.

If he does not believe it, if he knows what he is doing, then he is one sadistic fucker.

Which do you prefer to believe?

I hope you get out OK and get back to being yourself again.

You don't have to prove it to anybody, least of all him. All you have to be sure about is that your marriage has irretrievably broken down. His behaviour does sound awfully unreasonable to me, and I think everyone on this thread, but the point is that as long as you find it unreasonable that's what matters. You're the one who has to live with it. By the sound of it your children also find it unreasonable, or worse, may learn that this kind of interaction between spouses is normal. I don't need to tell you this is not good for them now or in the future when they are of an age to form partnerships themselves.

As for whether you're abusing him: do the poor man a favour and set him free. Spare him your unkind words and slovenly ways. Give him the space to run his own household in the style he prefers. And see how he likes them apples.

I know that I am getting annoying over this, but sorry you lot are the only people that I can talk to and I really value your opinions. So here goes. One more situation from this morning. I really need honest opinions. In fact if you tell me that I should not have interfered and by doing so I was being controlling then I would understand that. Thanks and sorry for having to post again.

DH has been ok over the weekend. Not kind or apologetic, just not mean, we have pretty much steered clear of one another, plus he did make dinner on Saturday.
DH has just got up.
DH to DD: ‘don’t just step on a tissue that is on the floor, pick it up’ (loud, angry voice).
DD: ‘No, Its not mine, I didn’t drop it. I don't want to touch it, its dirty'.
DH: It doesn’t matter you don’t just leave it there, am I the only person that cares about this house. You pick it up. (louder, angrier)
Me: Please leave her alone. I don’t think she should have to pick up a dirty tissue that’s not hers. (calmy but infront of DD)
DH: Its not alright to just walk over a tissue on the floor, why should I have to pick it up. Your behaving like a pig, you are being a pig like your mother. Oh yes, you are taking after her aren’t you. (shouting). He picks up the tissue.
DD: visibly slumps her shoulders looks down at the floor, looks crushed.

Please leave/divorce/kick him out. What a horrible way to live for you but especially your daughters.

My stomach is going over just reading about it.

You see I agree that someone shouldn't just step over rubbish on the floor (although my kids do it all the time!) but that's where he and I part company. he should've said (calmly) "can you pick that tissue up please while you're passing darling?" That's it. Not angry. Not insulting. Not abusive . Just that

You have lost perspective of what's acceptable because you've been living with unacceptable for so long

He's a shit and he's abusing you and your DC. Calling you a pig is unforgivable, but now he's got another target, your DD.

There's only one pig in your household and its your horrible husband. Do him a favour and let him wallow in his own shit elsewhere, away from you and your DC.

I have called him a pig before, but in a different context, and in private (I cant remember exactly why just know I was really angry with him). I said something like, 'I hate you, you bloody pig'. As you have pointed out it is unforgivable. I am not faultless, maybe I have asked for this?

You are being abused OP. He is abusing you and gaslighting you so that you feel it is somehow your fault.

You need to get support for yourself. Have you looked up the WA website? Especially the section on what abuse is. If not, it is here .

This environment is not healthy for children to grow up in, and not only are they learning about relationships from watching yours, but now he is turning on them. It is not acceptable, and as their mother it is up to you to protect them from this.

It is natural to want to find reasons for his behaviour, but his behaviour is not your responsibility and you don't need to find excuses for it. Depression is not the cause of his behaviour,whether he is depressed or not. He is a bully. A vile nasty man, who, as you say yourself, will never change because he believes he is right.

How would you feel if your daughter grew up and married a man who treats her this way? You would want her to leave, right? But you are teaching her that this is normal and acceptable. It is now time to show her that it is not, and allow your children to grow up in a happy and relaxed environment, where they are not walking on eggshells around their abusive father.

You are not being annoying by asking for reassurance. Posters will be here to reassure you every step of the way. MN is great for this.

Thank you for your advice. I know that you keep telling me the same thing and deep down I do believe you. I don't even see why I can't face it. If I was reading this I would hate me for being such a weakling. I have always put my children first but I keep find myself worrying about him even when he has been so mean. Sometimes I find myself day dreaming that he meets someone else with her own flat and moves in with her, or wins the lottery and starts a new life !!! Thanks again.

You know he's emotionally abusing your children don't you?

If you really were always putting your children first, then you wouldn't be with this man a second longer.

Don't hate yourself. You're living in the middle of it. You post here how things are now and we outsiders can clearly see it's not right; but you have been gradually brought to this point through having your buttons pressed. He isn't pressing ours. He's sucked you in so far that you can't see the riverbank and we're standing on the side shouting advice on how to pull yourself out. A lot of us have been there. We sound strong because we learned the hard way, by living it - and then reaching the point where we wouldn't, or couldn't, live like it any more.

You do not have to put up with this. You don't have to wait for your H to call time (he may never - imagine him shouting at you when you're both 70? It happens!). This will no doubt mean a massive lifestyle change and all sorts of mental adjustments, which can take years, but here is where you start thinking the previously unthinkable. It is OK to LTB (that's Leave The Bastard if you are not familiar with the acronyms on here). You have the right and may be surprised to learn it is quite do-able. Also consider, as I said the other day, that this is not a good atmosphere for your children. So not only is it OK to LTB, it is your duty to start taking steps to do so.

FWIW I agree with *BitOutOfPractice, DD should really have picked up the tissue (if she noticed it - my DC wouldn't have) but the rant was out of all proportion and totally the wrong way to go about correcting it. Besides, if he saw her step on it he must have seen it was on the floor and failed to pick it up himself. Setting a good example? Or is tidiness just for females other people? There's at least one pig in your household but I'm not at all convinced it's you.

Thank you. The thing is about my DD is she is really funny to the point of obsessive about germs and touching people, so other peoples tissues are her worst enemy. That's why I stuck up for her, if it had been a sweet wrapper / piece of paper I would agree that she should pick it up, however, as you've said I would have asked her nicely.

And for everything else you say, I know it's true and your advice is completely reasonable & very helpful. I am building up the strength to split up with him but for some reason I feel so guilty over it!

I had just started to get my head around things. DH had moved into the spare room and was pretty much ignoring me. I was planning 'the talk' and if that failed arranging to separate. He has suddenly decided to talk to me because his cousin (a 25 year old male) and possibly another cousin (20 year old female) want to move to England, so until they sort themselves out with somewhere to live and work then they want to stay with us. I suppose its good that he sought to discuss this with me. However when I asked, 'do they have money to finance themselves here' he got angry and shouted at me 'how can I say that about his cousin?'. So I asked how long they would need to stay for and then he got angry about that as well. So I shouted back that I didn't want them to stay here because he is horrible to me all of the time and I can barely cope with it anymore let alone bringing more people in to the house. Plus he is in the spare room so there is nowhere for them to stay, plus the children would not like it at all because we don't even know them. He shouted that they are family and they are welcome and he will tell them tonight that they can come. Perhaps I am being unreasonable? What do you think please?