Libido's gone, OH frustrated - relationship suffering

[NannyPahLum]

Sorry this is long but think background is relevant...

Ok, so we've been together 6 yrs. First 2 yrs long distance and just saw each other every other weekend. Always plenty of good sex.

Then we moved in together. Sex increased to every other day on average (sometimes more, but on average)

But about a year after moving in together our lives went a bit awry... OH's business folded, I was made redundant. After several months of constant job applications and getting nowhere we sank under debt. Lost our privately rented home and had to sell just about everything we owned. In the midst of all this I had an abnormal smear and and to have precancerous cells removed. I ended up with a nasty infection after the procedure that took lots of medication and several weeks to recover from. Although not being able to have sex during the infection, sex life apart from that didn't suffer.

Just as we moved to his parents I finally got a new job, and a week later so did OH. But then just another week in we discovered I'd fallen pregnant. Not planned and battled with whether to terminate or not, due to our less than desirable circumstances for raising children. But decided to keep the baby as in the end we both realised we couldn't go through with a termination. Despite all this, sex life didn't suffer too much.

So we spent those pregnancy months working our arses off and paying our debts so we could get our own place for when the baby arrived... We found a little place. I went into labour early - the evening before we were due to move into new house! Caused quite a few disruptions with landlord & estate agent but we got there in the end.

So baby has arrived, but birth was traumatic and prolonged. I suffered PND, PTS and generally found it difficult to adapt to my new life with a baby who wasn't an easy baby. I had to give up work as we couldnt afford the childcare for me to return. Cue sex life takes a nose dive

I ended up on AD's and still on them now.

Over the next few years Ive struggled to raise DS with zero help - OH works a LOT of hours, he's out from 5am until after DS's bedtime at 7pm. I'm 200 miles from my family, his family all work full time. DS is not easy - always been difficult & naughty and I have consistent with discipline which be draining when I'm doing it all alone.

Sex life has never recovered despite our DS now being 2.7 yo. Since his birth we've been through another 2 house moves due to bad landlords, discovered I was pregnant again when DS was 6 mths but miscarried the day after finding out. Was both upset and relieved all at the same time. We've had 2 significant deaths in the family just days apart. I'm devastated but trying to cope. I'm also single handedly planning our wedding that's in July and it's been a BIG stress.... I'm stressed miserable and have zero sex drive.

But none of these events havr affected OH's sex drive and it's causing big problems in our relationship just weeks away from marrying each other.

I find his constant groping of me, sexual innuendos or direct comments of what he wants to do to me in bed irritating. Or him seeing my reluctance to have sex as 'playing hard to get' and still pursuing and pushing until I give in to shut him up, is starting to cause me some resentment towards him.

A couple times he's even penetrated me (not in an aggressive forceful manner) even when I've said I'm not in the mood. He did it again last night and this time I got quite upset and stormed out of the bedroom and slept on the sofa

I don't know what to do. We both love each other, and i respect he works so hard for us. But the stresses of life over the last couple of years have really affected my libido and I can't give him what he needs. But him trying to take it anyway is not making this any better.

When we do have sex, when I do actually want to, it's still good. It's just so few and far between and im frustrating him. He accuses me of not loving him when I don't give it up. I do I'm just bloody tired!

Am I at fault for losing sex drive and not satisfying him? How do I regain it?

StEdmunds - I was just answering BCBGs question re: my mother's attitude to sex while I was growing up, not suggesting it had anything to do with his actions or excusing them.

I just don't know what to do or how to tackle this

I think your mothers behaviour to you DOES have a bearing here actually. You have not been taught appropriate personal boundaries at all.

Her withholding of sanitary products is actually similar to what your DH is doing because it denied you your bodily autonomy. You were forced to ask for something you needed and to gain permission to use sanitary products on your own body.

I think your boundaries are skewed. Your DH has no rights whatsoever to your body.

I would not marry this man.

