Advice please - he won't commit

[1MrsRabbit]

Hi looking for advice from anyone who has been in my situation on how best to proceed...

Been with OH for 6 years, both late 20s now. All good so far, one wobbly week a couple of years back due to him bottling up his feelings but have both gotton a lot better at talking about our relationship.

Had a talk last night initiated by him as he feels like he is being pressurised into marriage. Made it clear that he didn't believe in marriage and he didn't think it would change anything in our relationship so why do it?

But marriage is important to me, I don't want a wedding so much as the reassurance and security and the doing things 'right' iyswim. I want to be married before we have children, he just wants children! We are already in the process of buying house together share finances etc.

Jus wondered if anyone else has been in this situation how did you resolve it, I don't want to end up resenting him or visa versa, and am glad that he plucked up the courage to talk about how he felt, as not been one to talk much in the past, but I can't help but feel hurt and rejected and unsure how to proceed. Thanks

Tell him you either get married at some point in the not too distant future or you split up and see what he says. DO NOT have children with a man who won't marry you. For the most part people don't want to get married because they are too immature to understand what marriage is, they have screwed up ideas about relationships and 'not being tied down' or they want to marry, they just don't want to marry you.

If you want to be married before having children, do not start TTC until after the wedding.

"Made it clear that he didn't believe in marriage and he didn't think it would change anything in our relationship so why do it?"

So you need to be asking him 'then why not?' (Be aware you might not like the answer, as there's a good chance that it is 'I just don't want to')

Feeling 'pressurised' after six years together doesn't sound like a great indicator (sorry).

I don't know how you get an unwilling man to marry you. But I do know that marriage does change things. I would advise every woman thinking of having children with her partner to marry first. It doesn't have to be a big white wedding, it can just be a simple visit to the registry office in your lunch hour. In most relationships, the woman sacrifices the most career wise when she has children, leading to an inequality in earning potential, pensions etc. If your relationship fails, you have many more rights as a wife thn you ever will have as a partner. Likewise, if either of you should die, you could be financially much better off as a wife because no inheritance tax would be payable.
So whilst he thinks it won't change anything, bear in mind that you are probably fairly equal about now but over a lifetime that could change significantly, and you wouldn't be unreasonable to want the protection the law offers a wife over a partner. Maybe if you explain this to him it might help?

If marriage isn't a big deal to him, then it should be something he's prepared to do for you if he loves you and you want it. If he's actively refusing, then not marrying (you) is more important to him than your happiness. The only way to find out is to do as Cailin suggests.

I always think of the Jennifer Aniston/Ben Affleck couple in the film 'he's not that into you' - but be prepared for a different outcome, and stick with it. Marriage for the reasons you want it, is much more than a piece of paper.

Been there. Was with my ex for 12 years, was hopelessly in love but he wouldn't commit.

We broke up (his idea) and I was heartbroken, but met dh and have now been married 17 years this year with two ds. If marriage is important to you take control. xx

'marriage won't change anything' - oh ha ha ha ha

He wants children... So, if he doesn't want to be married, he would need to understand that you would OF COURSE not be prepared to sacrifice any of your earning power/pension provision/independence to facilitate anything more than 50% of the childcare, right? Because he is refusing to enter into a contract which would recognise your extra contribution to the family team should you ever split.

Also, as it's far more likely that should you ever split, the children stay with the mother, it goes without saying that the children will have your surname. He's fine with that, yes?

Once you have children, you're a team whether you like it or not. Men who want children but not marriage are ones to be suspicious of... as sadly, 9 times out of ten it indicates a bloke who quite likes the thought of acquiring the family and all that goes with it, but is less keen on entering into legal contracts that would force him to continue to support that family in the fullest sense, as well as the sacrifices made by the other partner in order for him to have it, should he decide at some point that he has itchy feet.

No marriage = no babies.

Oh and yes, if you push and can't get any clear answer, I really would move on - as it's sadly a BIG sign that while he likes the idea of moving forward with HIS life (having kids etc.) he's not quite so enamoured of the idea of committing to YOU being a permanent fixture in it.

It tells you a lot. Don't ignore that message.

I know too many women who wasted time with men who felt there was no point in being married, only to be left holding the baby when said man moves on, finds someone else and strangely enough suddenly changes his mind. In some cases the man walked out after 10+ years and was married to someone else in less than a year. Marriage is no big deal when you're with someone you don't really want to marry.

Who is the higher earner and who would be making career sacrifices to care for the children?

If it is him who earns less and will take the hit of Children then fine, you wouldn't benefit from marriage. If you earn less and would be taking the hit do not agree to have children without marriage.

I'm with pp's here - no marriage, no kids. Why is it that some people are scared to commit to marriage when that can be ended if required, but want children which will leave you linked to someone for ever?

Men are quite correct in feeling that without marriage they can severely restrict their liabilities to the family should it break down. That's why.

