"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

It is hard, I find myself making excuses for them - I know my mother herself was the product of poor parenting - my father possibly was too as I know my GP's were always too busy working to spend much time with my father. I know he struggles with feelings of abandonment too as he told me this when we were arguing a few weeks ago.

I keep minimising the things they did, was it all that bad? I can remember happy times too - Christmas was always lovely until my mother started drinking, its all such a long time ago but I can remember so many scary times, crying myself to sleep, not knowing how things were going to be when you got home from school, that constant knot of anxiety in my stomach when I knew my mother had been drinking. Knowing I had to tiptoe on eggshells around her or my father would get annoyed if we wound her up etc everything was always my fault - the feeling of needing to be the adult in the house as I was exposed to so many of their problems (financial, marriage, work etc) I still feel the need to control people now!

Still, its not on though - I recognise the damage it does when you dont break the cycle. I have to consciously stop and reword things I say to my DC's, I am always aware of my reaction to things as I'm ultra scared of being anything like my mother was. I want my children to come in from school to a happy household, safe and secure in the knowledge their parents love them unconditionally.

My father and I stayed close through all the years of my mothers alcoholism despite me knowing deep down he did nothing to help us when we were kids and he enabled her. Despite my brother and I rallying around my father when my mother died its all been thrown back in our faces now - he doesn't need us he says. I just cannot understand how you can do this to your kids - at any age. I just hope I stop caring soon as its killing me.

It was only when I had my dd that I began to think about my parents and how they treated me so bad and that i actually felt unloved I can't understand it? I NEVER want my children to feel that, my dd has never cried herself to sleep ( as far as I know!) Were as most nights I cried myself to sleep, it would break my heart if I knew that she felt unloved by me, I'm already worrying about how having a new baby brother or sister will affect her and what we can do to make sure she doesn't feel left out. Is that not normal wanting your child to be happy and secure?

Hello

Can I ask how you have explained NC to DCs?

I have been NC since Easter and am actually feeling fine about it

DPs do not live close by and it is not unusual for us to go sometime without seeing them but DCs would normally speak regularly with them on the phone and dS normally goes to stay for a week in the school summer holidays

For context. I fall into the 'not that bad' category. No actual abuse but have come to realise that DM has narc tendencies - highlighted by the fact that NC has come following shouty email from her which this time I simply didn't rise to. And she's not even bothered since. DCs are 4 and 7 and their only grandchildren. I am their only child.

The Guilt tells me that both my parents and my children are missing out

My sensible side tells me that although it is sometimes hard we will all be better off in the long run

Therehave been no questions at all yet from the DCs.

I have been careful not to discuss the situation in front of them

But it is now surely only a matter of time

I do not want to lie to them but also do not want to over burden them with concerns that they should not have in their care free childhood days!

Does anyone have any tips ?

Can I ask how you have explained NC to DCs?

You won't ruin their carefree childhood by giving them careful, age-appropriate information. Part of what happens in childhood is learning about relationships, from you - so try to see it as part of teaching them to live in the world, not as shattering their innocence. They will meet people who are toxic or are bullies during their childhood, I'm sure. What's important is that they understand that those people are wrong.

Don't say things that could make them worry you'll go NC with them, eg x wasn't kind to me. (Similar to not explaining death using sleep analogies.) You don't want them thinking you'll stop talking to them if they aren't kind!

I haven't been in this position yet but I know it wasn't helpful when my mum made excuses (he's just tired, etc). I am full of info on what not to do, but not on what to do, is the problem...

Somermummy1

This excerpt may prove helpful to you:-

"You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your child that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt.

If you have another set of grandparents in the picture then focus on them. It is rare that both sets of grandparents are nasty. Emphasize to your children how much we enjoy being around grandma and grandpa so-and-so (the decent and loving grandparents). Cultivate your children's relationship with the decent, loving grandparents. Teach your children to be grateful for the decent, loving grandparents. Gratitude is a highly effective antidote to loss. Focus them on what they have, not what they don't have. Model that attitude of gratitude.

You will find that the children will eventually stop mentioning the loss of the narcissist grandparent if you are not bringing it up. If you are talking about your Nparent in the hearing of your children then you are inviting them to keep talking about it, too. I can not over-emphasize the need for your explanation to a younger child to be calm, pragmatic, measured and short. Long explanations make you look defensive which will tend to peak the interest of the child and prompt him to push the issue. You can gauge what is appropriate information depending on the age of the child. If the child is older and has experienced or witnessed the Ngrandparent's nastiness in action then you can say more.

Young children are not known for their long attention spans. This works in your favour. With younger children you have the advantage of distraction. It is easy enough to get the child's mind off onto another track. Every parent has done the distraction routine at one time or another. "Mommy, I want to see NastyGram today!" "Honey, we aren't going to see NastyGram today because we get to go to the park and eat ice cream." (Make up fun time on the spot if necessary for this distraction.) "Yay!!" says the kid and off we go. Subject changed, kid distracted. In time, NastyGram will fade from memory. Any bonding that may have occurred will dissipate in the process of time.