I just don't know what to do or how to tackle this
^
Decide what you want - excluding all others as this is about you - and then decide how to go about it, and do it

I may sound a little harsh, I don't know, but years ago I was in a similar situation to you where my fiance disrespected me in all aspects. but this was in less enlightened times, so every time he hurt me, but told me he was doing it for my own good, and that he really did love me, I believed him.
We then married. He hit me on our wedding day once we were alone. He said it was my fault so I believed him. He demanded sex, whether I wanted it or not - he took it - and left me in some pretty bad states - but I was exaggerating apparantly. but it was for my own good, and he really loved me, he said. I believed him.
I became pregnant and the violence escalated. Being strangled, thrown down the stairs, raped, beaten was ok because it was for my own good, and he really loved me. I believed him.
I finally, finally sat down one day and thought that, at the age of 25 I could live another 60 years, and I didn't want to live it like that.
So I left.
It wasn't easy. Months in a refuge. Years as a single parent with him constantly harrassing me. All of that has followed me down the years.

Please, please, please, don't be me in 3/4/5 years time. I didn't have Mumsnet then, oh god I'm crying now, but you have, and I really wish that I had. The advice given here is sadly tried and tested, but good and true.

Listen to yourself. Love yourself. Be kind to yourself, and live the life you want, noy the life he is giving you now.

StEdmundsPippins

I could not put up with this OP, either the DP or his family. As for his father slapping your bottom what?

I take the points made by some about mismatched libido and some people's need for sex but what your partner is doing goes beyond that. He coerces you until you give in and if that doesn't work he just moves on to the next stage, penetration when he knows you do not want sex. That has nothing to do with your mother's attitude to sex or the stresses you've had.

He may not be consciously aware of this himself, but he does that because he has been raised to regard people in your shape, ie female, as objects. That is clear from the lack of reaction of everyone when his father, and role model, puts his hands on any woman within reach.

Once he takes full ownership of this particular object he secures full rights over it's use. In other words once you are his wife you will be his possession.

Not all men are like this and you don't have to remain in a relationship with one who is.

You deserve better.

Why on earth do men think that this kind groping pressurising manipulating forcing behaviour is going to turn their women on? Can't they see it just revolts us and shows us they think we're some toy that belongs to them?

Do not marry him. Do not marry into his family. Kick him out, or leave if it's easier.

OP take heed of StEdmunds post.

If you marry this man he won't suddenly stop sexually assaulting you, he already thinks you're there to service him, he believes he has the right to sex with you whether you want it or not. His sense of entitlement will be much stronger when you're 'his wife', he so obviously believes his needs are the most important thing that he's quite willing to rape you. This will get worse after you get married, he thinks that men have certain rights over women. If he doesn't listen to you saying no now then he certainly won't when you're married. This will be your life if you marry him

Nanny, you sound like you've been through a lot in the last few years, and I feel for you.

You sound isolated and without real life support and I feel for you there too. It's not an easy road to be on.

But the thing that the wise mumnsnetters have seen about you is the denial you are in when we say that your fiancé has raped you.

I need you to know that his behaviour is absolutely disgusting, and illegal, and you are not to blame for these rapes. He is completely at fault. He has assaulted you and raped you. He's broken the law, and is a criminal.

Please please phone womens aid and your local rape crisis centre for some real life help.

With the other mumnsnetters you've asked for help from, I also say you are not obliged to marry a man who rapes you, in fact I'd go so far to say that I actually forbid you to marry him, as I would say if you were my own sister.
Your life is more important than a deposit on a venue.

Please gather support around you, move back to where your family is, contact the rape crisis centre and learn how to look after yourself - you are worth so much more than being this man's hole.

I bet your libido will return when you are free of him, and with someone who values and respects you for you.

So sorry to hear your story StEdmunds, what you suffered was horrific

I appreciate all your advice and believe me it has been taken on board with serious consideration.

I am not just going to pack my bags and leave. I really don't have him down as a woman beater... He's the most chilled laid-back bloke, there's never even been a hint of aggression in him. But sadly I realise he has been very manipulative.

A frank discussion about what he's done, how it's affected me and how it can't continue will be had. Including me leaving should it persist. Because I do think that the very different ways we've both been raised have had a significant impact on us both... including him being taught by his own father to objectify women. I really don't think he truly understands what he's done because his family are so relaxed with sex (except his sister who hates it)

I can't move back to my family - I don't really have any.

I only have my mother and she couldn't cope with me being there with my DS for a week last month, where I stayed to be close to my nan who was in hospital in intensive care. My mum kicked me out at 17 and I lived with my nan until I was 21 and able to afford my own place.

