"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hello - I'm new to this thread, been re-directed from another . I'm trying to go nc but as i think most people will relate the thought of saying thats it makes me wonder if im doing the right thing . i have been trying to "mend" my family for a long time and ive failed . i am married with two children both under 10 1 aged 1, husband is lovely and very supportive , no in-laws . so only my family and friends.
My sister fell out with me last year and has had not one pleasant converstation with me since, despite many people saying i did nothing wrong and when i asked her she doesnt seem able to tell me what i should have done differently either . we ended up in family therapy , which although I attended i was not surprised when I was labelled by dm as trouble from before I was born , i have kept my cool but im refusing to play happy families which is infuriating them but it is the only way i can keep my cool. i have asked for their support as 1 child is recently adopted and they dont seem to get that by reacting with accusations and really horrible attacks on me they are being really selfish when i really need support.
my sister doesnt recognise that i was abused by our dm , i also believe she was too , but as our dm favoured child it was more subtle , we were both told we would have to go into care and i was prepared with a bag on a doorstep on many occassions. i was always told , "i hope you have a child half as bad as you one day and then you"ll know what you put me through" and " when you meet somone they wont want you when they know what you are really like. there was physical abuse too , but the emotional was far more lasting and i have had intensive counselling but continued with happy families until now and i just cant do it anymore....... but i am grieving the loss of my family , the family i would have liked, not the family i have got........ when i see extended families together i feel so sad , and worry for my children that they will feel we arn't a "normal family ". just to add im not an axe murderer btw , i have never been in trouble with police , have a successful career in caring services and my two children are truly lovely ( everybody agrees with that) i do think there is a lot of jealousy and i think they are angry about the adoption. my mum accused me of lying to sw , which i most definately did not , i talked about the abuse and my trouble with it as a teenager and was fully open. but what do i do know , sometimes i think i must be wrong , because thats all my mum and sister ever say ...... help x

You have some people looking for you, folks. I'm sure you'll welcome them.

I'm also new here, directed from another thread. I have not got the best sitation with Mum and Dad, athough outwardly it all appears the ideal I have never felt properly loved and accepted and am not sure either of my parents really cares what I think or feel or who I am at all.

justasking In one sentence you have just summed up exactly how I feel.

Do you have siblings? It is hard to see parents actually giving a shit about others. What about children?

It is often hard to talk to friends in real live as if it all seem rosy on the outside they don't get what the problem.

Do you live near to your parents? Sorry to be asking a loads of questions but it helps to get a better picture of your situation. I don't mean that your problems are any less important if you answer no to any of the questions.

meandyou If wouldn't matter whether you were dossing in the streets or had married Prince William you can't please them. You were that child who was vile. I could bet that your behaviour wasn't any worse than any other teenager

Concentrate on the fact you have a good life. Want they wanted was for you to fail so they could say that it wasn't a surprise that you did nothing with your life - this would prove that they were right all along. Each bit of success is an 'up yours' to them. Keep going.

You won't be part of a normal family which includes grandparents and I get that you would like that as we all would but you now have the chance to start with your children to create a normal family starting with you. Show them what is normal

sometimes i think i must be wrong , because thats all my mum and sister ever say They want you to think that and doubt yourself. You have done nothing wrong.

Not very good with words so hope I have made sense.

Hello
Someone suggested I come on here after ranting about my mum on another thread! Just writing a tiny bit of how she is down has opened up my eyes even more to realise a whole heap of issues she has and the emotionally draining impact she has on us.
Sad we have the need for a thread like this but nice to have that sound board x

Hi all, a poster here kindly directed me towards Susan Forward's Toxic Parents book, which I've started reading. Quick question - when reading this, or delving in to parental relationships generally, did you get worried that you too were a toxic parent? I'm only 3 chapters in and am worried I've already screwed my poor kids up for life. :(

Rainbow Hi! Yes sad that there is a need for the thread but god that we have this.

Have only been on here a few months myself. Didn't realize there was such a thing as narcissistic parents until a conversation with someone in real life. She was telling me about her mum and called her narcissistic. I realized she could have been describing my mum

I am still struggling with it all.

You are right it is emotionally draining

I'm sorry you're still struggling..I feel your pain I am too!
I have looked up narcissistic personalities and she is one totally..I've always thought she was just hard work and over emotional!
Funnily enough I desperately left home at an earlyish age to set up home with a man who ended up being the exact same as her x

Hi lines

It is a bit quiet on the thread recently. Can only presume it is because of the holidays. Hopefully someone can help.

