"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Congratulations pocket! Good news is so much better without the barb of uncertainty that our loved ones like to stick in!

Thank you all so much for your kind replies. Meerka, I will use that if my siblings ever confront me about reducing contact to the bare minimum. DH and I had a long talk about it all this morning, he is trying to coax me out of my "I know what she is up to" fear. Thankfully he has a v good relationship with brother and my SIL, who also really struggles with my mother (mother is enormously intimidated by her). DH assures me that SIL is v aware of what mother is doing, so she should keep my brother from being too manipulated.

Well I've come to conclusion I'm not a parent blamer as I left home unable to cook and it never occurred to me to blame my parents, anything I couldn't do I've always figured out for myself and it's never occurred to me to think why didn't my parents teach me that. Only when it comes to the mental issues their behaviour have clearly given me and the only way to fix that is to address it.

Asteria sounds like you have a lot of support, that's great xxx

Just catching up as I haven't had a reliable enough internet connection to keep up since I posted last. Sorry to see so many other people have parents like this, I never knew just how sadly common it was. Since I posted last I have had a few guilt inducing texts from my mum asking how I am and how my DC are. I did respond to a couple with a very basic "we are fine" but she just responds with something like "I'm only asking because I care". If I don't respond to that (I've stopped) I get a passive aggressive message suggesting I should be happy that she is showing an interest. Atilla's post above is wonderful and describes them perfectly. I read it out to my DH and he thinks it must have been written about them.

I can completely relate to happybubble's post "I have a great life, amazing husband, great kids, lovely house, really landed on my feet despite it all but I have such an ache in my heart that won't ever let me fully be happy.". This is what I really need to work on.

pocketsaviour Well done on the job, that's wonderful! I wish you lots of success and happiness with it :)

My next battle is how to handle the birth of my next child. They ruined the early days with my DD with one of their outbursts and I'm fully expecting them to find a way to try to do it again. I don't plan to tell them when it happened but they will find out and try to make it all about them.

Tired can you just not have them around until you have settled in at home with your new baby? They could visit in the hospital but you could then say that you need a month to adjust.

Congratulations Pocket YaY!!!

I think I have name changed a couple of times during this thread over the last year so sorry if I have lost people

Hi guys I used to post years ago under another name. I eventually went NC with my entire family (though not many of them). It's been over two years now since any form of contact.

It's been largely healing to be honest. Just the peace and quiet to be able to focus on my three children and my dh has been worth it. I have time and energy to invest in other worthwhile friendships too.

There are still moments of sadness. Moments when the anger surfaces, such as when they have periodically tried to 'Hoover' me with letters or presents for the kids.

Not sure why I posted this or started reading again but this thread was an absolute life line for me.

I'm not suggesting NC is for everyone by the way. Just wanted to share my experience and say you are all being very brave.

One thing I will add is that the guilt has diminished. The way I see it is that not many would dispute divorcing from an unhappy or abusive marriage. Why should it be any different for relatives?

Hi Shaffron glad you feel more at peace now.

I understand that feeling. You feel free to be yourself again and feel better about who you are. I was NC for 22 years but then they turned up and wanted to reconnect as one of them were ill. That was difficult and in the end I decided to see them and try and move forward. It hasn't been easy these last three years as they live in another country but we have kept in touch. Now the other one is very very ill. Its difficult when this happens. I decided that I would let them back because I don't want them to die and me to hate myself and feel guilt and sadness because I turned them away.
Doesn't change the past but I have done my best to move forward.

Tired, well done on not replying, I always feel guilty when I get texts like that, need to get stronger! Just writing on here is helping my heart even though she's being hurtful currently (she's ignoring something important to me and waiting for me to react and ask her why)

I have been there with the birth thing as I said above, had her in there when I didn't want too then when I got the balls to not allow her I was made to feel awful during labour and right after with guilt trips and nasty words. Hope it all goes well for you xxx

Shaffron well done on the no contact its great to hear how freeing it's been for you, especially the guilt which is my biggest hold to my mum. Completely agree that you wouldn't stay in a marriage this this so why stick by a bad mother. I've never got why being a blood relation gives them right to treat you badly, should be treating you better if anything.

