"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Polly - as the saying goes 'if it's too good to be true'

Hello stately homers. After another horrible argument (rather nasty verbal bashing and physical intimidation) with my parents at the weekend where they tried to convince me that my ds is a bad child and I am not being strict enough with him, my mother broke down and poured her heart out about her abusive upbringing. She was physically and emotional emotionally abused very badly, and I am really shocked and sad about the seriousness of it. I knew things were probably bad but didnt realise that bad. Not sure how to cope with this information .

Sleepy that sounds gruelling for you. I think what matters now is that she takes responsibility for doing something about it. If she is willing to try and get some help, great; if it's going to be used as her excuse for berating or abusing you, not great.

It may be a reason; it's not an excuse. The two are very different things.

As to how you can cope with it, would you consider ringing Samaritans to talk it through?

Thank you peppermintcrayon. This is so hard, and in some ways even harder than what I have been through with my abusive ex. I just feel so bad for her, which is confusing because she has also shown the same abusive behaviours towards me, some of them physical. I guess I am in shock and feel so messed up. I can't believe my grandparents were so, well, evil, to be honest. And they were the ones that called me evil! My father hates me, he looks at me with a disdainful sneer like I am the biggest problem ever and he is now starting to talk to my son in the same nasty way that he treated me. Shouting and labelling him as a 'problem child', and me as a bad parent, merely because he threw some food on the floor. He is not even 2 yet!
I do need to talk to someone because I don't even feel like I am on this planet any more. It's like I am full of tears but still very much in robot spaced out mode so they are just not going anywhere.

Sleepy it is very sad that this happened to her, but you are not the only person on the planet who is in a position to feel bad for her. She can turn to other people, to friends or counsellors.

But you are her daughter and she is your only mum. You needed her and she has made your life a misery. The fact she had an abusive childhood doesn't mean you have to squash all your feelings and take responsibility for rescuing her. It's very sad, but it's not your job to take care of her. You are allowed to focus on you and on the effects all of this has had on you as both a primary and secondary survivor. By which I mean you survived the trauma of the parenting you received, and also suffered because of the trauma your mother experienced.

I hope you can talk to someone; this would come as a shock to anyone. Of course you feel bad for her! You are a normal, compassionate human being and you don't like to hear that other people have been abused. But the fact she has also treated you very badly means it is very confusing and I'm not surprised you feel like you've basically been hit by a truck. Try to be kind to yourself, if you can?

Sleepytrain,

Precisely what Peppermint stated in her last two posts.

Re your comment:-

"My father hates me, he looks at me with a disdainful sneer like I am the biggest problem ever and he is now starting to talk to my son in the same nasty way that he treated me. Shouting and labelling him as a 'problem child', and me as a bad parent, merely because he threw some food on the floor. He is not even 2 yet!"

You and your son need to stay away from these people completely. They were not good parents to you and such people more often than not become toxic grandparents to their grandchildren. If they are too toxic for you, they are far too toxic for your vulnerable and defenceless child as well. Not altogether surprisingly your father is starting on his grandson. Your son needs healthy role models instead, not toxic ones like this particular individual and his wife.

Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents’ (and society’s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate first hand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.

The children’s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)

The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different — instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to.

Do not be that well intentioned parent.

Thank you Attila & peppermint, it really concerns me that my ds will feel upset and affected by my fathers harsh words.
I was trying to wean myself off my antidepressants but think I will have to go back to the full dose again after this.
Feel I am loosing a grip and the simplest tasks are impossible.

Hi sleepytrain, please try keep your d's away from your parents, i think my main reason for going lc with my family was because last Christmas it hit me they will never change and I could see as plain as day they were treating their grandchildren different, because it was Christmas and everyone was around etc it became obviously my golden brothers children were given all the attention and the best presents, my dd is their first grandchild so it's not as bad for her but I could see my younger brother( my fellow scapegoat and ally!!) Noticed that his son was practically ignored which he was it upsets me even thinking about it now. My parents barely spoke two words to my dear nephew he wasn't included in games that my parents played with the other grandchildren etc

In one way it such a eye opener I went home and decided enough is enough that I can't be part of their shit anymore, I will never forget the look on my brothers face that day, my poor brother who tried to kill himself a few years ago and I know part of the reason why he did it was because of our childhood, and he watching his little son being ignored,
history is obviously repeating it self in my toxic family but I won't be around them to see it, I have my own family now and thankfully my brother has backed away too and we have each other!! Only last week we were texting each other laughing how our so called family have no one to blame now for everything or anything that goes wrong

goldenrose I am so sorry that you experienced that from your parents . It's so malicious and nasty and I believe you have definitely done the right thing. Thank goodness you have your brother. Yes, it's the realisation that they will never change, and also that you can't really do anything to shield dc's from the toxicity, as long as they are exposed to them. The horrible, negative, critical, volatile atmosphere seeps into everyone's pores.

Your post reminded me of the fact that my mother is always gushing about my brother's dd to me, and the other day announced to her, in front of me, that she 'loves her more than anything'. A dig at me perhaps? Wouldn't surprise me. Nothing does anymore.