I ordered 'Children Of The Self-Absorbed: A Grown-up's Guide to Getting over Narcissistic Parents' weeks ago. I can't pluck up the courage to start reading it. I know it will help but at the same time I am scared about how I will deal with it all. Did anyone else have this problem?

I do worry that I maybe toxic and not realize but I am working on the fact may we are more aware so won't be. For example my DC sit and talk with me which I would never do with my mum.

I find myself explaining why I have done something or said something so they don't it the wrong way. For example my DD didn't go to uni but my DS is looking to and so there are a lot of discussions about this uni and that uni. I remember my mum constantly rubbing in the fact I had gone. Digs and digs about it. My mum also said to my DD that she was very disappointed in her for not going to uni. I explained to my DD that I wasn't having a go at her but at the same time we couldn't not talk about it as I was also conscious that I didn't want DS to think we didn't care and weren't interested.

Sorry I've gone on a bit

Hi all. I'm just looking for a bit of support in my NC with MIL. I've been NC for 8 months now and it's been great. Dp has really supported my ban on her coming to the home (although she is starting to post things through the door, sit in her car outside)

Everyone knows what she is like but they all put up with her shit because 'that's just xxxx'

At first people didn't blame me but now it's like they are starting to get bored with the difficulty of it. Mil is actually furious with ME and is expecting an apology for daring to pull her on her shit. I've had FIL and even my family say that I should just call a truce and let by gones be by gones.

If I did that mil would be back at my home every night waiting till dp got in from work. Sometimes her mask skips and for a nano second I can see her dislike of me in her face. I don't go to family gatherings because of her apart from one this weekend and it was disastrous. DP hated it and actually thought we were going to end up fighting (?) mil and her best friend just kept walking padt our table with there noses high in the air. Dp practically legged it out when I finally suggested leaving.

So that brings me to my point. I could easily never see her again. I know she could easily go with out seeing me OR dp & dd (dd has very limited contact with her) but dp struggles with it. He thinks she is breaking her heart about the whole thing. he think she is being punished enough not having access to dd. Which BIL is starting to get arsey with me about. In which ive explained plenty of times that if she did feel like that she would have been doing her best to sorr stuff out months ago. But all I get back is 'that's just mum she will never give in' . I really like and enjoy his family and dp enjoys spending time with them too. But he has to go on his own and I feel bitter about that as I havnt done anything wrong he has now started to not go to things and I feel awful about that. I don't want either of us to miss out.

I'm still doing the right thing, right ??

'She is just like that' is no excuse for bad behaviour. Using phrases like that is an excuse for not dealing with issues. Saying that I am too chicken to deal with things.

Doing the right thing is doing what you are comfortable and happy with.

Hi, it has been a while since I've been to this thread, apologies.

Those with narc mothers, is it ever a good idea to reply to an email they send out?

I've been NC, after she assaulted me, for a couple of years or so and that has been fine for me. Family are visiting from abroad very soon and narc mother has sent me a message basically saying she can't change the past but wants me to be present for social occasions when the family are over. Oh and she'll always be my mum and loves me very much

I'll see the family in any case so don't need to go to any of narc mother's parties. Narc mother is particularly narc-y when she's been drinking, which she will be.

My reply was along the lines of... don't contact me, this is because you are violent and abusive, lying to friends and family about past events doesn't mean they didn't happen. It is in my drafts, I'm very tempted to hit send.

NMSA - I would be tempted too! But I think it's probably best to go with something tamer that still gets the message across.

Nmsa she is fishing. Don't let her reel you in. No contact means no contact. She isn't respecting your boundaries. If you reply she'll know she's got to you and that's what she wants. It's all about her. She has a fantasy life so your truth about the past will slide off her like butter in a hot pan. I'm no contact with my narc mother and psychopath father.

I've read the email she sent again and she manages to belittle my issues with her, bringing up irrelevant minor stuff from my childhood as if these are the reasons I'm angry with her. She's a total cunt.

Here's the email, edited to protect the innocent

Hi NMSA

Just wanted to tell you that I love you and miss you very much. I can't change the past - hindsight is a great thing - but I suspect that that drunken night where we both let loose - was much deeper rooted than a bottle of red wine.

You are very angry with me - and you might hate me - but at the end of the day - I am your Mum and you are my girl - I can't change the past - and can't change buying you brown shoes, or feeding you Findus food (sorry I can't remember this), or not letting you have ballet lessons.

