Being a counsellor is easy money isn't it?

[Happyfriday]

What do they actually do for their £40-50 an hour?

I have had three short blocks of counselling in recent years. The first one looked shocked, the second one agreed with everything I said and the third one wanted to laugh everything off and then apologised for it.

How do you know what you need? I'm not sure if I should be looking for a certain type of counselling or give it more time.

When people say they are in therapy what do they mean?

I sought counselling to help me through my divorce. Yes, it's costly, but it gave me the opportunity, no I will restate that, it forced me to talk about things that were on my mind. Essentially I paid someone to listen to my 'woe is me', it forced me to face up to my horrendous situation because I had to say it out loud. Without it, I don't think I'd be here.

I gave up with the first counsellor because they were too passive, they couldn't offer any help but just summarised what I was saying into soundbites that made me feel worse.

The second counsellor would try all sorts - some things that worked for me, other things that I baulked at but hey I went with it, and they suggested things that I just said no to. I genuinely believe she was trying to find practical solutions and getting me to think about things differently using any number of different approaches. I believe she spent many hours researching and investigating solutions for my benefit. She worked for me outside of the hour of the week that I saw (and paid for) her.

By seeing her, it also guaranteed I got out of the house when my depression was destroying me.

So no, it isn't necessarily easy money. It's taking on a responsibility for someone's welfare - and listening to them when they are at their most vulnerable, but also trying to find ways that work that conquer their issues - no matter how innovative they may be. A good counsellor doesn't think of it as a 'one hour shop' but one hour of contact, several hours of research to find whatever it is that's going to assist their client work through the issues they are facing.

Like any profession: there's the free-riders and the dedicated. And a ton of people in between.

I like my counselor, and I feel that she is always with me, not wandering off into her own thoughts. God knows how she does that, because I have a real problem with shutting off from people when they are talking.

After reading this thread though, I am worried that I shouldn't like her, or I should feel challenged more than I do? Perhaps she feels I am too fragile yet to really push me? I have been going for 8 weeks, what should I be seeing after that time frame?

Yeah happyfriday, I think part of the issue can be that people have wildly varying ideas of what they think therapy is! Some of my clients are surprised I don't have a couch for them to lie down on

Sliceofsoup - you should like your counsellor, it's important studies have shown consistently that the therapeutic relationship is actually more important than the approach used.

Your counsellor may have a non-challenging style. Many do. This is not wrong, but if you feel it's a bit slow and not dynamic enough then don't b afraid to say so.

No, it's not easy money.

No I don't mind taking it slow, and I am in it for the long haul, but at the same time, I don't want to waste my money and my time if it doesn't lead to anywhere. If that even makes sense.

There have been a lot of different issues, which have taken quite a while to get through, so I suppose that could be why, and soon she might change gear a bit.

Thanks, glad to hear that I should like her.

I am sure working in the NHS is very different from working privately from your spare room.

I have taken from this thread that there are different types of counsellors and different experiences of counselling.

My point was that I felt all my counsellors did was listen and I was expecting more. I had high hopes of a new course of counselling but I feel I could have saved or spent the £200 I have spent this month on something more worthwhile. I won't be going back.

Thanks for your responses.

"Personal therapy is mandatory for BACP accredited courses"

No, it's not! The majority of BACP-accredited courses require it but BACP itself currently does not. Here:

"Some courses will require trainees to have a minimum number of hours personal therapy. This requirement often depends on the course modality.

It is not a requirement for BACP membership or Accreditation to be in personal therapy unless it is a course requirement."

The criteria used to include 40 hours of personal therapy (which for a trainee counsellor is frankly nothing) but this was removed.

UKCP has much stricter rules on this.

I'm seeing a councellor atm. It's via the NHS, I think she's a trainee clinical psychologist.

I can't say I'm finding it much good so far. She is very naive about certain things, I'm starting to doubt she has the life experience to do the job properly.

She is trying cbt which I don't mind a bit of (had a few sessions a few years ago which did have a postive effect in the short term) but I do feel like that's a sticking plaster and not really addressing underlying causes of issues I have.

I'm going to keep going but I don't think I would if I was paying for it!

Happyfriday I really think you need to talk to your counsellor.

See here: www.therapytoday.net/article/show/1713/the-case-for-reinstating-the-40-hours/

Sorry for any confusion, tha last post was for MsJ

CBT does not address underlying issues.
It gives you some coping strategies.

Nine years, ten counsellors, various rates of pay, most NHS. Some were really annoying but they all had to listen to a great deal of my moaning on about how I'd been treated by other people, and try to put it to me gently that I might actually be able to improve situations by taking some control myself.

I think they earn whatever they are paid.

I've never seen a counsellor myself, but know two couples who have gone for couples counselling, and in both cases the counsellor seems to have been won over by the man. In the one couple where the man was having multiple affairs, the woman was advised to make more effort to make him feel wanted - couldn't believe it. This has made me quite sceptical about counselling, though I would like to see one myself, I don't know how you'd actually go about finding a decent one.

If your friends went for couples counselling with relate then it's likely that they weren't particularly well trained, relate train heir own counsellors and it's a very short and specific training which won't have covered the usual approaches in the depth of a 'proper' counselling course. I would never use relate personally, they're a rip off for what you get too.

