Why all this abuse?

[BeenWondering]

I admit that perhaps I'm slightly jaded having being on this board for many years. But I still can't get my head around why abusers abuse? Will they change for the 'right' person and are they aware of their actions? And at what point in a relationship does it start to go wrong?

I ruin myself trying to answer these questions. I've read the Lundy books but hearing real life experiences on this board interests me more. We have women (and men) going through all sorts of hell on here. And it infuriates me.

My ex was emotionally abusive but to the rest of the world he was kind, intelligent, successful, endearing, driven. Just about all the qualities you'd look for in a partner. When we first met I was amazed and fell in love instantly, in the years that followed he became emotionally abusive.

I admit that at the time I didn't see it that way, I actually thought that we were stuck in a rut or maybe if I could be a better partner or be better in life he'd go back to the way we used to be. He managed to grind down my self-esteem and make me wonder what was wrong with me. I have wondered if he'll be better with the OW as they seem to still be friends even though they have since broken up. So a large part of me wondered why me as surely he's been able to keep up appearances with her and indeed his ex prior to me. I had to walk away as it would have destroyed me.

I wonder if they do change? If it's just a certain dynamic between two people that doesn't match. But having said that, it's not a green light to abuse anyone.

I can't help but think there are so many abusers around and abuse going on that a person wouldn't even identify their partners actions as abuse as its so insidious.

Sorry for mammoth post but would like to know what you think.

There are certain beliefs that are consistent with abusers.

They all believe they are the victim of some great injustice.

They all believe that it is something that is being done to them, that justifies their behaviour.

They can never take responsibility for anything.

They generally don't like women/ or whoever is the reason for the perceived injustice.

They abuse themselves too....drugs, alcohol, whatever.

They like to "win" the point, get one over on someone...ALL the time.

Abusers have to dehumanise before they can abuse. That rings true with the war stuff...you couldn't kill someone who you saw as fundamentally the same as yourself. They have that empathy trained/brainwashed out of them. (ducks)

These are all kind of the same thing. Basically, they hate themselves and project it onto whoever gets close.

Very good summary of an abuser's mentality queen

actually today I am not ok at all.
two days my terminally ill sister was rushed to hospital and taken into resus.
her last remaining kidney was failing.
\I wanted to see her one last time, and spent the night wondering how to get there.
it takes 3/4 hours by public transport through London, I am on the south coast.
similar thing happened last year and I struggled to get there, I am a pensioner.it exhausted me.
my "dh" drives but offered to take me to the local station and find my way.
of course I was distressed all the way, feeling alone.
ell, yesterday I knew I had to go somehow.
I text my friend of 50 years, simply saying I need help. immediately she rang, I told her what was wrong.
"i'll take you" she said at once.
so kind.
I saw my dear sister, plugged into all sorts of equipment, it was so distressing.
we spent hours travelling, arriving home very late and hungry.
dh didn't even ask how she was, simply said his back hurt, and why didn't I ask what he had eaten that day.
I did ask if he had eaten, he said yes, but not what.
god help me.
today, he is sarcastic, and I think put out that I was more concerned for someone else than him.
he is fed up with always something wrong with him, small things like hay fever each summer, the heart attack in January that there seems to be no reason for, he is fine.
I don't know.
I look at him and think he is just a selfish, self centred individual.
only concerned with himself.
he just said he "will build a moat round the house" to keep me out, "joking".
I just want to run away, to get away from his black view of the world.
he has no friends, hates anyone coming to MY house, wouldn't put himself out for anyone.
there was an accident directly in front of us a few weeks ago, he drove away fast not wanting to have to stop and put himself out.
talk about me,me,me,

justreadthis your post has made me so sad for you. I'm so sorry to hear about your sister. You husband sounds bloody awful, to put it lightly.

Could you leave him? What are your options? You sound so unhappy. It doesn't have to be this way.

I'm about to go into a meeting but will be back.

Its your house? Put it on the market and tell him to move out. Some of this illness can be to get your attention.
You do not have to care like this. Ease off on the consideration for him. Stop washing stuff. Cook food you like. Go out and see friends and let him get on with it. If there is no kindness in him

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP ON CARING.
Its hard to do but back away from these demands and make a life for yourself.

