"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I would also like to extend a welcome to you Disappointed.

The link below from Lightshouse has some good information on how to go no contact.

www.lightshouse.org/how-to-go-no-contact.html#axzz3fU1bPBCR

You certainly need to ignore your mother (I use that term advisedly because she's never been any sort of decent mother to you) along with the other flying monkeys who will likely also come out of the woodwork to hassle you about not being in touch with your mother. You may well need to be no contact with them too, they are only acting in their own self interest here and certainly not in yours.

(I will be on holiday now for the next couple of weeks).

It's me here under a very slightly different name when I made this NC for the stately homes thread I was going to put a number there and got distracted and saved, so that random zero annoyed me every time I posted. So Loveheart0 is no more

disappointed I normally don't push people to go NC, always thinking if you're not ready there can sometimes be a way of manageable low contact, but after reading your post oh my god, please please protect yourself and your little boy. I'm so sorry you might have to be without a mother but please know she was never what a mother should be anyway. And you may damage relationships with other members of your family (rather, they will damage the relationship with their reactions - this isn't on you) but from your post they don't seem to be worth the payoff for saving.

What struck me in your post is your shock that she might have an issue throwing your son out of his home - she had no problem doing the same to you repeatedly. You were a child. Please take all the validation you need from this thread and use us for support to protect yourself. We're here, we believe you, and we really care.

attila enjoy your holiday!

NC of course standing for name change there, not no contact I confused myself reading it back

Thanks Attila I've just gone on to that website (slow day at work) and I'm reading the list of 'Things Toxic Parents Do'. Ticking a lot of boxes.

What are flying monkeys?

Loveheartoh - took me a minute to understand you meant name change! Thank you for your post. I feel really weird to hear people agree or comment on how awful my Mum's behaviour is. All my life I've heard "yes but she did it for x reason' 'she didn't mean it' 'you know how she is'. No one ever calls her out on it. When I told my sister that she had threatened to kick us out she didn't even say much. 'I don't know what to say/she just says things in anger'. Like it's all okay.

The flying monkeys may be your neighbour, church members, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandmother, grandfather, nieces, nephews, etc. These people do the narcissist's dirty work and often pour their own abuse on the scapegoat.

She has just called to say she'll be about two hours late... She has to head to the shop and then the post office for something. She invited me to come with her and I said no because it was a serious conversation I didn't want to have at the post office. But I was shaken and felt like I'd had a punch in the stomach. I suppose I'm asking AIBU ... Aibu to text her now and explain that I think we should cancel after all as I don't understand her priorities, send a final, clear NC email and meet dp from work while it's still early and go for a walk by the sea or something? I don't know if this is the final straw or if I'm clutching at straws to get out of it...

Were you supposed to be meeting her to tell her you're going no contact?

No, let her go ahead and jerk you around this one last time, but note where her priorities lie.

I think you know how this conversation is going to go Loveheart :( and I think you know how any future relationship with her would go, if you stay in contact. Miracles do happen, moons are occasionally blue, but not often.

But I think this conversation with her is important for your sake. To say what you need to. To observe her reactions and how she handles what she has to say.

I considered that Meerka but then I thought fuck it. This is the last reaction I needed to see to make it all fall into place. I've sent a text and written an email explaining everything but I don't really care if she understands or not anymore. Anger, finally!

Disappointed we've been nc for about four months on her instigation but she's been contacting me every two weeks to see if we can meet up and talk. I've agreed every time but she's ignored my reply/rearranged/cancelled/not shown up about five or six times now.

fair enough, a relief to make the decision of No More I imagine :)

feels like someones just lifted a car off my chest!

Bloody hell. I imagine that is just to show you she can still exert control over your life. Did you tell her not to bother coming?

yep disappointed. i just said i'm sorry she couldn't make it but I was going to head out rather than wait for her as i didn't understand her priorities.

well done LH
It takes a lot of courage to hit the send button!
Is she likely to reply? Be sure, not to leave yourself open to an abusive, defensive backlash.

she's very likely to reply. I've sent the initial text, turned my phone off, and put it upstairs. then typed out the long email (which i'd already planned in bullet points like meerka suggested to me a while ago so that my emotions or not wanting to hurt her dont get in the way. Past-LH looking out for Present-LH!) in which I re-explained how her actions have hurt me and explained that if she can't acknowledge this and work on a better relationship I need to stay away, and I sent that. I've muted emails from her too so that I can go back and read her reply when I feel up to it (probably tomorrow) rather than get a notification - like the olden days

I'm feeling good. Granted I probably won't when I face the music and switch my phone back on but that doesn't have to happen til I say so.