That is tough blodss, 22 years is a long time, I'm guessing you went from strength to strength in that time?! Do you feel stronger with them now and do they treat you with more respect? Xxx

Hi Shaffron -another fellow long term LC/NC. I dread the time that a serious illness crops up and wonder how I will feel and whether I will be sucked back in etc. I once said to my therapist 'where does this all end? Where will it go?' She said 'this will go on as long as your M is still alive'

Hi again. Yes although I have found a certain level of peace, I still dream about them sometimes. And I still wonder how I will feel when they die.

happy I was definitely happier once I got used to being estranged from them but always thought that one day there would be a knock at the door to tell me one of them had died. I am an only child and have no other relatives as I grew up in another country so never knew any.
I was glad to bring my children up without their influence as I knew that they could hurt my children like they did me.
I feel stronger with them in one way but they still affect me by what they say. Thought I would be over it but by letting them back in I don't want to rock the boat. Don't want the guilt as they are both very unwell. If they ever cross a line I would of course say something but its not in my nature really.

It is hard when they get unwell and older. At some point you will need to decide whether to help them or turn your back on them, Very hard and you don't want to have regrets when they die. Very hard indeed.

One thing that helped me in deciding whether or not to invite my biol. mother and adoptive father to my wedding, was trying to work out if i'd regret it after 15 years if I didn't invite them.

Sadly, the clear answer was that I would not regret it because one would have made faux-polite but really nasty comments behind my back the whole time, and the other would have been the total focus of attention, husband and I would have been bit-part players in our own wedding.

Regarding letting people back in, and will you regret it if they die and you're not in contact, maybe the "will I regret it in 15 years' thing might be helpful in deciding.

I know that when my father dies, I will go to the funeral (if I hear about it, that is) but no way would I try to support him up until his death. 30 years' unpleasantness and neglect in the face of every effort that I made, have had their effect. Perhaps harsh of me, but I feel my lovely adoptive mother would have been deeply ashamed of him and ... I think you often reap what you sow. Took me 30 years to reach that conclusion though. Until the last few years I'd have done anything to be on good terms with him. But life really is too short.

I also had to choose not to invite my M to my (2nd) wedding. Thought I'd got away with it, too. Never heard anything about that. Eight years later, she created a massive shitstorm over it. This shit does follow us around, even with long periods of respite during NC.

I'm sorry I'm not offering support at the moment. I will at some point in the future, I promise, I really will.

I lost my dear beautiful, kind Little Hubby, a couple of months ago. Mother couldn't be arsed to come to his funeral. She found it too upsetting to send flowers, so demanded I arrange some flowers on her behalf. Because "He was like a son to her!" (she met DLH once.) When I told her I'd appreciate her sending flowers/making a donation to the charity I listed, she put the phone down on me, 3 times. Had a go at me for spending "too much money" on an urn, getting our wedding rings made into a piece of memorial jewellery.

Do you know...I have no shame in wishing my mother had died in DH's place.

Some people should not have children.

Rubbish mantra - that's so sad to hear. I Don't know what to say really but I'd like to send you all my best wishes x

RubbishMantra I saw your thread regarding your loss and was aghast at your mum's pathetic behaviour.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss and that you didn't have the support you should have from your family of origin.

How are you doing now?

rubbish I am so so sorry to hear about your loss. Your mother's reaction is just beyond words.

that's not meant to be how things are.

Thank you threads, pocket and Meer. I learnt a valuable life lesson. You have to be extra vigilant when you're in a vulnerable place. It's like a certain type of person, in seeing your vulnerability, goes in for a particularly vicious attack. Why? I wish I knew.

I'm trying so hard not to allow the parents viciousness taint my grieving process for DH, but it's a daily struggle. I've written the parentals an awful lot of emails, but don't send them, because I know I'll never receive any kind of empathy from them. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm fucked off that they've made this all about them (poor us, we can't bear it) or conveniently ignoring the fact I'm grieving when they want me to do something for them. I used to wonder what was wrong with me when I realised I disliked my parents. Thought I must be a cold unfeeling bitch.