There can be many reasons why someone is controlling but the one that comes up most often is how the father behaved. Someone earlier wondered how come men raised by women could turn out like that, but the fathers, unless completely absent , have an effect. In fact, the withdrawn, barely there father is one style of control so even when te mum is doing most of the work, the kids are learning that dad gets the main say while doing sweet FA and mum does the work but has no power.

There is significantly less abuse, and almost no rape, where women and men have very similar respect in society, even if their roles are very different and separated by gender.

haha, exactly that.
his father was exactly the same , I even dared to tell him that he is behaving like his father now, he laughed at me.

'I even dared' - are you afraid of him justread?

Sorry to read about your sister and the mean and nasty response from your 'd'h. But whuhoo for friends eh! I hope you get to see your sister recovered.

Are you getting anything at all from your marriage now?

justreadthis I'm so sorry to hear about your sister How is she doing? I can only imagine the stress and worry you're going through over her hospitalisation. Thank god you have such a good friend! Does she know about the hell your H is putting you through?

It's your house, please work on getting him out. He sounds horrendous. Can you book a legal appointment just to see where you'd stand in the event of a split? You sound as if you know full well what he's doing and he's even given up the pretence - he sounds in utter contempt of you.

As you say, he has no friends and wouldn't put himself out for anyone so he'll be the one left suffering when you gain your independence. Do you have any Dc? Stay strong and keep posting for support.

Yes, this - he laughed and said i'm mad, making a mountain out of a molehill - heard it so many times over the years, only recently have realised it was just a way of deflecting responsibility from Ex and his unreasonable behaviour to me - and left me wondering what was wrong with me, what more can I do etc..recently said to him that all those times I expressed anger, disappointment, frustration and got the above response, I was RIGHT to have these reactions (reasonable ones given my situation) and he was WRONG to try to suppress them. Like sevennights it took me ages to cop on it was EA and now too I am seeing it in a lot of places.
justreadthis sorry for your sister and situation, sounds grim. Was just remembering this morning how much energy petty conflicts or unkindness's would take up, engineered by him. Hard work and energy but not going into something positive that will improve, but just energy depleting that you will never get back and is designed to keep you ground down and not seeing the wood for the trees...but seems like you are reaching your limit.

justreadthis how are you

Justreadthis, my stepfather was an arsehole. By all accounts so was his father. What would happen if you walked out!? Like right now?

Actually, I just saw it was your house.

Kick the bastard out.

I think it starts small. I think it may start as people tend to hit out at the one nearest to them as it is a 'safe space' to do so. Often that first one or two digs are ignored as we all want a nice life and ignoring bad behaviour and giving the benefit of the doubt to loved ones is the humane thing to do but the toehold is set up in this way and it escalates. What amazes me is how they can't see what they are doing as abuse! You could take a sentence they say to you, write it down and offer it to them and say, 'Would you say that to anyone else in this world', the answer would be, 'No'. 'What if someone said that to you?' The answer would invariably be, 'I would smack them in the mouth', and yet...... It really is weird.

Just a stab in the dark here but perhaps abuse of females is socially legitimized and is necessary in order to uphold the social order?

Without those two women a week being killed, how much more female energy would there be in the universe? What would women do with this extra energy?

I think ultimately man has a deep rooted fear of woman and their strength.

Of course I could be talking out of my arse, but with my limited knowledge that's how it seems to me throughout history.

My mother gave me great advice when I was a young woman and starting to get involved with men. She said to remember that I should NEVER have to ask 'permission' from anybody (as an adult) - and to learn early on in any relationship to simply TELL other people what your plans were going to be. This was both courteous and respectful but also assertive from the beginning. Any adult relationship that involves asking for permission (usually to avoid an argument) immediately puts you in a position of submission. I have found it very helpful and although I STILL ended up in a few EA relationships - I was able to quickly realise and get the hell out without too much drama. It also showed me how to begin a healthy relationship on an equal footing. Maybe it sounds trite, but it has helped enormously and may help others as well.

