My own horrible behaviour

[elderflowerlemonade]

This is a really difficult post, not least because no one likes having to really look at themselves and conclude they don't like what they see but that's what I am doing.

I have been responsible for a great deal of hurt and unhappiness in my family for some time now and I am not deluded enough to think it's all my fault or my responsibility but it's certainly there.

Now that I have said that I don't know where to begin! I was only 18 when met my DH. My mum had died when I was in secondary school and my dad met another woman quite soon afterwards and moved in with her on a sort of ad hoc basis, which meant as I did my A levels I was almost constantly alone. That was quite hard for me (obviously) as I was lonely and grieving and I threw myself into my interests - music and horses mostly - which meant I was quite isolated. DH was a few years older than me and seemed very together (he was 23; I know 5 years is nothing but at that age it was.) I clung to him like a limpet because he was sort of the one constant in my life.

Anyway, I have made such a mess of things I hardly know where to start so I'll do a list:

1. I have messed up career wise, I was a teacher and the first school I went to was awful - really, really bad. So I got a new job quite soon afterwards and I liked it there and initially I did really well. But then I got pregnant and I had terrible sickness and exhaustion and then I went back part time and I now realise I got really lazy. I left, when we moved and I got another post which was a small promotion but I had a horrible time of things there and I don't know, I look at people now who have a strong network of people they work(ed) with and wonder why I was never good enough to stick at anything, to have that. I've been a SAHM for a few years now.

1. I resented my dad for years for leaving me (as I saw it) - he stayed with his new partner until after I'd had my DC1 which was in 2007. I was stroppy and unpleasant with him and I just wasn't someone he could be proud of. He died and the week before we'd had a massive argument and I said he was useless and all sorts of things - I am still not entirely sure I didn't cause or at least contribute to him dying as he'd been perfectly healthy before.

1. I am so selfish. I do exactly what I want to do and I expect other people to sort out messes I make. I don't do this intentionally but I had a thread the other day about losing my phone (have now found it again!) but this is typical of me; I lose stuff or forget to do important stuff and it's like I haven't got a proper handle on being a grown up. Then I tell lies to get myself out of whatever mess I've created. I'll say I've done something when I haven't, or been at home when I've been shopping.

I need to really be firm with myself and honest with myself too about the impact my behaviour has had on those I love but it's hard. I had counselling after I had DC2 last spring and I liked it but I don't think the counsellor quite understood how selfish and lazy and spoilt I have been and just seemed to think I was too harsh on myself but I'm honestly not. Sometimes I wake up haunted by the stupid things I've done and mistakes I've made and how badly I've treated people.

I don't dislike everything about myself. I like my humour. That's never fully gone which is one reason I have managed to get through as I generally can laugh at myself. I know I can have a very sweet caring side which sometimes shows itself but I have to admit to my husband and to my dad when he was alive I just wasn't nice, at all.

Has anybody ever had this experience of forcing yourself to change and how do you start?

elderflower a few things jump out at me:

DH can be controlling; we are working on this.
We are working on that yet he expects you to work on your issues. He needs to work on being controlling it is his problem.

DH is controlling but I also have to recognise he's controlling because I've let him be controlling.
No. He chooses to be controlling. I don't even try to be controlling towards my partner/family because I don't want to be. I choose not to. In fact it doesn't even enter my head that it would be acceptable. Controlling isn't default behaviour that has to be prevented by another person.

And as for the looong list of all the things you need to approve on, where is his support in this? What is he doing about fixing things before they break, getting the house or garden straight etc?

No-one can keep on top of that list without support. Seriously.

Nothing in any of your behaviour you've described suggests you are lazy, spoilt or horrible.

OK, you are crap and useless and a disgrace - your parents would be ashamed if they knew; you're self-indulgent, arrogant, lazy, manipulative, clumsy, messy, irresponsible. Have I missed anything out? Feel free to add to the list - I'm sure you'll have no problem

OR there are some recognisable crosswires going on that with a bit of expert input you can get a handle on one way or another

OR your parents controlled you so much you didn't get to tick off even basic developmental milestones; then they disappeared and you were left an amoeba without a shell questionable analogy and you generally flopped about and made do - in particular capitalising on your quavers diet to get good grades to excel in academia [pause to perhaps celebrate something you are VERY GOOD AT - but no, wait, you didn't work too hard for that so it of course doesn't count] but you still hadn't ticked off those developmental milestones...

Take your pick - or a selection. But be sure to beat yourself - no mercy allowed - with the conclusion. As per usual: all roads end in 'elderflower is a dog'

What about your DH's abuse towards you? Physical coercion of you? In front of your DS, on one occasion, wasn't it?

And the fact that you (rightly IMO) wouldn't allow him to see your DC unsupervised?

