"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

LittleBlueOneTwo

NONE of this was and is your fault; I repeat none of it.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause it
You cannot cure it
You cannot control it

Your parents have utterly failed you and your sibling here. The only good to have come out of their failed relationship at all is you and your sibling.

If anyone is at fault here the blame lies squarely at the feet of both your mother and father. They are both as bad as one another. You are only responsible for your own actions, not other people's. How dare your dad as well try and blame you for your mother's drinking problem.

I presume that they are only still together because both of them still get something out of their dysfunctional and co-dependent relationship; infact their relationship throughout is and has been one of unhealthy co-dependency. Co-dependency often features in relationships where alcoholism is present. Your father is also a weak man who has enabled his wife throughout and his wife never sought the necessary help for her problems. Your mother also has an enabler in her other man and he is not helping her either by bailing her out as he has done.

The only person who can help your mother is her own self; repeated attempts at rehab are doomed to failure if she cannot fully commit herself. Doing rehab purely for someone else rarely works out well and infact its not a good reason for doing that at all. A person doing rehab has to be fully committed and do it for their own self alone. If she does not want to help her own self there is nothing that anyone can do about it.

I would grieve for the parental relationship you should have had; it is more than ok now to say enough and walk away from the two of them. They are both toxic and dysfunctional and have and will drag you down with them.

I would suggest you also talk to Al-anon about your alcoholic mother and seek their help.

NMSA

Well done for now blocking your mother. I can understand why you did reply but its not an action I would ever recommend doing with such people. She will never understand as long as she is still alive.

Your DH must not reply to her e-mail re the BBQ invite. Again as she can no longer contact you she may well try via other family members (she may well use them as flying monkeys to do her dirty work for her) or your DH.

Well done for blocking - live your life!

Pity so much of this goes on. I wonder what happens in families when the scapegoat finally goes nc as they can't blame them for everything anymore and the scapegoat isn't there to take it.

A couple of questions. Is it normal for the friends of narcs mothers to think that they are amazing and wonderful? And is it normal to feel totally unable to express how you feel about anything when in the presence of narcs mother? I suspect the answer may be yes to both questions but I am in need of a little reassurance.

I'm afraid it is yes.

They will not show their true self in front of other people. Of course then you can't say anything to these people as they will not believe you as your mother is so nice

Expressing anything will give ammunition to belittle you. Express anythign to do with their behaviour and they will deny it

Hi
Haven't posted for a while but have been NC with parents for 4 months and all is generally good

But DD starts school next week and the guilt that this time they won't be any part of this milestone is starting to trickle in ....

My parents are those that fall into the not so bad but definitely not normal category

My DCs are their only grandchildren

Can someone just reassure me please that the guilt is just part of the NC and that I'm still doing the right thing .......

Somermummy1

Yes, the guilt is just part of the NC and you are still doing the right thing by your child and you for that matter as well. It is down to you to protect your child from toxic influences like your parents. They were not good parents to you and they would not be in turn "good" grandparent figures to your child.

I repeat, you are doing the right thing by maintaining your no contact stance with your parents.

I wish your DD and you the very best of luck with starting school next week.

(BTW my parents never played any real part in any aspect of my son's school life either; my dad only collected him once and that was after I had been involved in a car accident that lunchtime).

Update from me.

DH is not going to the BBQ, or even replying to the invitation. I think actions speak louder than words and by inviting him an hour or so after she must have received my reply to her email shows she really couldn't give a fuck or doesn't understand what she's done. She mistakenly believes he is on her side. He thinks she is an idiot, to say the least. It is all massively inconvenient to her that I am NC. I imagine she wants a photograph of her with all the grandchildren or similar.

When I was trying to decide what to do about replying to the email I phoned DH at work to tell him what I was thinking and he said he was happy with whatever I did.

We had a busy but child free weekend away this weekend and had good fun. Narc mother wasn't even discussed (I certainly didn't feel the need to discuss it).