The only person I really had was my nan, but she died in intensive care last month - after my mum obstructed me seeing her and speaking to her doctors but told me she was getting better. I went home with plans to return once she was out of intensive care, only to discover once I'd left she wasn't getting better and her machines were turned off. I wasn't told until just before they turned her life support off so I had no chance to say goodbye...

She was the only family I trusted implicitly - now she's gone I have nobody but my OH and his family

Very interesting that his sister hates it. You should take your cue from her. It is not normal. I bet other female members of the family hate it too but at too dominated to say anything.

X-posted. Your mother has severely emotionally abused you and taught you that what you want and feel, even when it relates directly only to you, does not matter.

Do you see the connection?

If you marry this man, you will perpetuate the cycle for the next generation. Ie, your DS will grow up seeing you objectified and he will do the same to women as an adult. Don't you want more for him than that?

OP. You've said that you have no help from DP in raising your child, and that his family work, and that your family are 200 miles away. So already you are practically bringing up a child on your own.

As for the forthcoming wedding you say you are organising single handed - well where's his input? It's his wedding too. you say it's a big stress, and that you're stressed AND miserable, so cancel it and lift a ton weight off your shoulders at the same time.

If I'm right in thinking you rent, are both names on the tenency? Ask or tell him to leave. Even if you don't want him to go permanently you need some space, both physical and mental. If he truly loves you, he'll do this for you.

What about friends, people at your DC's playgroup/nursery etc, could you find support there?
Financially, you could find support on benefits etc just as a short term solution.
Whatever you do my lovey, you need some time to yourself, to think all this through and decide whether or not you want to feel like this - or worse - for the rest of your life. for you too OP .

I am not just going to pack my bags and leave. I really don't have him down as a woman beater - mine verbally abused and hurt me badly at first. hitting me on our wedding day was the first time.

Speaking from experience here unfortunately but don't marry this man, OP. Once you're married he will only see you as even more his property, marital duties and all that. I'm divorcing someone similar in behaviour. The signs were there before I married him but it got significantly worse once we were married.
There's nothing wrong with your sex drive either. If you wanted to do it once every day he would probably up it to twice a day or something like this. I had a pretty healthy sex drive (kids arrived after we were married) but it was never enough, never. And then it wasn't just the quantity of sex but the kind of sex he wanted. Upping the ante all the time. No respect whatsoever for what I said.
Mine didn't hit me, he didn't need to. He was also very laid-back and charming except with me behind closed doors. I bet your man isn't laid-back when he wants sex.

Once you're married it'll be even more tricky for you to end things. You will feel even more trapped. I, too, had no family to rely on, and your fiancé will know that.
If you decide to talk to him, watch his reaction very carefully. I'd say he's likely to minimise and laugh at you. If he doesn't, then I don't know, but he will need to work very hard if it's all so ingrained in his family upbringing.

OP, only you know what your relationship with your DP is, and I am alarmed at the turn this thread is taking, and as I don't think you are getting very balanced advice, I'm off. For what its worth, I think that you should talk as a could, and consider going to couples counselling before the wedding because it might help. He may have poor understanding of what is appropriate but he is also a product of his own upbringing and he can learn.

OP, I don't disagree with the comments previously posted but have a couple of other thoughts:

You are depressed. This plus the ads are a fairly heavy duty libido suppressant on their own.

You've suffered a major bereavement with the loss of your much loved nan only about a month ago...of course you are grieving,sad and feeling unsexy just now. The first two points alone will improve in time and you may well regain some of your old mojo as your grieving and mental health improve.

BUT...

Your 'd'm sounds a real piece of work and if you've never had counselling around her behaviours then please consider it. Where was your df in all of this emotional bullying? She sounds absolutely unhinged.

Yes, your DP has learned some very strange 'norms' from his family. His df sounds a creep. Odd that his sister doesn't like it .

The initial amount of sex in a new relationship is never sustained throughout a long term one. Your DP needs a reality check on this. He really needs re-educating on what constitutes a consensual, loving relationship.

Have a very long hard think about your wedding. It is far less trouble to extricate yourself at this point than after the marriage. Perhaps insist on some couple counselling before you go ahead. Being upset that you don't want sex is one thing. Refusing to take no for an answer is another entirely.

Best wishes to you and I hope you have some RL support. You've had a very tough time.