Remember, you are the parent. You're older and therefore more experienced which is the point of being the parent. The child is dependent on your good sense and protective wisdom. You're smarter than your child; use that to your advantage (such as using the distraction method). You are the final authority. This is not a negotiable issue. Kidlet doesn't get to decide on this one because they lack the understanding, wisdom, experience and good sense that, hopefully, you have. So don't look like you're unsure or open to quibble. You'll undermine yourself if you look anything but firm and resolved on it. Use your advantages as parent to smooth the effects of the cut-off. Over time this will all quiet down. Kids tend to accept what is. It will happen more quickly if you follow the above advice.

Most of all, do not operate from a fearful mindset. Don't be afraid of your children's possible, or actual, reactions. Don't be afraid that you are depriving them of something important by cutting off a set of grandparents. You are only "depriving" them of bad things. Reassure yourself with that truth. Family is not everything. Blood is not binding. You are escaping the Mob Family. What should connect us is how we treat each other with love and respect. This is always a good lesson to teach our little ones. If any part of you is unsure of your decision then, for Pete's sake, don't show it. Your resoluteness will go a long way toward reassuring your children that you are acting in everyone's best interest. If your children know that you love them, they are going to feel reassured that this decision is also based in your love for them. They will find an added sense of security to know that you, as their parent, are willing to protect them even at the cost of your relationship with your own parent(s). Rather than being fearful, see the plentiful opportunities in this. You are protecting your children from someone whom you've experienced as being abusive; you are reassuring your children that you are in charge and are watchful for their best interests (creates deep sense of security); you can teach healthy family values which include that family doesn't get a pass for abusive behaviour; you can strengthen and reinforce the healthy relationships in your extended family. Kids are less likely to feel like there is a void in their life if you fill it with good things.

Cutting off from your narcissist parent is a good thing. No need to act otherwise. Your children will sense it is a good thing by how you behave. Model how you want them to respond and it is likely they will imitate. Don't be afraid of their questions. Kids are amazingly resilient and well-equipped to handle truth. Parents are supposed to protect their progeny. If your child doesn't agree with how you go about that don't worry. They will often disagree with your decisions for their best interests. Nothing new there. It is your job as parent to make the tough decisions. If you know it is the right decision then proceed with confidence. Showing confidence is a quality of leadership. As a parent you are supposed to be a leader. Lead...and they will likely follow".

I would add: don't be afraid of upsetting your kids by explaining. It's okay to do that so long as you help them through it.

It has always been normal to go months without seeing my parents so it is normal for my DC. Never had to deal with the why we haven't seen the grandparents for ages.

My DC make a joke out of who's the favourite (neither of then of course). One will say 'if I do this will I go to the top of the list? And then the other will say 'probably not' and then they both laugh.

They don't seen to care and I have spoken to them about it. They found it difficult to understand when they were younger that their wishes didn't come into it - the world revolved around someone else. After the second time they stayed and they had been taken away on holiday but they never got to do a couple of things I stopped sending them.

I think we more than parents raised in 'happy' families are aware of what not to do So true

toxic can you just not engage with her? Or just say something firm and polite, a statement like :"I'm not discussing this, can we talk about something else?". You are perfectly within your rights to put a boundary down with her and if she crosses it, maybe you need to consider going LC with her too.

Hello all, i'm adding myself to this thread. I'm pretty far along my journey with my toxic parents and in a good place with it - mostly - but thought I'd come by and add my support.

Thank you thank you thank you

Bizarrely box of gifts for DCs arrived from DPs today. I must have had a sixth sense.

Questions must now be imminent

Your words will be very helpful sooner than anticipated!

Somermommy1

Get rid of the box of "gifts" for your children; these were never sent by their grandparents without any unwritten conditions attached to them. They are simply trying to buy your childrens affections. This is also one of the many tactics such parents try.

You are no contact with them for good reason; that needs to be maintained and that also includes no acknowledgement of any "gifts".

You do not have to take part in any family photoshoot (sounds awful and naff anyway apart from anything else).

Ignore all attempts made by sister to hoover you back in; this is all designed to pull you back into her dysfunctional world.

Who cares what your family of origin think; you would be the bad person no matter what anyway. They are the dysfunctional ones here, they need you to hang their own dysfunctions on.

The fact you are breathing is enough to make you a bad person so wouldn't worry about their reaction.

AS someone (who is overweight and also hates her photo being taken) who had to endure a photo session for parents a couple of years ago I don;t blame you. When I saw the CD most of the photos were of my sister's family and I had paid towards that.

To make matters worse my mum printed a photo (a not particularly good print) and out it in a frame for us.

Turn the tables on her and say if she was any kind of sister she wouldn't have booked something she knew you would be uncomfortable with

Toxicsurvival,

If you do not at all engage you then do not give her what she wants; she wants you to contact her because she will then see this as a reward (and harass you even more). She cannot play if you do not pick the rope up.

Your sister's current treatment of you could be construed as harassment; she is not sending these messages out of any concern for you and I would also think she is a narcissist in terms of personality. If she persists I would have no hesitation in blocking her number (I would certainly do that) and calling the police.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours is one of scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

You don't have to explain. Indeed I think that, with siblings, it's a case of "if you have to ask you'll never know" in a way. My brother is king of the flying monkeys so I'm not willing to explain in case it is used against me.