Lots of times when I was in your house I could see you couldn't be bothered with me - but I was scared to broach the subject as I knew it would end up in an argument and I might not see my beloved grandchildren - and heh oh - it has happened anyway.

(NMSA DB) and (NMSA DSIL) will be here soon - and there are lots of social events surrounding them. It would be great to get all the family together as I'm organising a ladies day, bbq etc - and it won't be the same without you there.

I've invited (NMSA SIL's BIL) and (NMSA SIL's DSis) up for the weekend of the 11th - and (NMSA SIL's BFF) is staying here with (NMSA SIL's BFF's DS) and maybe her boyfriend - we are having a ladies day at the (local pub) on Saturday 12th and a BBQ on 13th. Really hoping you'll come - because (NMSA DSIL) and (NMSA DB) want you to be part of everything, as do I.

If you can't forgive me - I totally respect that - but until the day I die I will love you with all my heart - whether or not it is reciprocated or not, and regret that you are not part of it - because you are my beautiful girl.

Love Mum

xxx

My reply in my drafts is:

"Seriously, don't contact me again. My "issues" are that you were frequently abusive to me, and (NMSA DH), for years, especially with drink. Naturally, I couldn't be bothered with you. Anyone else would have told you to fuck off well before I did. Lying to family/friends about things you have said and done doesn't mean they didn't happen. You violently assaulted me in my home leaving me with bruises to the side of my head. In hindsight I should have called the police"

I'm raging. She BCC'd my DH so I suspect she BCC'd my 2 DBs and SIL as a minimum.

She wants you there so she it looks like everything is rosy with her. Look at what a perfect family we are. It's all about how she will look.

If you are going to see the others anyway no need to go.

And no need to even respond to the e-mail

NMSA

Block her email address as of now so you do not have to read any more such drivel from her.

Do not reply to your mother's e-mail under any circumstances (much as you would like to; this is one argument you will simply not win). This is hoovering behaviour on her part and she simply wants to draw you back into her dysfunctional world. That e-mail was never sent out of any real concern for you or your wellbeing; it was simply sent to draw you back in. Narcissists are well known for carrying out such behaviour.

Narcissists hoover because it’s their way of making sure you stay sucked into their game, and remain a source of their Narcissistic supply. Keep in mind that while they were giving you the silent treatment before, they were busy lining up someone else–generally a new girlfriend/partner. They haven’t returned to you because they care, or because they love you. They are incapable of love. Most likely they have returned because things didn’t work out with whomever they had replaced you with, and they are looking to feed off you some more. It’s very important that you realize that a “relationship” with a Narcissist is nothing more than a game–their game, and it’s only over when they decide it’s over. This is why you make take back a Narcissist during one of their hoover attempts, only to be discarded by them a few weeks later.

You are no contact for good reason; maintain that. Replying at all will only give her the green light to bother you even more. It is simply not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

Hi everyone,

I am posting on my partners username as i dont have one myself, and i have only seen this website a handful of times, so the only reason I am posting is with the help of my partner.

Not sure where to start so I will start with the basics. I am currently 23, been with my partner for almost 5 years and i currently live on my own. Recently I have been put on anti-depressents, and I rarely sleep at the moment as well. This has all basically stemmed from my toxic parents (or so I believe)

It all started when I was about 3/4 years old. I dont remember anything at this point but in the next few years I noticed my mum had been taking me and my older brother out with another gentlemen for tea and things. This went further with trips to the park, zoo's etc. This all stopped when my dad found out about it. At the time I did not realise my mum had been having an affair (the first of 2) with this man nor did I know why. He was a lovely man, very caring and very kind, but we stopped having contact when i was about 8. After this everything changed, my dad started beating me and my older brother, although I did not bear the brunt of it like my older brother did. At this point my mum had been an alcoholic for about 3 years, although again I was not aware at the time. One day when I was 11, I stood up to my dad and said "if you hit me, i will hit you back" to which the physical abuse stopped, it then became emotional.

My dad also abused my mum horribly, this ranged from strangling her to attempting to cut her with a knife. One memory that sticks out is I was 7 and my and my brother were on our driveway at 11 at night, because my mum said we must wait out here while she argued with my dad. She came running out hysterically crying with cuts to her wrists, and to this day i dont know if it was self inflicted or my dad. But I did see my dad physically and emotionally abuse my mum from a young age. It stopped when my mum met this new bloke, as she spent alot of her time with him and my brother had got to the point where he was standing up for my mum.