Your 'd'm sounds a real piece of work and if you've never had counselling around her behaviours then please consider it. Where was your df in all of this emotional bullying? She sounds absolutely unhinged.

Its too long a story, but my DF was a miner. He was made redundant in the 90's with the closure of all the collieries. He became depressed and took it out on us all. DM followed suit. They both began drinking heavily and both turned into horrendous bullies. It inevitably led to them splitting up when both of them started going out separately and lots of accusations were thrown around about cheating.

Just 3 wks after splitting DM moved in a new bloke. He was younger than her and immature. That relationship was (and still is) volatile and yet again involved alcohol. They both gave DF a lot of grief over access to us, the children (purely to be spiteful) and he grew fed up of it and decided he couldn't be bothered with it all, and us, any more.

DM is now alcohol dependent despite her absolute denial about it. I've tried to get her to seek help about it, but the last time I raised concerns about her alcoholism she cut me off from the family for a whole year (until she fell ill and wanted me again) - my nan was the only one who stuck by me.

I've seen various counsellors but seriously don't find it helpful - just very upsetting.

Maybe couples counselling might help but I have my reservations as I don't think he'd accept that sort of help, and I've never found counselling helpful

Why on earth do men think that this kind groping pressurising manipulating forcing behaviour is going to turn their women on?

men like that DON'T actually want to turn a woman on...it's all about HIS "needs'' and HIS gratification.

men like this don't care that sex is supposed to be pleasurable for women too!

there's never even been a hint of aggression in him. is rape not aggressive op? Just because it doesn't hit you, it doesn't make him a mice man. He thinks he has the right to sex whenever he wants it, regardless of your feelings. He isn't aggressive when you move away from him yet, but that is highly likely to change when you are further tied to him.

This thread took the turn it did because the op has admitted her dh raped her. The only advice should be to leave him. Counselling with an abuser won't work & isn't recommended.

And come on....I don't believe for one minute that an adult male, with a job & a child doesn't know that sex without consent is rape! Stop infantilizing him & blaming his parents. Unless he has never read a book/paper/internet etc he knows what he is doing is wrong. I might agree that he needs some help on learning how a loving relationship should be, but to not know that sex - consent = rape in 2105..no, not buying it. Some might pretend it isn't what it is...but most know.

You have been surrounded by bullies op, just because your current partner doesn't do anything they used to, doesn't make what he does any less bullying!

Oh, dear, Nanny.

Please listen to what people are saying here.

He is another abusive partner (and a rapist).

Just a different kind of abuser.

Why were his other relationships "bad" OP?

Good to see you've posted here too OP.

Having read about your childhood with your parents, especially your mother, I really do think it's very relevant to the situation you find yourself in now. You don't know where your boundaries are or should be. Your DP doesn't either, both where yours are and where his own should be. This is the result.

I'm not saying LTB as I think you could overcome it, bit you need to try and get some external help (joint counselling) before you get married, so quickly.

Regarding his sister not liking it, entirely possible that she doesn't like the dirt of disrespectful sexual treatment she grew up witnessing, which had put her off because she doesn't realise that sex is meant to be totally different to that.

It's a bit of a perfect storm really, you and him. But if you feel loved apart from this (huge) problem, then you could try and see if he understands that what he's doing isn't right and understands it from your POV.

Can't postpone wedding we're in too deep now.

Of course you can and you should. Not postpone. Cancel it altogether.

You will be in too deep if you marry him (and why would you want to marry a rapist?), but even then you can divorce him.

A man that forces himself on a woman aint going to understand it from their point of view, complete waste of words.

Rape within a relationship isn't a perfect storm...whatever the hell that means!

Your future fil doesn't sound like he's relaxed about sex. He sounds inappropriate and chauvinistic. I'm surprised anyone puts up with him slapping their backsides. I wouldn't want my children around this sort of behaviour. It's not normal.

Your partners belief that he should have access to your body regardless of how you feel about it is abusive. His claims that you don't love him if you refuse are emotionally abusive. Having married someone who had abusive beliefs about entitlement to sex , I can tell you it's insidious and it gets worse.

You say he's not aggressive. I'm sure you mean in general, but actually penetrating someone who has said no IS aggressive. How can it not be ? I would run very far away from both him and his family.