Thank you both

That was just what I needed

'Normal' service resumed ! Will keep reminding myself that the reason I'm NC is that I didn't eat humble pie after the last narc email and my DPs have made no attempt to contact me ever since

They both know where I am if they want me but are too self centred to even bother

DD (and DS) are my focus now and I can more than fill the gap their Grandparents have decided to leave behind

Onwards and Upwards

I first found this post about 3 months ago after a row with my father who yet again made me feel like crap. I had thought before my mother died that all my problems were caused by her, as he then married a lovely woman who was extremley fair minded and would challenge any bad behaviour from him.Unfortunatley she died about 8 years ago and he then went on to marry an almost carbon copy of
my mother, although she is a lot nicer to him than my mother ever was.
Anyway when i read this thread i relised that without the second wifes influence he had resorted to scapegoating me as had been the case when i was a child (just to mention that when he split with mymother i ended up on a psyciatric ward for a couple of weeks because i believed their divorce was all my fault,probably because everything else seemed to be!).
So 3 months ago i went NC and although my sister kerps pressuring me to 'sort it out' i resisted and when he sent a text to ask if they could take my 8 DD away for a week i ignored it.
I was coming to terms with it and foolishly thought that eventually there may be a way to work things out. However for the last week my DN's have been staying with them and when they got back the youngest of 7 years gleefully told my DD that her Stepmum had announced to all the other grandkids that she had no manners. She was devestated and so am I. I don't suppose that i have any questions abd I'm just looking for some support. She is a sensative child anyway and i just feel so bad for her.

Tell your dd she has lovely manners - as I am sure she has- and to ignore stepmum. We are just about to LC with all our family, the summer has just been too stressful, we have put ourselves out on numerous occasions and got nothing back whatsoever. I have a controlling stepmum too who I see as little as possible.

Tell your DD indeed that she has lovely manners and explain that she has done nothing wrong here.

I would ignore your sister (she is the flying monkey here and is certainly not acting in your interests) and block all her means of communicating with you. Remain no contact with them all; this is really their true colours.

They are punishing you for not allowing your DD to go away with them. If you had let her they would have still made comments except she would have been there without you.

My parents always called my DS naughty not just behind our back but to his face when he was being a boy. I know that can sound like me making excuses for his behaviour. He needed to be running around and I kept saying again and again to my parents that they couldn't expect him to sit for hours colouring like the girls did. He still talks about it.

After the second trip away my DC asked not to go again so I sucked up the cost of childcare and kept them at here

Thanks guys i needed the reassurance.It seems that since my DD has reached the age i can remember back to, that what i couldn't do for myself back then ie protect myself, I will now make sure I do for her. I feel so sad for that little girl that was me and i am struggling to make supportive friendships i think due to attachment issues. I'm not sure what i would do without MN!

Unfortunatley its really difficult to not see my sister as she lives next door with my DN's. She was the golden child but at least has acknowledged recently that I have not been treated well.

That is difficult then.

I would certainly be putting a stop to your DN repeating things. If he starts then tell him he will have to go back next door as we don't listen to second hand comments. If it means falling out with your DSis then so be it (next door or not) - your priority is to protect your DD

I wanted to post my own story, but don't have the time just yet. Have a turbulent relationship with my family (especially my mother). I'm in my 30's and this has had negative influences on my work relationships and my partner. I've always had a propensity towards depression and have tired medication in the past.

Finally took the initiative last year and saw a therapist which helped enormously and has improved a lot of my relationships with other people (I had some unresolved issues about my dad's apathy to arguments and my brother's special needs). I mentioned to my mum that was what I was doing now and she went mad, saying that I would just be criticizing her and what did the therapist say? Did he take your side? I explained that I wouldn't be telling her about my meetings content and blame isn't how it works. It still sent her into a rage.

So yeah that's jsut a snippet of the stress I get from her.

She's no doubt frightend that she will get found out. Good for you getting some help, i think that is one of the worse things about toxic parents, how it messes up your ability to have healthy relationships as an adult. I started to read about attachment theory which help me understand some of my issues.

my relationship with my Narsc mother has got to the point where I feel so distant from her that I don't actually feel related to her anymore. we see each other a few times a year and manage to keep a polite facade, she will ring occasionally and that is about it. she is generous in the material sense but hasn't a clue what to do with emotions. I was the scapegoat in the family and she hasn't much interest in me or my family. It all just feels rather sad and such a dreadful waste. has anyone else reached that point?

Just found this thread at a timely moment, when I'm doing alot of thinking about my family and how it affected me.... Is this a narc I'm describing in my dads behaviour?

Growing up, the whole atmosphere of the house depended on his mood

He could fly off in to a rage over any little thing, so you were constantly treading on eggshells around him. Would then totally minimse behaviour and have no awareness of how it felt witnessing it.