what a crap day today.
he has just been hanging around, watching tv, eventually "agreeing" to do some shopping. he has spent the last two hours watching grand prix.
no interest in me or anything else except what's on tv etc. I found a day out at beuleigh museum which he might like as he enjoys cars.
I told him about it, thinking he would be pleased, he just grunted and carried on watching tv.
of course I wonder if he is depressed, but it is only me who he grunts at.
he is a miserable bad tempered bastard, just like his father.
I even lied to my daughter who lives abroad, that he couldn't take me to London to see my sister in icu as he hurt his back, but the truth was that last time I had to get the train, took me three hours, and I knew this time he wouldn't put himself out for me.so, happy days

Are you thinking about leaving/getting him to leave, justreadthis?

at the end of my tether now.
he's watching football now.
i'm bored out of my mind now.
don't even feel like talking to a friend either.
feel like i'm imprisoned by my life.
if I try to talk to him, he gets defensive, says "it's al my fault"
I have to go on holidays on my own, he has no enthusiasm for life, nor interest in anything.it's a lovely evening, we could have a walk on the beautiful beach, but if I suggest it, he moans about "going on a forced march"i dunno, just don't know the best way forward.
i'm sure if I had family support in the uk, it wouldn't belike this.
my dd is protective of me.
what a miserable life.
I've gotta do some serious thinking tonight about the best way foward

Hope you're ok today justreadthis.

I would go off on a break, or just out for your walk and tell him it's over when you get back.

to you and your sister.

I think ultimately man has a deep rooted fear of woman and their strength.

Well, some abusive men do, that's for certain. Decent men who accept that woman are human beings too (gasp!) know they have nothing to be afraid of, that the stronger women are the stronger they can both be together. Unfortunately I agree with the posters who commented that society, particularly organised religion, tends to support the relegation of women into a support role.

justreadthis, I don't know whether this would work but I found it tremendously empowering when I stopped taking responsibility for XH (who, by the way, with all his issues, isn't nearly as hideously self-centred as yours sounds). For 23 years his problems were my problems, his moods were my issue to sort, I was diplomatic, sensitive, blamed myself, you name it. Then the worm turned. When we were divorcing he asked me what would become of him and I responded that he could live in a cardboard box under Charing Cross Bridge, it wasn't my problem any more. He was astonished and quite hurt, but the fact is, although brutally phrased (necessary because he doesn't do subtle hints, it has to be a strong rebuff), it really was not my business to see him housed. We sold the marital home and split everything in half so he was in exactly the same position as I was in finding somewhere to live. (I did end up helping him somewhat with advice and a small loan - which he did repay eventually - just to keep things moving.)

In your situation I would no longer ask whether H had eaten, and if he huffed about it, explain it was because he was an adult who was perfectly capable of feeding himself. With a bit more practice you could add that frankly you don't particularly care whether he has chosen to eat or not. Because really, why should you?

As for the moaning about aching back etc, XH used to complain horribly about his joints whenever the weather was cold or damp. I'd suggest he got it checked out in case something could be done to help, but he would say there was no point and that he would probably not make it through to the spring; either it was something fatal or he would have to "go off a high place" (ie do himself in). After I gave notice of intention to divorce him he visited the GP for a health check. He returned all ebullient and stated that the doctor had pronounced him "fit as a fiddle". I asked what they'd said about all the aches and pains. "What aches and pains?" he said.

He's been going to die imminently of something for over 30 years that I know of. Tough old boot will probably see me out, and I'm 11 years younger.

I love your post, Anniegetyourgun. You are now my role model.:)

Ooh, thanks As usual it was far too wordy.

the difficulty is that all I receive is flippant or rude/sarcastic remarks.
today our granddaughter has had similar issues with her partner.
she just text that they had talked, and all issues were sorted.
what was his remark...good for them...sarcastically.
for years we haven't had a holiday.
"we don't need to go anywhere as we live next to the sea" he says.
he won't go anywhere new,...there might not be parking...
then he shouted at me in total annoyance...where the hell do you want to go then...
*4 years ago I flew alone transatlantic to a grandsons graduation.
*3 years ago I flew alone transatlantic to another grandsons graduation.
*last year I went with my sister to crete on holiday.

all because he has no interest or enthusiasm for life.
"i'm allright " he says.
I might as well live on my own, which would be difficult financially, as we are both retired, although I fund totally our lifestyle.
he does receive a pension, but keeps it to himself.
these last 6/7 years he has become completely disinterested in new experiences.
I don't want to spend the few years left..getting up...going to the shops....watching tv every night.