My own horrible behaviour

[elderflowerlemonade]

This is a really difficult post, not least because no one likes having to really look at themselves and conclude they don't like what they see but that's what I am doing.

I have been responsible for a great deal of hurt and unhappiness in my family for some time now and I am not deluded enough to think it's all my fault or my responsibility but it's certainly there.

Now that I have said that I don't know where to begin! I was only 18 when met my DH. My mum had died when I was in secondary school and my dad met another woman quite soon afterwards and moved in with her on a sort of ad hoc basis, which meant as I did my A levels I was almost constantly alone. That was quite hard for me (obviously) as I was lonely and grieving and I threw myself into my interests - music and horses mostly - which meant I was quite isolated. DH was a few years older than me and seemed very together (he was 23; I know 5 years is nothing but at that age it was.) I clung to him like a limpet because he was sort of the one constant in my life.

Anyway, I have made such a mess of things I hardly know where to start so I'll do a list:

1. I have messed up career wise, I was a teacher and the first school I went to was awful - really, really bad. So I got a new job quite soon afterwards and I liked it there and initially I did really well. But then I got pregnant and I had terrible sickness and exhaustion and then I went back part time and I now realise I got really lazy. I left, when we moved and I got another post which was a small promotion but I had a horrible time of things there and I don't know, I look at people now who have a strong network of people they work(ed) with and wonder why I was never good enough to stick at anything, to have that. I've been a SAHM for a few years now.

1. I resented my dad for years for leaving me (as I saw it) - he stayed with his new partner until after I'd had my DC1 which was in 2007. I was stroppy and unpleasant with him and I just wasn't someone he could be proud of. He died and the week before we'd had a massive argument and I said he was useless and all sorts of things - I am still not entirely sure I didn't cause or at least contribute to him dying as he'd been perfectly healthy before.

1. I am so selfish. I do exactly what I want to do and I expect other people to sort out messes I make. I don't do this intentionally but I had a thread the other day about losing my phone (have now found it again!) but this is typical of me; I lose stuff or forget to do important stuff and it's like I haven't got a proper handle on being a grown up. Then I tell lies to get myself out of whatever mess I've created. I'll say I've done something when I haven't, or been at home when I've been shopping.

I need to really be firm with myself and honest with myself too about the impact my behaviour has had on those I love but it's hard. I had counselling after I had DC2 last spring and I liked it but I don't think the counsellor quite understood how selfish and lazy and spoilt I have been and just seemed to think I was too harsh on myself but I'm honestly not. Sometimes I wake up haunted by the stupid things I've done and mistakes I've made and how badly I've treated people.

I don't dislike everything about myself. I like my humour. That's never fully gone which is one reason I have managed to get through as I generally can laugh at myself. I know I can have a very sweet caring side which sometimes shows itself but I have to admit to my husband and to my dad when he was alive I just wasn't nice, at all.

Has anybody ever had this experience of forcing yourself to change and how do you start?

[smile-] springy!

No, I mean that I don't feel changing is something I can do through therapy or similar. It had its place but it ended up being too - self indulgent?

DH is controlling but I also have to recognise he's controlling because I've let him be controlling.

7 months is nowhere near enough I'm afraid. It would probably take that much time to tease out the issues, but not enough to reframe your thinking about them and then put them back to bed. I'm learning that myself. I've had about 4 months of weekly sessions in which I have unpacked some experiences and we have worked out some main issues, but I now realise that I am only at the very start of the process.

No one is innocent, we all have a part to play in our behaviour, but if we can work out why we do it then we can change it.

Maybe some self help books - that's where I started.

Lovely, you are bereaved - twice over by the sound of it.

And now you genuinely think you killed your dad. No wonder you think you are a Bad Person.

Fwiw - imo he let you down. You were a girl, going through A levels ffs - and he buggered off 'because he was bereaved'. And you, how about you? You'd lost your mum ffs, you were going through your A levels - where was he, your only parent left? You NEEDED him then. Throwing money at you later in life doesn't pay for that huge hole he didn't attend to. Which made a crater. Then you clung to an older guy - father figure? - who seems to still be acting like he's your dad, with admonitions, 'could do better's.