Will insist on paying for 'stuff' ....ie meals out etc and then want and need constant thank yous and appreciation. Gets upset if he doesn't receive what he feels is enough gratitude.

Doesn't like or deal well with criticism

Very self pitying. He has alot of age related aches and pains and never ceases to let you know about them. "Why me? What have I done to deserve this...."

Generally very loud and wanting to be centre of attention...

I could go on. I've grown up to find bonding with people very difficult and making friends has always been difficult. I find emotional and physical intimacy very uncomfortable. Chronic low self esteem and eating disorders.... I always thought I was just a bit odd but am beginning to wonder if my upbringing had a bearing on why I am this way.

Hello all,

I've followed Stately Homes on and off for ages and I think I may have posted on it once ages ago but I'm basically new. So, hello!

My mother has just gone home after 9 days staying with us. Given my upbringing (of which more later) I have NO idea why I thought this was a good move, but I wanted to talk to people who understand, so that the next time I remember and don't make the mistake of thinking she's basically a good sort, just xyz excuse. She's not, at least not to me.

Some back story? I am a mother of twins, married to a foreigner and we live in a third country. I'm an only child of a mother who had recurrent miscarriage and I had recurrent miscarriage as well, due to an inherited chromosomal abnormality. My dad died 5 years ago.
My mum fairly made our lives a misery when I was a kid. She'd go about the house in a bad mood waiting for you to do something so she could go into a massive rage and blame you for her bad mood. My dad and I used to go around on eggshells trying not to set her off and it was only when I was a teenager that I realised you couldn't avoid it because it was nothing to do with anything you'd done. She raised me to believe that I couldn't do anything for myself and made sure to buy me awful clothes for a much younger child, so I looked like an idiot and never had any friends. Nevertheless I managed to find myself a boyfriend at the age of 15 (a good sort, we stayed friends a long time, and although our relationship was probably a bit too codependant to be really healthy, it sure beat being alone) and as a result of that she just stopped talking to me for about 2 weeks, at which point I realised I had to learn all the life skills I was missing (everything from getting on the bus alone to doing my own hair to getting a part time job) so that I could leave and never ever go back.

So. What happens now is she's OK-ish on the phone (she never phones me, and when I phone her "forgets" that I can't be on the phone for 45 minutes with two 3 year olds in the house, but apart from that is pleasant enough) but then when she visits, after a day or so of being nice she'll start saying awful stuff and then me or DH will react and then she'll pretend she said nothing and for the rest of her visit we will just have a very quiet house with hardly any interaction, just her sitting in front of the TV and the rest of us largely pretending she's not there. I get the impression she just comes so she can get a few pics of the girls and some fresh news to give her cronies at the bingo and that if we could just send her photos and a rundown of the last 6 months' activities without her losing face she would much prefer it to actually visiting!

Each time she comes I think it's going to be different but it never is. And I'm thinking about going NC for a number of reasons. First of all, simply, why am I putting myself through this? Every time she comes she just poisons the atmosphere and we wait for her to go home. And then also, for a time I was thinking it was unfair of me to choose for my kids whether they have a relationship with their grandma... but why do I actually want them to have a relationship with her? She pits them against one another and compares them the whole time, and she never listens to them. So it's not like they are having the best time with her. And then also, from my own perspective, why am I trying to forge a bond between them that could mean I'm obliged to stay in contact with her because they like her?

So that's what I'm thinking - bit long, so congrats and thank you if you got this far! For those of you who went NC, did you speak to your family about it? I am thinking about gradually just making myself less available - I don't really want any big showdowns and wouldn't in the slightest want to rebuild a relationship with her, supposing she did want to change.

Cheesy sounds like my mum.

As far as physical intimacy is concerned I so wanted to be loved and wanted that I slept around when I was younger. I am so ashamed of that now and would be mortified if my DC found out.

Can;t say for sure it your upbringing is totally to blame but if it certainly can't have helped.

Expect you are like me - no point in saying you are not feeling very well as they will so much more ill.

The main thing its to learn from his behaviour - the behaviour is not normal

toomuch I am LC with mine (although she doesn't know) so can't advise on that side but certainly understand the eggshells part. She would go days without speaking when I was younger

Only ever see them for a day at a time but I am on edge for the whole time waiting for the comment.

As twins it will be bad enough that others will compare without family doing it.

Hopefully someone will be along to advise on the NC side