How does all that fit your 'I'm a terrible person and it's all my fault' narrative?

Regardless of whatever work you need to do on yourself, you don't deserve to be in an abusive marriage and your DC deserve better as well.

Have now read the thread ...will add to what I said ...
The scattiness, procrastination, messiness all could be a sign of ADHD. I really think you should ask the GP for a possible diagnosis ...
Interesting what PP said about little girl and the grieving and loss - for different reasons but that's what my councillor said to me (25 yrs ago) when I was suicidally depressed. Also I was a perfectionist - nothing I did was ever good enough.
Since then I have got a 2.1 from a top uni - I was lucky - I left my revision till the night before each module. And a Phd ..because contrary to popular belief someone with ADHD can concentrate/focus on something that catches their interest - but too much -they can become almost obsessed. I also left writing my thesis to the last minute - I wrote my 80,000+ word thesis that usually takes 6 months in less than 6 weeks to a deadline - (I did hardly sleep - 4 hrs in 48hrs once). I could argue if you are bright you are more able to cover up your symptoms/develop coping strategies ...
I also self medicate and have done for years. I am a caffeine addict - I really can't function without coffee. I drink instant made with 3-4 spoons, can't get espresso strong enough. If I have to concentrate on anything I will drink cup after cup. Caffeine has been investigated as a possible medication for ADHD. (Nicotine is another common stimulant that has been investigated and a large percentage of people with ADHD are/were smokers).
I had read some things and suspected DD1 had ADHD for years - but it all fell into place with her diagnosis for me too. I do still beat myself up about things sometimes but actually I find it easier to forgive myself for my 'failings', I am aware of how under control I keep myself - and let myself have a break where possible to just be me - and give myself the odd pat on the back. I am happier and more relaxed in general.
But having said all that ....
Your DH does sound controlling -some things you have said make me uncomfortable. You do need to take a good look at your relationship and either work (with DH) on changing the dynamic or make a clean break.
If you struggle to organise yourself and someone else will do it for you it is very easy to let them and then they do take control and become controlling.
(I have to say here that I also suspect that DP has ADHD too -which apparently isn't that uncommon, we attract each other - but he is less self disciplined than I am and he does lean on me to organise him and I am the one in control (scary thought!) But I'm trying to get him to take more responsibility for himself and be less controlling and I am also trying not to get so cross when he does lose things, has another car crash and interrupts! But it is something we are both working on ...)

Or take a break and try living on your own. It doesn't sound like you have a healthy relationship at the moment.
You are also saying some things that sound like you are depressed (common in undiagnosed neuro-diversity). Which you also need help with - whether you do have ADHD or ASD - or are 'normal'.
Get to your GP...tomorrow ... no procrastination!

Many thanks for your replies. It's been a long and exhausting day.

George - he is sorry for that and it was as much my fault as his, that occasion.

Unlucky I honestly don't think I have ADHD. I have asked someone I respect and who knew me well what the thought and their exact response was 'have you bollocks' - I AM lazy though.

At the moment I just feel crippled with isolation and very very unhappy as a result but I'm not sure that there is a route out just now (actually I don't think there is one but maybe things will improve!)

elder you may not have - but unless your friend is an expert I'd take his opinion with a pinch of salt.
My sister said the same to me - more or less the same words...then I said what about when I did this oh you were just naughty, well what about X? you were just awkward, stupid, lazy,forgetful etc. When I pointed out the list of what I was 'just' was actually the same as the symptoms of ADHD - she said no you haven't you were just difficult.... Bear in mind we have the same parents etc. No explanation, no reason, I am just a bit of a pathetic crap horrible human being.... and fair enough I might be. I can control all those things - but I find it extremely hard to, all the time.

And seeing as most people don't actually know what the symptoms are ...except maybe being a bit lively sometimes (and I'm not really now) ...they aren't the right people to judge.

If you see any of the symptoms in yourself try and get checked out - a proper diagnosis.
And whatever get yourself to the GP - you sound depressed and you need help.

Is that person an expert in ADHD, seen many cases, used to diagnosing it? Of course not, so why are you taking their word for it.

There's isn't a reason why your husband would be manhandling you which is your fault. He shouldn't be laying his hands on you whatever you do or say.

If you just sit in the same situation, changing nothing, feeling bad, then for sure nothing will happen and you will feel the same.

I do think something has to shift here, with your relationship, with you seeking help/GP/ possible diagnosis or getting into therapy or even all of those things. Even a self-help book might start you off on the right path.

You sound depressed and unable to take action, and so solving that would be my first step.

Wait a second - so you're saying it was partly your fault that he coerced you into sex? Seriously? And it's your fault that he can't see your DC unsupervised?

Also, in light of your recent thread about your DH stalking you on MN and reading all your posts - has he asked you to start this thread? Is he reading the replies?

