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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Possible sale of our home bringing up unresolved financial/relationship issues - long

83 replies

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 07:12

Hi

H and I have been together for 19 years - married 13 of those. We have 3 dc - 2 at primary school, 1 at secondary.

I have posted about our relationship over the years, but in a way my question is not about the past but about what to do now.

The house we live in is in h's name only. When we got together I was much younger (obviously!) - but h is 12 years older than me. Looking back I would not have agreed to go ahead with things set up as they are (even if it meant the relationship ending), but I was naive! I moved in to h's flat. He then bought a house that we moved in to together. The house we currently live in was bought 2 years after we met so we have lived here for 17 years. At the time of the first house purchase, I asked him if he would wait (we were not married at that point and didn't have the dc) until I was in a position to get a joint mortgage with him. He said absolutely not and went ahead with the purchase.

So for 17 years we have lived in the second house he bought (after meeting me). In the time we have been together he has also bought and sold various other properties. He currently owns our family home as well as a retail property, a house in another town which he rents out intermittently, a property on the coast (actually a type of tower) which he would like to do up one day so that it can be rented out, and half a house (owned with a family member) which he is currently renovating to sell. I own half of the flat my sister lives in (this is part inheritance, part gift from my Dad).

The way that things are set up financially is that h pays me a wage through his business and I get child benefit and child tax credit into my account. I have recently started working again (after being a SAHM for a long time) so that goes in to my account as well (and will probably reduce the tax credits though I haven't sorted that out yet as have only just started working - it is contract work as a teaching assistant and there won't be any work in the holidays and am not sure where I will be working in September). I pay for food and anything child related - clothes / shoes / school trips / christmas and birthday gifts / any activities etc.. I also get occasional gifts from my Dad. This money allows me to pay for some activities for the kids and cheap holidays (this year I have paid for a 7 days in a holiday park in Wales and our overnight train tickets abroad this summer - we are going to stay with my Dad).

H pays for the mortgage and covers all bills (I used to pay for things like the MOT and car service but had more savings at that point). He is going for broke trying to do this latest property up and in a sense has less access to cash than me (but is obviously well off asset wise). There is still a mortgage but I don't know how big this is.

What bothers me is the fact that I am living like a child. H is a bit of a gambler in a way and juggles his financial commitments. He is living on the overdraft - he does renovation work for other people but is doing that less at the moment as he is concentrating on finishing the property he owns with a relative. I don't have access to any of his accounts and don't know what he does financially at all (apart from what he occasionally might tell me). He is now 58 (I am 46) and has had enough of working as physically hard as he has over the past 10 years. So I think the sale of this property and possibly of the house that we live in, would allow him to pay the mortgage off.

So about a month ago he got an estate agent over to value our house. He now talks about what he hopes it will sell for and we are doing up (or rather fixing as parts of it are a in need of tlc) some rooms. The agent asked us where we were planning to move to and of course we couldn't really say anything as we have different ideas about that. Our whole relationship h has talked about wanting to live in a particular mediterranean country and he is now saying that he wants to live there and he will go there on his own if necessary (Shock). However he is prone to making statements like that and also says "shall we move there?" when any interesting country appears on the TV. I would favour moving closer to the outside of the town we already live in as I am scared of losing the cosmopolitan element of our life. DC1 also really likes his secondary school and so I suppose that I vaguely think we could move somewhere greener and cheaper from where he (and the others when they start there) could commute to school. H and I have not really talked about this - but I suppose we are not the only couple who disagrees about where to go and live.

But the crux of the matter (as far as this post is concerned) is that the possible sale of our home opens a whole can of worms for me that I don't really want opened. Over the years I have asked h if I can be on the deeds a few times. He is very defensive about this. We also have no will and no life insurance. I know that if we were to get divorced 50% of any assets would be mine (though I am not sure if h realises this as in a counselling session 2 years ago he said that he bought the house before we got married - ie. it does not count as mine Hmm), but if h were to die or become incapacitated, it becomes more complicated than that. Also he could have made a will to anybody he pleases. I suppose I feel a degree of insecurity which could easily be got rid of if things were set up differently between us and if h were a different, more trusting kind of person.

I also feel slightly humiliated that in the end, despite having been together for so long and having 3 children, the big financial decisions are up to him as of course he owns everything.

So I don't think I could now move into a house which again only he signs for. In fantasy moments I think that he might, when it comes to it, ask me to be on the deeds of wherever we move to, but in all honesty, I don't think this will happen. In the past he has said things like if I want a house I have to work for it (just like he did when he started out - he is very big on this and how much effort he put into it). He has also said (in an argument) that I will not have more decision making power - or words to that effect - when I was saying that I wanted to be on an equal footing.

What I find upsetting is that, although I have undoubtedly not sweated as much as him (and have not been great at housekeeping either), I have contributed over the years. In the six years before we got married, my earnings went towards food. I then looked after the kids for a long time. I got a small inheritance when my Mum died and some of this went towards furniture, appliances and holidays.

So I am waiting to see what he actually plans to do deeds wise when and if we move somewhere else. But if it transpires (as I think it will) that he plans to keep things on the same footing, I will be pushed into taking my head out of the sand and doing something about it.

I am also worried about the future finance wise. I am planning on doing various things to get my working life back on track so it is not that I don't want to work - I absolutely do. But what is going to happen when h and I have both retired (not that I plan to for a good long time)? Is he going to have access to all the assets and money they may or may not generate while I ask him for money?