Best place to start is the BACP register, think someone linked to it earlier but here:

www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists

I've had relationship and solo counselling and I thought it was a bit pointless until I met my current therapist (she's fantastic). Actually, I was really frustrated with my current therapist, until I realised (a year in) that the point wasn't her 'fixing' me but being allowed the space to fix myself. Through therapy I have had the space and time to address my weaknesses and my strengthen my strengths.

Friends can be great listeners but are not in the same league as a trained counsellor. I think I'm a good listener but resisting the temptation to find solutions and to 'fix' things, separating out my own prejudices and impatience would make me a rubbish counsellor.

There are poor therapists out there but I also think that most people have unrealistic expectations because by the time they reach counselling, they are desperate and impatient.

The relationship I have with my counsellor is such an intense personal one, she knows things about me that no one else knows (or will ever know). I bumped into her in the library once and it was awkward, normally time flies when we talk but for me she exists in a room in a nondescript building, not in my mundane life.

I'm sorry you've had poor experiences but like me, there's a good chance that it wasn't all their fault and your expectations and impatience played their part in your disappointing experience.

I have seen two counsellors due to PND issues and they were both worth their weight in gold. It must be such a disappointment to let you yourself open up to someone and it not be helpful

I think there's quite a lot of defensiveness on the thread where there needn't be, there are crap counsellors just as there are crap teachers or any other professions. Plus in a profession where the processes are very soft (talking, listening) and the outputs very intangible (people feeling better or not), it's not surprising some people have bad experiences.

Having said that, I completely disagree that friends could fulfil the same function as weekly counselling. I love my friends, which is precisely why I don't subject them to an hour of me crying, exploring, ranting, thinking aloud about the most intimate parts of my life, it would be completely beyond the bounds of our friendship. The odd phone call, upset is normal, but that regularity, plus the fact they may want to do the same and share stuff with you, means its not the same at all. If you are treating your friends like a counsellor, that's not great.

I also think sometimes you are in a place where outpouring your thoughts is extremely helpful and sometimes you are not. I saw a counsellor once for only six weeks and it was extraordinarily helpful, she was excellent and very good at getting me to think through what I was saying and stepping outside my usual perspective to view things differently, but in a very subtle way. But just getting a load of stuff off my chest and being able to be distressed, was a huge help to me.

Not all therapies work for all people, some people hate mindfulness or just don't/can't do it, doesn't mean people shouldn't offer expensive mindfulness courses.

If you don't think that the act of talking about your problems is helpful for you, and you've had repeated gos and none have worked out, I'm not sure changing therapists, or to a different type of therapy would help, because for me, just the act of blathering on is really helpful and even if they were not the world's best therapist, I would get something out of it such as emotional release.

I haven't read every post so apologies in advance if I've missed something.

Part of the problem is that the terms 'counsellor' and 'therapist' are often used interchangeably on MN when they're quite different.

A counsellor typically creates a safe space in which people can talk about issues in their life. The approach is generally non-interventionist. The counsellor doesn't actively seek to solve the problem. They empathise, help people get in touch with their 'here and now feelings', and provide a sounding board. There's value in that.

Most therapists (I am one) typically take a more interventionist approach - actively seeking ways to mitigate the issues the person is dealing with. I use hypnosis, CBT, NLP (am certified in all of them) plus other methodologies to bring about rapid change.

Some counsellors also have training/skills in therapy but in my experience most don't.

Often the advice on MN is 'see a counsellor'. This is good advice if you just want to explore your feelings and have someone listen with empathy. If you want to improve your self-esteem, deal more effectively with a difficult person, stop comfort eating, get over feelings of guilt/shame (etc etc) then therapy is a better choice.

Of course, there are good and bad therapists, in the same way there are good and bad counsellors.

Sorry but I disagree with that completely. Counsellor and psychotherapist are, for the most part, interchangeable. I did an essay on this in the first year of my degree and that was certainly the BACP's stance.

When my marriage was falling apart I went to a BACP counsellor for two years. I also went with EA H to Relate and to a private family therapist. He saw an individual therapist too.
I loved my time in therapy. It helped me work out what had gone wrong, why I was so angry and unhappy, and deal with the end of a 27 year relationship. I was able to change my behaviour and ultimately my feelings and outlook with practice and hard work.
My XH hated it. All the therapists were against him, even his own. He tried to persuade them all I was in the wrong and he was a victim of my abusive nature. He was thrilled when I admitted my part in our problems and cried my heart out. He never accepted his share of responsibility. He hasnt changed at all. I think it was too challenging for him and he didnt see why he should alter when it was all my fault.
But I am happy now and wiser and more self aware. And apart from him!

That may or may not be the BACP's stance, HeadDoctor, but that's not the reality - as the comments on this thread and my 30 years of experience show.

In my work in the caring professions I've had a lot of interaction with therapists. I must admit although I'm supposed to be totally on board with the supposed benefits in fact I think it's one of those professions which is built up to be very important but actually isn't rocket science and often has mininal impact. Different where people are spending their own money and are "ready" but many aren't, especially younger people.

whysoangry That's interesting because I definitely need/want more than a listening ear or empathy so that is why I have not found counselling effective for me. It has been all too vague and wishy washy in practice.

I would respond better to an 'interventionist' approach. I want to go away with food for thought. I want my thinking to be challenged. I want someone to help me spot the patterns in my behaviour. I want to take action to improve things.