George I don't know, he hasn't said anything about mumsnet or my posts for a while. He thinks I spend too much time online though. I don't think he really understands what mumsnet is - think he thinks it's just a parenting/baby resource. He definitely didn't ask me to start this thread.

It's my fault, in part, is what I'm saying. Everyone says 'oh LTB and things will be fine' - well I did, and they weren't!

OP, you genuinely haven't described a single instance of horrible behaviour so far.
Laziness is not horrible (and you don't sound lazy). Disorganisation is not horrible. None of what you say is horrible.
I am lazier, more disorganised and messier that you have ever been, but I am not horrible, and my partner would not dream of suggesting I was.

I will say, though, the way you keep emphasising that you you are not innocent in your relationship woes sent a shiver down my spine. Having read the Relationships board for a while, when someone says something like 'I'm no angel either', it usually means they are so confused by their abusive relationship (and/or possibly poor example from their family while growing up) that they have no perspective on good, bad and respectful behaviour.

Well, I've cheated for starters - haven't been faithful. I've deliberately annoyed him and tormented him and goaded him - I don't mean accidentally but I mean going out of my way to irritate and annoy and anger - I've been sulky, moody and unpleasant, deliberately put down anything nice he did try to do, I could go on.

I'm willing to change though.

I see no one has come back on you being a cheat. I don't know elderflower, there are so many strands here I do think it's a case of working on whatever strand presents itself until the weight begins to shift in the right direction.

Suffice to say though that I was abusive towards my terrifyingly abusive ex.. only my abuse was right out there whereas his was silent and deadly and no-one, I mean no-one, saw it. Easy to say I was acting it out..

It sounds to me like you are trying to find out where the boundaries are and are both blaming yourself and expecting/wanting to be punished for bad behaviour.

I wonder if this is a result of missing out on having the parent figure who set and maintained your boundaries in a loving way, allowing you to 'push back' and gain your independence at the right pace?

I think the teenage rebellion is a normal part of growing up and you missed out because your dad left you to yourself when he needed to be around to regulate you - giving you boundaries but also allowing you to test things out safely.

elderflower, I recently saw a friend why had a very similar experience to you. with her mother dying, her grieving father moving onto to a very hostile stepmother. anyway it really broke her, and for a long time she had depression and addiction issues. Its only now we are both mothers, we can look back and really acknowledge how shit it was.

I only share that to share a view that what you experienced was very hard indeed, and its so understandable you were upset with your dad. and as others said, of course you did not make him die,

you don't sound bad, just very human.

read the advice, and do that self development work in what version works for you. you are worth it OP

There is something not right with your marriage. He sounds very critical. What practical things does he do to combat the mess around the house?

OP, I'm slightly confused as to whether you are still with your husband or not, but I don't like the sound of the way he makes you feel. You said at one point that most people (except him) would say you are nice, but you and he know the truth, which is that you aren't. Well, that sounds to me far more like emotional abuse and gaslighting than anything being wrong with you. Do you have anyone in your life who is kind to you, or are you isolated? Your brother sounds nice, do you have much contact with him?

How can anyone blame the dh for taking control of situations when the op admits she is disorganised and chaotic!

I am too and my dh taking control of some things is truly what I need to help me start again. If too much is going on my head wants to explode! With three DC and all they entail plus the house it does get on top of me!

Anyway I'm guessing these things make you feel inadequate, like you aren't good enough? They do me but I've got no solution yet except to try and stay on top of things.

You admitted earlier to being a liar and later to being a cheat.

I think you take your husbands love for granted and I'm not sure you treat him very nicely. Though it's odd how some folk here have been determined to overlook that.

You have admitted you aren't being very nice to him, well I wonder how your children perceive all of this?

It's all going in. Can't you see how you grew up, messed you up and now you are (by not resolving your issues) reflecting the into your own adult life and by default all of those around you will be affected.

I'm not being harsh but I have to be honest and say I agree that you aren't a very nice person at times. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can keep lashing out at your husband. We all have our boundaries.

I mean, I believe you know, not tidying up isn't horrible behaviour?

I think really you were meaning all of the other bad things you do which can be hard to admit when everyone here is being very accommodating......

I think you'd be amazed how many competent adults actually often feel they are faking it and don't have a complete grip , just no one knows anyone else is doing the same thing!

Elder, hmm, I've been really vile to DP - venomous, aggressive, spiteful, contemptuous. Yep. Nasty stuff. But that's about my fuckuppery. And I'm always sorry and remorseful. Are you? Or do you feel (for longer than a few moments) pleased that you behaved like that to him? I very much doubt you do. I bet you then beat yourself up about how horrible you've been to him.

But I most want to say, you sound lovely to me! Feisty, lively, clever, reflective, not absorbed by the utterly tedious shite of a tidy house.