"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Testing a name change...

Autumn I just wanted to say, use the fact that your dcs don't want to move as motivation, even if that sounds horrible. Don't let the mindset that's all around you continue to infect them, by overhearing abuse and thinking 'it's not that bad'. Obviously they're only children now so don't know any better, but I mean as they grow up. Look forward to a time where you and your grown dcs can say 'I can't believe they all think like that', which won't happen if they live like this. You will bring up dcs who know that you should be treated with love and kindness and respect, especially by members of your own family (key for partners and spouses when they're older). Be strong and trust yourself

Ladies is it ok to jump in with a question?

I have been no contact with a sister for 2 years. She has found opportunities to stick the knife in to me many times over the years, but I finally drew a line and cut her off. She has tried to hoover me back on a handful of occasions. This morning I received a text to say that her dog had died. This will probably sound ridiculous to some of you, but I know this will be devastating for her as she is very fond of her dogs.

I suspect ignoring the text is what I should do, but I feel like a bitch for doing so. Should I send condolences or continue to ignore? I do not want to reinstate a relationship with her as she tried (and failed) to cause major problems in my marriage, but it seems so cold to just ignore.

I'm unsure what to do, so thought I would ask you wise ladies. I have lurked on here for ages, but not posted as my stuff is so trivial compared to some of the horrors that others on here have had to endure on here. Many thanks.

I'm sure you'll be told to just ignore as that's probably the best thing to do... I know it's incredibly hard though. When a relative of my dad died, I sent a text saying 'I'm really sorry about (x)' and that was all. I did this knowing for certain that I would not text him or reply to any further messages, and I could also kind of gauge his reaction and assume he wouldn't Hoover me back in based on the recent past. It was a compromise for my own peace of mind. However you know your sister and you know if she won't let it settle and if that will make things hard for you, if you think that's the case then you're not being heartless by not replying. Do what you need to do to look after yourself whatever that may be. It's horrible that her dog died, but I'm sure she can find support elsewhere.

Whocansay I don't think it's ridiculous as I love animals. Anyway... Hoovering and real loss/ emergencies/ whatever are not mutually exclusive. I think you might want to consider why you want to respond. Is it to prove to yourself/ her and/or your parents inside your head that you aren't cold and heartless? Is it to prove you aren't the bad one?

If you really need to reply, I think "I'm really sorry about x" is the perfect response.

Whocansay

What your sister is doing here is hoovering behaviour. Its certainly not done in your interests at all. You're a kind person and this type of news does pull (you're an animal lover as well and she knows this).

I would not respond at all to such a text from your sister, even something as seemingly innocuous as, "sorry to hear about your dog". Any response from you will cease the no contact and open the door for her to potentially bother you even more. Such people want you to contact them, they see it as a reward.

Attempts to pull you back into a toxic relationship are not valid expressions of caring and concern — they are attempts to regain control over your behaviour. Beware — hoovering attempts are often disguised as caring, loneliness, hurt, desperation, fear, illness, and other things designed to play on your sympathies and pull you back. Abusers know that pulling on heartstrings works very well. (In the case of BPD, it may be simply out-of-control emotions and fear of abandonment more than an attempt to control you per se; however you will likely still feel that you are not being allowed to end a relationship you no longer want).

Some toxic people may still make the occasional attempt on holidays, anniversaries of events, etc. Don’t bite the bait. Simply ignore any attempts.

You also have no evidence to suggest that this person will now cease putting the knife into you. Such people do not change.

Whocansay,

re your comment:-
"I'm unsure what to do, so thought I would ask you wise ladies. I have lurked on here for ages, but not posted as my stuff is so trivial compared to some of the horrors that others on here have had to endure on here".

Many people who post here initially write the above or along similar lines and its simply not true.

From the initial post of this thread:-

"One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth".

Thank you, ladies. I do feel very sad about the dog and I know she will be too. I suppose part of me would like a relationship with my sister, but I know it will never be a happy, loving one. I really envy people with close families and I just hope my own little family can be happy and close. I will ignore the text. I do feel pretty shitty about it though.

Buttonmoonboots I've been trying to think of how to respond to your question. I honestly am not sure why I feel the urge to respond. If it was a friend I wouldn't hesitate to make real contact either by phone or in person and offer help and support. In my family I will always be the bad one. In their minds I will always be the selfish one. I suppose I am now being selfish in that I've chosen to put myself first and cut her off. But I don't think I need their validation any longer.

