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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

A couple of years on

73 replies

Hessen · 30/05/2015 11:03

I'm a 33 year old man, and divorce has just gone through from my school sweetheart. After 15 years together, we separated 2.5 years ago when I left because she didn't love me any more and I felt that I deserved more.

It was a very weird separation, she has never said or shown remotely that she's missed me, we never cheated on each other, we never shouted or argued, she just stopped loving me and I didn't want our daughter to grow up seeing loveless behaviour from her mum as the norm. It also hurt me on a daily basis because I did, and still do, love her very much.

Although we are both much happier in new relationships, I still find it hard regularly because we interact daily to discuss our daughter, and I automatically care and want her approval and love, but she very much sees me as a distant ex. I love very deeply, and thought she did too, so it's very hard to accept that she can so easily dismiss 15 years, a marriage, having a child together, growing up together and all of the memories that we had.

No idea what to do to cope, I focus a lot of time and energy on my daughter, my career, my new partner, but it isn't enough to stop my heartache when she is so cold towards me, or my regular thoughts thinking back about the relationship and not wanting to regret the time.

OP posts:

Jux · 30/05/2015 16:15

Find a counsellor and explore your feelings and why you're holding on so tightly.

Grieving after a bereavement is supposed to take, on average, 3 years, so it may just be a matter of time for you as you grieve the loss of your marriage, your childhood sweetheart and the life you expected to have.

mrstweefromtweesville · 30/05/2015 16:27

Counselling sounds appropriate.
Some people aren't right for each other.

Original poster

Hessen · 30/05/2015 19:28

I've had some counselling, unfortunately all linked to my mummy issues, I want to be loved and appreciated and shown and told that (received none of the above from my parents), apparently most blokes don't want that so I'm seen as "high maintenance"

Thankyou all for the kind posts.

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pocketsaviour · 30/05/2015 19:53

Your last post makes things a little clearer.

Do you think you have put your ex into the position where a loving mum would normally be? And now that she has withdrawn that love, you're locked back in that endless cycle of wishing for her love and approval that you won't ever get?

Original poster

Hessen · 30/05/2015 20:08

I think it's more that most people who have given what I have to their partners get unconditional love in return. We both leaned on each other when we got together as teenagers, I helped her through trauma and PTSD, years of counselling, times without a job, PND after our daughter was born. I gave her unconditional love, I was a hopeless romantic who whisked her away on holidays, told her how beautiful she was every day and meant it, told her I loved her every day and meant it, she just never really felt the same about me (she was my first love, I wasn't hers)

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JeanneDeMontbaston · 30/05/2015 20:16

No, most people don't get unconditional love from their partners.

Unconditional love isn't a good or healthy quality of adult relationships.

You sound really nice, and your new partner must be very lucky, but she can't help it if she just didn't feel the same way - you did get together very young, and it sounds as if, for her, it just didn't work out? It is horrible and sad and you'd be a saint if you never felt bitter, because that's human nature. But I don't think you can or should expect adult love to be unconditional.

tipsytrifle · 30/05/2015 20:30

most people who have given what I have to their partners get unconditional love in return.

I really don't think unconditional love in this material and emotional realm is possible. Is that what you did - give in order to get? That's not unconditional ...

Ouchbloodyouch · 30/05/2015 20:30

You were loved. Sadly sometimes we grow we change. You are loved now? You sound lovely OP and thank you for your very reasonable reply on my thread I think your first break up shows you that you can and do recover. You haven't been through that as early as most of us.

Original poster

Hessen · 30/05/2015 20:37

Is that what you did - give in order to get? That's not unconditional ...

Not at all, I gave unconditionally because that's just how I love. I assumed from our marriage vows that she felt the same (and from conversations with her at the time too). I was obviously a bit naive to think that others feel the same as me.

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tipsytrifle · 30/05/2015 20:52

My apologies Hessen - it's a crazy, impossible road this unconditional thing. I did the same and received abuse/control/limitation for every breath offered. I guess I don't/won't love like that that any more.

Your naivete is pure, I'm sure. It just doesn't always work out. Couplings that are wrong will fall apart. Unconditional love is as much about letting go as holding close. Just my opinion. I'm sorry for your pain.

tipsytrifle · 30/05/2015 20:53

Jux · 30/05/2015 21:13

Unconditional love is for (should be for) children from their parents. Perhaps you expected too much from your ex?

I can see why your counselling was about your "mummy issues", but maybe it wasn't quite the right counsellor for you? Did you 'click'?

As I said upthread, maybe you are still going through the normal grief process, and time will sort you out.

If you need it to happen more quickly, then I think maybe some CBT could help.

Original poster

Hessen · 30/05/2015 21:20

I think unconditional love is fine for adults, just that people move past it after their first love fails because loving in that way results in such pain that you never love the same way again. Might be a bit naive, or unconventional, but anyone I've loved in my life, friends, family, partners, pets, I will still feel that automatic unconditional love feeling in the pit of my stomach for them. :)

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JeanneDeMontbaston · 30/05/2015 21:29

I wonder if we're all using 'unconditional' in the same way?

I don't mean a deep love, or a thrilling, innocent, first-love thing (though I do know what you mean about first love being very special). I mean, literally, without conditions.