That's just for starters. Ffs, give yourself a break elderflower. At least find out what was going on with your dad's heart when he died - ppl don't die of rows (and anyway he had it coming re the neglect when you were so vulnerable and needed him SO much). And have some compassion on that poor girl stuck on her own in that house

Thank you for such s lovely message.

I think my dad did regret what he did but I used it as an excuse for stuff too.

He had the row coming, I should say. Not the other thing - of course!

I knew what you meant x

It's not an excuse, it's a reason.

For fifteen years though?

I just feel I haven't made a go, or a success of anything.

I just came across another thread by you and though heavily pregnant you are looking to go back to work ..this is probably going to leave you repeating your behaviour of point 1..you are intelligent and know this
This has confused me and I dont understand the repeating cycle you seem to be stuck in.
What are you trying to achieve ? When you say you want to improve your horrible behaviour what does that look like to you ? & Can you describe what "good behaviour" would be ?

It wouldn't be repeating behaviour of point 1.

It's to try to make a go of things before my qualifications are wasted completely. I am ov obviously not planning to get a position and make a mess of said position.

I'm not intelligent but thanks

I suppose good behaviour would be:

On top of things more. Keep the house and garden straight. Reasonably organised - not always rushing and stressed. Not forgetting to pay things or send things off or sort things out - I have a horrible habit of waiting until something is actually broken before fixing it.

A job and purpose of some description. A varied social life and friends, and hobbies.

Eat well, keep fit through exercise. Look after myself - wear nice clothes, underwear, makeup,my it just when DH is around.

You are broken-hearted, neglected, bereaved. We can do an awful lot about an awful lot but we can't do everything about everything - some things are out of our control (a lot, actually, but that's besides the point).

You suffered a series of significant strikes at a very vulnerable time in your life; and the effects of that are still apparent now. As they would go - that's how it goes.

Welcome to the fucked-up club! Plenty of us about. With a bit of work - and a LOT of compassion - you realise you've done remarkably well to achieve what you have.

So. Which poll for everybody reading on

1. Feel On top of things

2 house straight 3 garden straight 4 organised 5 not rushed or stressed 6 dont forget to pay things 7 things are promptly sorted out 8 things are fixed before they break 9 hold down a job 10 have a purpose 11 keep fit 12 have a social life ( varied) 13 have hobbies 14 wear nice clothes 15 wear makeup 16 not have ugly underwear And 17 Bring up kids...let's not forget that one

I'm a high achiever..on a good day I score four off that list. Anybody else ?

Other people do see, to manage it, though

I dont think they do...but I'm willing to be proved wrong

yep, four seems about right - five with a following wind....

Elder my Dad died when I was at secondary school and my Mum changed personality almost overnight. She changed the dynamics by taking in a succession of lodgers and getting her own social life sorted out. I felt in the way and not important enough to warrant attention of any kind, either praise or chastisement.

I tried conforming (doing lots of cooking and cleaning and laundry) which was met with indifference or scorn, and I tried rebelling (smoking, staying out, drinking) which was met with indifference, distrust and disgust.

I ended up very insecure, blaming myself and thinking I'm a failure, in all aspects of my life. And was told I was 'neurotic'.

It was only when I became a parent myself that I realised just what I had missed from having lost my Dad and being effectively abandoned by my Mum.

I sounds as if you have missed out on the experience of having a parent who gave you the security of unconditional love which is necessary for developing self-worth and resilience. This is not your fault. It never was.

The positive is that you can learn a huge amount from what happened to you and you can turn things around for your family. You are demonstrating a powerful desire to be a good person, and that in itself speaks volumes. Give yourself some credit.

I of course agree that your argument or even your general behaviour had nothing to do with your dad's death, if arguments and misbehaving children caused people to die, I would have died a long time ago and my mother would never have reached the age she did either.

As for the rest, I think I might tick one or two of that list, but I was never good at multitasking.