Sleepy I don't know what to say about your mum but you need to either sort your dad out or keep your son away from him.

When my DS was younger my parents were forever calling him naughty. He was a typical boy who wanted to be on the go all the time and when expected to sit in one place for hours on end would start to mess about. I was constantly telling them this

My DS had left school now but still says I don't want to go to see them they hate me anyway.All he heard was how good my DD and DN were and how naughty he was

Sleepy, what everyone else says.

This: The fact she had an abusive childhood doesn't mean you have to squash all your feelings and take responsibility for rescuing her. pretty much describes my entire childhood. I spent so much time running around after Dad and trying to help him against all the horrible enemies who were so cruel to him.

It was exhausting, unsustainable, and I ended up in therapy and with lots of medication (not all of it is Dad's fault, but it was certainly a contributing factor).

Now I'm thinking more clearly, I can see that actually, enemy after enemy after enemy was largely because the problem was him. Yes he had a difficult childhood and could really have done with a better Mum. But his absolute refusal to deal with it is what caused him the damage. I couldn't fix it for him. I felt like such a failure for not being able to fix it for him.

But unless he was prepared to do something to deal with it all himself there was nothing in the world that could be done. It was too convenient to continue playing the victim, and it was too convenient to use his daughter as a little soldier to fight on his behalf.

Ultimately, that should never, ever have happened.

I also agree with the others about keeping your DS away for him as much as possible, and also, when these things happen, to explain that he is absolutely not the problem.

pincushion totally relate to that, it's exhausting isn't it? My parents were so negative about people I grew up thinking the world was not nice place.

I've gone back to my increased anti depressant dose as feeling so low recently. Have got my abusive ex treating me with utter contempt too which doesn't help.

Hello all, have been staying away for a while as I've been recovering from surgery and feeling a bit vulnerable.

Even last Sept when I was still in contact with my mum, I knew I would not tell her about having surgery until afterwards, as she would have just made it all about her, probably turned up at my house or at the hospital screaming "YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS!" into my face and complaining about how worrying and traumatic it was for her to deal with. Oh and then probably telling me not to tell anyone in the family because I've had weight loss surgery which is horribly shameful. (She's borderline anorexic, btw.)

So now - NC. Not a single thing to worry about (apart from, you know, getting over surgery.) No guilt trips, no "I'm so disappointed in you", no multiple daily phone calls and emails to "just checking your still alive, I do worry about you living alone" or demands for me to show her my incisions so she can make sure they're healing.

NC is so immensely freeing, it really is.

I'm so pleased, Pocket. I feel liberated too.

That's good to hear pocket, & hope you recover quickly.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you go about NC? Every time I see my parents it takes a good week to recover, at least, so seriously thinking about it.

Pocket, I hope your recovery is going okay and that the surgery went well. I'm pleased for you that you have been able to go NC as it sounds like it is absolutely the best thing for you right now. I'm wishing you strength.

Sleepytrain I know you asked Pocket, so sorry for jumping in. But the best way to go NC is often just to quietly stop contacting them, make yourself unavailable, change phone numbers if need be, block emails. Don't try to tell them what you're doing or explain; it's a fruitless mission.

Wishing you a speedy recovery pocket

pocket glad to hear the surgery went well and that you feel so good, in more ways than one :) take care

Thanks all :)

Sleepy I went NC with her in February and I sent her an email to explain that I was very angry with her (I went into quite a lot of details) and I didn't want any contact with her "for the time being". I said that meant no emails, no texts, no phone calls, no cards. I also urged her to seek therapy, which she undoubtedly has not done.

She emailed me back one time to day "I understand and thank you for explaining". She hasn't contacted me since. Bizarrely, she has also not contacted my sister, including not sending my sis a birthday card. So fuck it, I'm done with her for good.

In my case, just becoming unavailable wouldn't have worked as she is very engulfing and catastrophises everything. We were already at the point where if she didn't get a reply within 24hrs of sending an email, she would keep sending ones saying "I'm worried! where are you?" so complete radio silence would probably have ended up with her roping my sister in which would have been really difficult for my sis, and would probably have culminated in her ringing the police or fire brigade because she'd convinced herself that I was lying dead on the floor of my flat, my cat miaowing tragically over my lifeless corpse.

one time to say.

sleepy I just wanted to add that with one set of grandparents my siblings and I were definitely the least favoured. I was the worst. It's very damaging and lonely and I eventually went NC with them anyway. Please don't hesitate to stand up for your dc. You sound like a really caring parent so don't worry, and it's a really good thing if you've acknowledged that you need to push your dose back up and have done that. You've taken some control. You can start lowering them again if you want to when things are a bit easier - because they will be at some point.

pocket my cat would raise one cat eyebrow disdainfully and go back to sleep

I've been trying to resist the urge to be grim, and I'm failing.

Your mother could really be happy and imagine the cat eating your lifeless corpse...

er, I hope that wasn't a black joke too far pocket

LOL. Knowing my cat she'd have me on the George Foreman grill before my body had even cooled