Eg., I would expect a mother or father would still love their child even if s/he was, frankly, a terrible person. They might be torn apart by that love for someone who didn't seem to love them, or who did appalling things, but unconditional love would mean continuing to love.

Whereas, an adult who loved another adult unconditionally - eg., still loving someone who committed horrific crimes against them - would, I think, be acting in an unhealthy way.

That's what I mean by it. So, I would not want another adult to love me unconditionally, nor would I want to love them that way. I wonder if you mean something else?

Original poster

Hessen · 30/05/2015 21:38

Although love in itself means different things to different people, I do mean the same as you have described.

A love that can't be controlled, or dulled by events, it's just something that's automatically there regardless of circumstances. For me there's a difference between knowing you love someone and feeling you love someone, my current partner, my ex, my best friend... they could screw me over, cheat on me, betray my trust and it would be excruciating, but I would still love them and I wouldn't be able to help it.

I can see why a lot of people wouldn't think that was healthy, but to me it's just how I am. Thanks mum!

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JeanneDeMontbaston · 30/05/2015 21:40

I'm sorry. That sounds really hard.

I agree with the others - do try to get some better support for this. It sounds rotten for you and for them.

mimishimmi · 30/05/2015 22:46

Well, to be fair, you did break it off with her. if my husband did that to me (distinct possibility of that at the moment ) , I'd be putting up ashiekd and not discussing my feelings about the relationship breakdown either. She may miss you more than she lets on to you or, conversely, might feel a sense of relief.

TummyButtonFluff · 31/05/2015 04:05

But that's why you love her still, because of the 'mummy issues'. You're surely displacing your feelings on to her. She's now like the unreachable mother. I'd suggest more counselling.

Original poster

Hessen · 31/05/2015 09:20

I know it's the norm for long relationships to end, and most people are used to moving on with their feelings fairly quickly. I see that as an unfortunate coping mechanism though, I think if someone was important to you for half your life they should always be remembered fondly. Not being able to talk about 15 years of my life with anyone is sad, no reminiscing, nostalgic trips down memory lane. Just having to start from scratch again.

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StaceyAndTracey · 31/05/2015 09:42

You said you wanted to parent you daughter in the same way you did when you were together. Well I'm sorry, but that's impossible . You shoudl have understood that when you left your wife. Now you need to parent as separated / divorced parents do .

There's no point in you trying to recreate the past, you need to find a new model of parenting your DDd that doesn't involve daily contact with your ex. I haveno idea how either of your new partners put up with it TBH.

I do wonder if you are trying to control your ex from a distance . Did she ever say that she found you suffocating or controlling, or that you didn't give her any space ?

No one is trying to " logic you out of your feelings " . They are advising you to control you own actions. You don't have to act out or verbalise every feeling you have.

I also think you are unreasonable expecting you ex to constantly tell you how great you are . You left her because she didn't act loving enough towards you, give you the unconditional love you feel you deserve , but you still expect her to look aftre your emotional needs ?

You do sound very needy and I agree with the other posters who suggest that you seek some counselling . You really need to do this , if not for your own sake, for your daughters . If you have a pattern of being very needy and demanding with women , this will adversely your relationship with your DD when she is older.

comingintomyown · 31/05/2015 09:43

I am five and a half years on from divorce - he left me- and I still think about him an awful lot. For ages it worried me that it meant I somehow still cared about him too much or wasn't over him but I accepted a while ago that it didn't mean that at all and it's more about the fact we had a long time together with two DC. I dislike the phrase " moving on " and do not believe in time scales for these kinds of things, be gentle on your self about this and I think it will get easier when you can talk to your DD directly

StaceyAndTracey · 31/05/2015 09:48

"I know it's the norm for long relationships to end, and most people are used to moving on with their feelings fairly quickly. "

No , you are completely wrong . Most people struggle with their feelings aftre a marriage end . You only need to read the threads on this board .

" think if someone was important to you for half your life they should always be remembered fondly. "

No one is stoping you remembering your ex fondly . But you are expecting her to remember you fondly , even though you left her. Do you thinks that's reasonable or realistic ?

" Not being able to talk about 15 years of my life with anyone is sad, no reminiscing, nostalgic trips down memory lane. Just having to start from scratch again."

Yup, that's what happens when you end a marriage . Didn't you understand that at the time ?

Original poster

Hessen · 31/05/2015 10:38

Leaving was a mutual decision, I initiated and gave reasons why, she agreed and we separated. I didn't leave her in a painful way for her, if I did, or there was any kind of big event (like cheating) I would understand it more. But given that I was very kind in the separation, have financially and emotionally supported her since (which she has been grateful) - and everything we went through together. Then yes, it's hard that she doesn't fondly remember me.

Stacey, your posts have a lot of incorrect assumptions and interpretations, and quite a dismissive tone. I'm assuming you've been hurt by a relationship too, bit of man hatred in there and drawing comparisons between me and him. I'm sorry for your pain.

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Lovingfreedom · 31/05/2015 10:48

I disagree with you about Stacey's posts OP. You ended the marriage..you need to accept its over and move on. Your ex doesn't love you and if you're not very careful your new partner will get fed up with your obsession with your ex.

Original poster

Hessen · 31/05/2015 10:50

I didn't end the marriage. I have accepted it. It's hard to move on (hence the thread and several other similar threads). And my partner is fine, I'm not obsessed by any stretch. :)

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