The only purpose of guilt is to plan to do things different in the future and, if necessary, to apologise to anyone we have hurt. Otherwise it is only suffering for the sake of suffering. Instead of feeling guilty put your plans into place for reasonable changes you can make.

Would you be able to afford a cleaner when you get back to work, for example? I'm hopeless at cleaning so I pay a cleaner, otherwise the house would be uninhabitable. Maybe you are a bit of a horder, could you start throwing some things out and giving other things away?

Lots of good advice here already but just wanted to echo that your dad's death won't have been down to you. Tons of people die of previously undiagnosed heart conditions, many of them people who seem perfectly fine - think of Fabrice Muamba, the footballer who collapsed and technically died on the pitch a couple of years ago. It's very likely this was the case.

Thank you for such lovely replies.

I am actually semi seriously considering a cleaner, but the issue isn't just cleanliness but if I am honest tidiness I do have a big clean and tidy, but I do things like leave clothes on the floor, leave stuff out.

When we first bought a house together I kept it nice but it was quite a new modern house and we've moved a few times since and I don't know, it's like I lost heart somewhere along the line.

A messy environment can make us feel messy and out of control... which makes us more messy and hopeless. Vicious circle.

There have been a few threads on MN over the years started by people who are hopeless with things like housework/organisation and crying out for help, despairing, and those threads have run and run with people piling in, either identifying or super-organised types posting tips. I genuinely think it's the luck of the draw which type we are - and despite the 'cleanliness/godliness' debate (which goes deep with women if we're honest...) is no reflection AT ALL on our personal worth. Easy to say when I feel shit about myself if I get too slovenly (always a risk).

I also think trauma can jam the airwaves. As I've already posted, I'm a traumatised sort and certainly have times - loooong times - when I can't get my act together domestically/organisationally. It doesn't help that by nature I'm an organised type. What to do? Have compassion.

Or tune into the domestic slut narrative doing the rounds - Julie Birchill et al. Oh to be devoid of conscience and social shame like her (not really...)

Okay I struggle to stay tidy too. The reasons are: my house doesn't have enough storage, I was tidiest when I lived in a US apartment with huge closets - I still miss my closets, and would definitely design them in if I built a house. Second reason: other peoples mess, DH is tidier than me, but still leaves cups out - when I would put them away, abandons socks randomly, takes stuff out of the fridge and doesn't put it away - add to this the kids mess.

It is easier to keep tidy with fewer people. Its easier to keep tidy if you have the storage. Its easier to keep tidy when it doesn't seem as if you have been putting the same thing back in the same place for 1000s of times.

It can be easier to be tidy if it stays "pretty tidy" but when it gets messy its harder to get the energy to bother.

Thank you.

DH says he really does love me and always will but I need to make more effort to engage and to actually get stuff done, he has acknowledged that he is controlling but has pointed out that he has to be in a sense as someone has to take the lead as I am so disorganised and hopeless with stuff.

Thank you for your kindness, I really have appreciated it loads.

Elder, I feel your pain. My dad 'died' in that he left the family home when I was 14, my DB got violent around my mum and me; my mum attempted suicide, boozed... i had to do phoney growing up very fast and the trouble is now I'm an adult in years, I have never felt like an adult. I totally get you about the mess - it isn't just 'mess' it's like an inability to pick up behind myself, to keep on top of things, to manage my life.

I also lie and distort reality to get someone else to a) take care of things and b) look after me. It seems to me that when we lose things constantly, or are hopeless with money and appointments, returning calls etc. life becomes chaotic and messy and stressy, and so we get to confirm our self image: of a lonely, isolated, helpless little person, who can't cope with life; but who can't say so directly, so we say it with those types of behaviours. Maybe?

If you have the funds, you might want to look at the Hoffman process. I had had years of therapy literally years, to little avail; I understood the problem etc but could not change. Hoffman was very good and has changed some things for the better. (But not enough. I still routinely describe myself as someone who is lazy, indolent, a slattern and really quite nasty. I do, I really mean it and not in a 'negative' way but simply objectively!)