Some good stuff has come out of all this though. My mother (I call her Toilet Seat Mother) had driven wedges between my sisters and I, playing favourites etc. Since DH died, we siblings are becoming much closer. They too were disgusted and shocked at the toilet seats' behaviour.

Rubbish mantra, I'm so so sorry to hear of your loss and how your mother is treating you through out your grieving. It is absolutely shocking behaviour, but not surprising. Glad you and your siblings are now bonding though. Sending love xxx

Rubbish Mantra

.

Your mother's reaction to your DH's passing is indeed beyond words.

Hopefully your siblings and you will continue to find comfort in each other.

(Narcissists like your mother are generally contemptuous of others. This seems to spring, at base, from their general lack of empathy, and it comes out as (at best) a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns, standards, property, work, etc. It is also connected to their overall negative outlook on life).

Rubbish* Im so so sorry that you lost your husband. Im sure he was a lovely man. You wouldn't have been with him otherwise. You are not a cold hearted bitch to not like your parents. I don't like mine, I feel bad for that but I just don't like them. I love them but I don't like them if that makes sense. I will always love them even though they make me feel unhappy. I am so glad to hear your siblings and you are becoming closer (if that's what you want). You need that.

Rubbish that should have said.

Rubbish - I'm a lurker on this amazing thread. Am reading through the backlog, and promise I'll post soon - what a fabulously supportive place this is. I couldn't read what you wrote here though, and run. I'm so very sorry about your husband.

You are so right that these sicko individuals love vulnerability - they stick in the knife, and twist it a bit further.

My situation is nowhere near as awful as yours - but your post rang bells. I was diagnosed with breast cancer last year (I'm OK now). My weirdo mother was desperately excited about this, and made everything about her. I wanted to keep things low-key - she told many dozens of people. Could not have given a stuff about my privacy, it was all about "how she would cope" (my cancer was very early stage - my prognosis was great). I didn't receive one single card or call from any of these pals of hers, even the ones I knew quite well, even the ones who had had breast cancer themselves - Lord only know what pile of cr*p she told them to keep them away from me.

Then - less than a week after my mastectomy - when I was still really quite poorly, the weakest emotionally and physically I've ever been in my life, she pulled out the big guns and launched a vicious character assassination on both me, and my dear husband (who had looked after all my post-surgery care - as she found it all too much). Really aggressive stuff. The next day - when I was waiting at the hospital to get my dressings changed FFS - she texted to say it would be better if she withdrew from my life entirely. It was just so hard for her to be a mother to me - I was so "difficult" - and she'd rather remember things the way they used to be.

Looking back at the emails we exchanged later I so wish I had just taken her up on the offer. Nasty, nasty, self pitying stuff, in which she never once asked me how I was. My replies were so reasonable, so logical and caring. It's a total headf*ck isn't it? Why did I reason with her? The night after her broadside I found myself sitting in the garden at two in the morning with a cigarette and a large glass of wine - really not the way to recover from cancer surgery.

Sorry - this is an epic. Just to say, sending much love and strength your way. Your mother is an utter bitch. I don't know why these people behave this way either - but you must know that it is, and never was, your fault.

Hugs
Greenleaf1 xx

Rubbish. I meant to say also, in my voyage of discovery about my bizarro mother I came across this website www.narcissisticmother.com. It's run by an American psychologist and is full of fascinating stuff, including hundreds of comments from people like us.

I mention it, because one woman was subjected to the same treatment as you by her mother when her husband died. It left me open mouthed. I can't remember exactly where it was on the site, but hope you can find it, even just to know you're not alone. It's frightening isn't it to think our very survival as tiny babies was in the hands of monsters like this? It's wonderful though you are now bonding with your siblings.

much love,
Greenleaf1 xx

I read some of your original thread Mantra and thought that your mothers' behaviour sounded so toxic, I'm glad you've found the SH threads, but sorry you have to be here, iyswim.
I checked that narcissistic mother site and my mother does/has done the following from the checklist: 3,4,5,6,7,14,15,17,20,21,22,26,28,30,37,43,48,50 and 51. Speaks for itself really I think.