Basically, in an ideal world, I would want our entire financial set up re-drawn. With both of us owning more or less everything, and everything being out in the open. Pigs will fly before this happens with h however. Apart from anything else he is bitter about losing his family home to his first wife in their divorce and is very defended against this kind of thing happening again.

So I suppose I am asking how I can bring this issue up again with h and have an adult conversation with him about it. How can I get my point across without him misinterpreting my motivations?

Thanks for reading this far Smile.

OP posts:
mummytime · 22/06/2015 16:33

I would expect you would get more than 1/2 if you are the primary resident parent of your children, as you would get a percentage on behalf of them too.

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 16:34

No I do know his income from his properties and his self employment income as I phone the tax credit office every half year. I don't know how big the mortgage is though, or any loans. Also don't know the value of the properties but I suppose nobody does until they sell them.

All of this is making me sound mercenary Blush. I would like to be one of the two adults who own the family home and to know basically what would happen if h were to die or not to be able to work. I see other couples where all these things are out in the open and that is what I would like.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 22/06/2015 16:42

I find it impossible that you are not claiming tax credits fraudulently.

They need the family income. They need his income to base their financial award on.

antimatter · 22/06/2015 16:49

I agree with Quite

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 16:50

They have his income though? From his work and his property. What do you mean? How does my not knowing the size of his mortgage affect his income (genuine question)?

OP posts:
feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 16:53

He rents out one property and declares this. The other properties are undeveloped or empty.

OP posts:
Jackw · 22/06/2015 16:58

This all sounds so awful. He sounds awful. I don't think you sound mercenary at all. Surely this is financial abuse on his part? It's certainly not normal.

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:01

I think he thinks that I am fine on a day to day basis (and I am) and that he had to work many years while I was a SAHM. That if I want "own" house that I should go out and work for it just as he did when he started out.

OP posts:
feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:07

my own house

OP posts:
itwillgetbettersoon · 22/06/2015 17:17

You mention that all the assets will come out in a divorce so you don't need to do anything at the moment. How do you know that he isn't busy transferring assets to other family members Or lending out money? You could end up with very little because of your passive stance

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:23

It's true itwillgetbetter but I suppose I have to go on trust. If we are getting on better I have to assume he is not doing this though he could. If I start asking questions like these, it will push him away.

OP posts:
feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:25

I don't want us to get divorced is the crux of the matter. I would like to be on a more equal footing and him to be a bit more affectionate.

OP posts:
feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:25

Anyway, have depressed myself now!

OP posts:
woowoo22 · 22/06/2015 17:45

Has he ever actually shown you that HE is

affectionate
concerned about your financial situation as a family?

antimatter · 22/06/2015 17:53

They have his income though? - who are they? You are claiming and is your responsibility to fill in all forms.

The way I understand family credits is that you declare income of FAMILY not just mother (or just father).
You are most likely being overpaid for years and will get a bill in the future to pay all that money back (some people have to pay thousands). Do you think you can afford that?

Unless of course you are claiming as a single mother and being married and living with the father of your kids this is fraudulent claim anyway.

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 17:58

antimatter

I declare our family income to hmrc - both h's and mine. I do not declare as a single parent. What are you talking about?

I don't understand how you have extrapolated that we are claiming fraudulently from the fact that I don't know the mortgage?

All income - his and mine, is declared as family income.

OP posts:
antimatter · 22/06/2015 18:05

sorry, I made assumption that you don't know much about his financial affairs

it looks like you know some figures just not the breakdown

apologies!

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 18:09

Accepted Smile.

woowoo yes I don't know - I am sure he cares about the dc having something of his after he is gone - me not that sure.

Affection wise - he seems fed up and detached. Ready to move on.

OP posts:
woowoo22 · 22/06/2015 19:21

I would make plans to leave. He won't change.

Believe you me I know how hard that is. The feeling that you want to leave, then the reality of doing so.

PoppyField · 22/06/2015 19:24

One of my problems is that I don't know how to explain to h how important my being on an equal footing to him is. He just views it suspiciously, gets defensive and talks about how hard he has worked.

You do not have a communication problem OP. You have an abuse problem. He is consciously witholding information, affection, respect etc. He bullies you. This is abuse. Does that make sense to you?

DinnaeKnowShitFromClay · 22/06/2015 21:37

I would leave while you are a SAHM. Get your 50%. Get as much paper evidence as possible together, get advice first and make arrangements to make a life for yourself where you can see the edges of your own world and find comfort in that. He has had the use of you over the years and refuses to see that. Sod that for a game of soldiers!

feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 22:13

a life for yourself where you can see the edges of your own world and find comfort in that

That's exactly that that I would like. Couldn't have put it better. I would prefer to have it with h than without. Or have it to a degree with h if that's all that he can manage.

OP posts:
feelinganxious192 · 22/06/2015 22:14

what I would like not that that

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 22/06/2015 22:16

With regard to registering my interest, the reason I am not going to do it now is because things are better between h and I and I suppose part of me is hoping that when and if we sell this house and buy another one, he himself suggests that I go on the deeds.

Has he said anything - anything at all - that indicates he might be thinking along those lines? Because I'm not seeing anything in your posts that might point to that.

I would put the realistic chance of him doing that at

pocketsaviour · 22/06/2015 22:16

*shouldn't have, even.