That you for the lovely handholding everyone. I know it only led up to me cancelling but I would have waiting in the house for two hours just to be screamed at for another two hours just to 'prove' to myself that she was abusive if it wasn't for all of you. The second she called and told me that it was important she got to the post office I thought 'the stately homes people wouldn't let me put up with this' - and similarly, I would hate to let some of you put up with it. So thank you thank you. You all deserve the most lovely weekend

I'm actually smiling reading your last post and feel proud of you. Is that weird? I don't know, I guess it's just encouraging and a little fist-pumpy to see 'one of us' do, what has always seemed to be, a really scary thing. You've set your boundaries and are doing things on your terms, deciding when you'll see any reply and such. Taking yourself back.
Well done!
Have a lovely afternoon by the sea

Thank you trib.

Hello all.

OH Springy please concentrate all your energies on getting better. One day they may have a revelatory moment and maybe not. I suspect you would be better to not get in touch for now. Left alone and growing into mature adults they may have what most normal people have, some circumstance that makes them look again at an occurrence from their past that never quite made sense. It may be a newly acquired friend that points out the flaws in the thinking of their newly chosen 'family' or somesuch but, for now and until you are well (and maybe not even then) it would be wise to concentrate on your current and more immediate battle.

oh love, concentrate on you and the lovely people in your life, then whether it is long or far too short, you will not be wasting energy on something that might not change, and you are giving yourself the best chance to be around when/if it does change.

I think early twenties/twenties is still redeemable and they have still got time to grow up and learn the truth.

take care of yourself darling.

Thanks chaps [can I say chaps LOL]

Well, its the big c and I told them bcs their dad died suddenly (when all this hideous trouble started, which my poisonous family capitalised on) and of course I don't know how this is going to end up. They needed to know.

Since getting the dx the stuff with the kids has taken a back seat. Just before the dx I caught myself having suicidal thoughts - the pain of losing them has been immense. I felt I was going down. Then I got the dx and things changed. I refuse to die of a broken heart.

I once heard on the radio [trigger warning] a woman talking about her 15yo son's disappearance 10 years before - never found, don't know what happened. She said it was a huge black crater in her life she had to be careful to stay away from, to not go near the edge. I remember exactly where I was in the car when I heard it - it had a big impact on me (as it would anyone, I imagine).

So I am stepping back from my crater. I suppose hope kept me hanging around the edge - ultimately looking into the abyss. I have to stop looking, to stop actively hoping. I can't entirely stop hoping (it is too unbearable to think I will never get them back) but I will consciously stop actively hoping iyswim. I have to live and it was killing me. It's all change now. My health - actually, my survival - has taken the top slot.

I need to get my head around cutting them out of this crisis entirely. Ie how to do it. Because of the abuse since telling them about dx I have already told them they have to step back but I assumed there would be tenuous contact eg updates. Maybe not even that then. I don't think at this point I will make an announcement... but I may. It's up to me!

Steam off consciousness stuff there, sorry. Tired now!

Steam? Pssshhh

I have followed here from your first thread springydaffs because I know how wonderful and string you were before this diagnosis.

Springy, you need to unpick this period of your life and put them into bite-size chunks. Dealing with the Big C is a big chunk on its own and that must be your first (and if necessary, your ONLY) priority. The road from prognosis, through treatment and to recovery only stands a chance when you are entirely selfish. You will need to do lots of rest periods, and to rest properly you must NOT be worrying and fitful.

I think you made contact with your children because you hoped they would step up to the plate and show you the love and support you need and deserve. But when your children have been subjected to lies and deceit from 3rd parties, it isn't always possible for them to have a Eureka moment. They will have divided loyalties, they feel very confused.

For now, you have to love yourself first. Then you have to love your children enough to let them go. Allow your children to get on with their lives that they have now chosen and don't worry about their poor decision making.

Have you got other RL support from friends? If so, make THEM your family.

My DH died without his son reconciling because of the toxic, erroneous lies his mother told all 3 children. I promise you, my DH died satisfied that his children were informed and then it was THEIR choice. It did not affect his strength to meet his chemo and radiotherapy head on. His good days were no less joyous just because his children didn't text or ask for an update.

It really is a case of putting yourself first and reaching ACCEPTANCE about the situation with the children. You have an uphill battle ahead of you so that you can see the Springydaffodils next Easter, and all the Easters thereafter.

Take care. Love and blessings. SW