And that's why I'd agree with pp. if he doesn't want marriage but wants Children he has to commit to 50/50 childcare or him doing the majority. Unfortunately this is still risky for women as women need time off after the birth to physically recover and to establish breastfeeding and then men often refuse to give up their privileged position no matter what they agreed to before the birth. Happened to my mother and to me.

Getting a man to agree to equal or main caring is not as secure as having a marriage contract.

Don't be afraid to put your expectations on the table. i fell in to the mistake in my 20s of not wanting to be 'demanding' (I was more of a people -pleaser back then).

Your OH has told you he feels pressured in to marriage. Well the flip side of that is that you are being pressured in to accepting a set up that doesn't suit you, isn't what you want and could leave you vulnerable!

I walked away from my x oh. He hadn't wanted to get married. My children have his sur name which annoys me. My decision. My fault. But again I was pressured in to that because I didn't want to be seen to be using the only leverage I had to get married! So I just rolled over.

I agree with many PPs. No marriage, NO KIDS. And I say that as somebody who made this very mistake. I'm not judging anybody else who comes on and says they've done that too and it's all fine. But I wouldn't want my dd to do it. I'd want her to have children with a man whose biggest fear was losing her, not with a man whose biggest fear was losing his assets.

The thing with getting a man to agree to 50:50 childcare is that in theory that's beautiful......... but given that most men still earn more than most women, the practical side of that is going to be that a year from the decision, the numbers will be on the table and you might end up feeling that YOU are the one standing in the way of a decent car, or that third bedroom you so badly need in the loft..........

But bear in mind that while you remain married it is difficult to exercise your rights and divorce is no picnic. My mother put up with it and is now pursuing a very successful career (she has an MBE in fact) and my dad is moaning that she spent all the child years with the children and is now spending all her time at work and not with him, boo hoo.

I've chosen the separation and divorce route. Neither is easy with an entitled/selfish man, best thing would be to avoid tying yourself to one in the first place. This seems like a red flag you could therefore benefit from tbh.

My mum has earned more than my dad since she went back to work btw. She now earns almost double as he is retiring and she is at the peak of her career.

And they were both at uni together, on the same course and in the same year although she took a year out with depression so qualified a year behind him. She had 12 years out of the workplace raising 4 children and went back when my brother started primary school. I think the biggest thing that affects women's wages is having the childcare burden. I know there is also some prejudice as well but that's the main thing so don't lumber yourself with the childcare without a marriage contract and even then think carefully about being the main carer.

ps, and not that I'd recommend it, but if you go for this plan, the children have your sur name

If you marry later the children can take their father's sur name if he marries their mother. (Hope I've phrased that coherently)

If you don't marry later but in fact, regret your decision like i did then the children can never take their mother's sur name.

It's something to think about. It's a card you still retain. Don't hand it over like a sheep. I was shouted down for saying this on mn once before (different name) but it is a strong card that you do hold if you have to ba11s to use it. He cannot force you to give the children his sur name if you aren't married. So don't roll over on that one.

Yours sincerely

LearnFromMyMistakes!!

ps, you don't have to learn every lesson the hard way, you can listen to us! I sometimes have to laugh at myself because I learnt every lesson the hard way! Could I be told nothing!?

Neither is easy with an entitled/selfish man, best thing would be to avoid tying yourself to one in the first place. This seems like a red flag you could therefore benefit from tbh.

This is the crux, OP. Step back a bit - what this situation is showing you is part of this guy's character. He knows full well that marriage isn't 'just a bit of paper' otherwise he'd have no problems with just getting the meaningless bit of paper if it's what you wanted...He's selfish. He'd like you to shoulder the risk and him have the benefits. Think carefully if, even if he ends up going along with marriage, whether he's really A1 partner/dad material. He doesn't sound like it.

I do have a spiteful and private giggle that she is so much more successful than him despite not being remotely interested in success and despite having been lumbered with all the childcare. We barely new he existed when we were kids, he worked away a lot and never interacted with the family except on holidays where we were forced to trip along to things he wanted to do while he grumped at how irritating we were,

I have seen it from the point of view of the man. He wouldn't let go of his long term girlfriend either.

Now he's on his second child with another woman. Maybe it was an accident and he just went along with it (I never asked) and he didn't have to actively commit.

But, as others, if you are getting children make sure that you and them are protected, particularly if you ever consider going part-time or becoming a sahm.

If you decide not to marry, then make sure you are fully protected financially should you buy property and then split up.

But I wouldn't use any leverage to get married. I'd put the facts on the table, and tell him that if he was not prepared to commit to me through a contract (legal and personal), then I wouldn't be wasting my life either.

Oh and since we split my ex h is absolutely desperate to do childcare even though when we were married it was 'impossible' because now he feels he is losing 'his' family...

Neither thing is easy for me and the kids. He sees everything from his perspective and is apparently unable to think of what's best for the dc.