From the ages of 11-16 it was just a same routine, I was still scared of my dad because my brother and dad used to beat the s* out of eachother as they just did not get along. My mum started seeing this other bloke , so everything again changed and my dad became very estranged. He took it out on me and my brother when my mum was not there, saying things like it was our fault my mums ill and we are horrible kids. There was one specific time when I was 18 and I had just self harmed, i was crying and said to my dad i feel very down and want some support, to which his reponse was "grow up, theres nothing wrong with you" when he even suffered from depression and was on medicine for it. So from about 11-18/19 my mum was there about once a week, and when she was, she was just very drunk all the time so I could not even discuss anything with her. Between these years my dad started hiding things and taking stuff away from us, it started with the keyboard for the PC (so me and my brother could not use it) so the TV remote, hiding cloths in the garage and locking it up, hiding chocolate and food away and eventually we were not aloud to go to the freezer to make a meal for ourselves (as my mum only cooked about once a week due to seeing this other bloke). He would also make remarks about us, about our jobs, our mum, everything. Between 18-20 I had some major fights with my dad, hitting, punching and screaming. I had to move out, which I did and have been living on my own ever since.

Theres alot more to my parents, but now to my current situation. My nan used to look after me and my brother when we were younger, and she lived a few streets away so was always available. She was diagnosed with dementure when I was about 13 so it started going downhill there. She sadly passed away last year, but since then things have become complicated. I have been trying to support my dad who was diagnosed with prostate cancer in January this year. My mum went into rehab for her drinking a month or 2 ago and sadly relapsed when she came out. She was admitted again a few days ago, but blames me for why she has to go again.

long storey short, my mum never supported me and neither did my dad, my only true family member passed away last year, and although me and my brother are very close, it still does not make up for the way we were treated, and we have tried talking with our parents, to which you can assume their response was negative. My dad blamed me for my mums drinking problem, and she was diagnosed with Bi-Polar last year which again is my fault. My mum just does not want to help herself, and my nan who was my absolute rock has gone from this world, so im struggling at the moment, i just thought it might be nice to get some advice and/or opinions of whats happened. I am doing better in myself, I have my driving test soon and I have been referred for CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) to help with my moods etc.

My mum and dad are technically still married to, and my mums been seeing this bloke for about 10/11 years now, amd my dad just turns a blind eye. This bloke my mum is seeing has paid loads of monety for this rehab, only for her to compulsively lie her way out of it. I want to scream at my mum (who i used to be very close with) and say you were never there for me, you did not protect me, you did not see me through school (i did average in school, but my parents were not interested in parents evenings etc, never met any teachers nor helped me with my studies), you did not make me feel like my home was my home, you never protected me from my dad and you left me and my brother from a very young age to deal with my dad! but she is ill herself, so i am stuck between feeling down about the whole thing myself and keeping it all im, to exploding and telling both my parents what i really think of them and why they are "toxic" to my life. My brother is also suffering at the moment, although he refuses to seek help for his mood, he usually is okay. I just keep going in circles, i want my mum back again and i hate my dad with so much for what hes done to me and my brother and mum.

Thank you all for reading, its my first time posting anything, and again its my lovely girlfriends account im posting on!

Thanks for the replies. I've blocked her email now. Er, and I also sent my reply, with a couple of edits. I made an addition that we didn't not "both let loose" followed by the bit about her assaulting me.

I won't see any responses, but an hour later she sent my DH an invitation to the BBQ.

Sorry littleblueone I'll read your message now.

LittleBlue I'm so sorry you have been through such a horrendous time.

You know that you are not responsible for your mum's drinking, right? Nor are you responsible for the violence that your father doled out.

Can I suggest you look into Al-Anon? They provide support for family and loved ones of alcoholics. I think you might find them very helpful.

Have you read any of the books listed on the opening post of the thread?

It seems like you are at a real tipping point in your life where you can decide whether to put yourself first and walk away from these truly toxic and abusive people. But I know that can feel very frightening.

NMSA I understand your urge to reply, I would have felt the same. Well done on blocking her. Can't believe she then invited your DH. These people.

Oh little blue, there's a lot to unravel there but it is good that you got it all down and posted.

I'm no expert and I've relied heavily on the fabulous, fabulous people in Statelyhomes in the past. The best thing about here is no-one needs you to justify your feelings.

We are lead to believe our own parents are the best things for us, when, if you read this thread and the others like it, they are often quite the opposite.

My first thoughts are that you cannot change other people and you'll only hurt yourself further by trying. I wish you well. Good for you for taking the first steps on here by posting.

Well done on blocking her

TBF I actually thought I'd done it a couple of years back