AttilaTheMeerkat your words are really kind and have made me a bit teary! I suppose I was subject to various levels and types of 'abuse', but never thought of it in those terms a the time. I just accepted that's how things were. I know she won't change. In fact until relatively recently, I never realized how much she hated me. I can't let her back in my life.

I think you want to respond because that is a normal kind reaction and also because you fear proving them right. You do not need to respond, however.

Toxicsurvival I think exploding at toxic people never gets the result you want and tends to heap more hurt on. Can you explode elsewhere?

I normally just lurk on here, but I'm having a few bad days at the moment. Does anyone else just sometimes want to give up and curl up under the duvet twenty years on? I felt bloody shit throughout my teenage years thanks to a combination of bad parenting - bullying aggressive dad who liked to throw things and once threw a family dog, oddly enough in light of the posts above, a mother who plain never liked me, probably as a scapegoating thing - sexual harassment on the streets, mild bullying from local kids, not fitting in at school, in order of importance. I tried to put it all away and get on, as best you can continually fighting with low self esteem, and I have my own family now. But since not long after my kids were born I just can't seem to stop going over and over events of 20 years ago. I have been for a few months now. I now see it as parenting failure and all the rest of it rather than having the 'it's all me being weak' tangles in my head: but does anyone ever stop having bad days or weeks?

It doesn't help that there was a teacher who had her eye on me for a long time before she finally got fed up with me. I regret not going to her more than anything else, oddly enough!

Toxic Do rant away on here.

NoTech If it's not normal to still feel like that after 20 years then I am not normal either. I mentioned it in a previous thread that my mother said to me when I said I was pregnant 'why do you want to waste your life havign children and if she had her time again she wouldn't have had children' Twenty years later this still hurts. Obviously there have been hurtful actions/comments before that and since.

Are you have problems in other parts of your life which is making this harder to deal with? I ask as I am extremely stressed at work and it makes it impossible for me deal with anything outside of work even things that happened so long ago.

Whatever happened was not your fault and you can see any behaviour is not normal so you will not be repeating it with your children

Toxic Lots of favouritism in my family and it most definitely does not involve me. Even my DC are now sick of listening

Hi everyone,
I sort of slipped up yesterday with my DM, I contacted her and asked did she want to go furniture shopping, I started to feel guilty for going lc with her and stupidly started thinking that maybe she wasn't that bad that she just went along with that man who is my father and maybe I should feel sorry for her etc
Anyway big mistake I think cos I'm pregnant I let my hormones get in the way and I guess I just want a mother, my mil has been so good to me and visiting and asking how I'm feeling etc that I convinced myself that maybe I'm not giving dm a chance to ask how I am and show she cares because of lc, she tried to get a few snippets of information off me like what my doctor was like and midwives etc she is just gathering information to have when say a neighbour or a member of our extended family asks how I am. The rest of the time she just talked about my db's and their families ( the favourites!!)

It's never ever going to change I have to keep telling myself that and stop letting test pesky hormones convince me otherwise
As a mother of one and another on the way I just can't comprehend it.. She let my father bully me and didn't stand up for me when he just one day stopped talking to me, She wasn't afraid of him he wasn't beating her or verbally abusing her, I think she just wanted to keep him happy, it's not just me the same happened with my younger brother again df just ignored him one day and that was it ( as I said before myself and db were a bit wild but that was it ) he has not spoken to me or my db in 15 years or more!! He just pretends we are not there.
So basically df stopped talking to us and DM and our other siblings all just jumped on the bandwagon and we became the scapegoats and the outcasts.. its just fucked up!!!!

I think a few of my mother's friends have guessed over the years, one woman who goes shopping with DM is the woman who picks out my Christmas presents ( I know this because dm always tells me) same with birthday too ha ha if I get a present!! And same woman's husband has often helped me with my car teaching me to check for oil etc especially when I was young single mother learning to drive wasn't as If I had a father to do it
I always felt my grandmother and aunts noticed things too growing up as I remember as a child telling my aunt how my 2 brothers were treated different.

I should look at the positive side though The outcome of this is I grew up to become independent and able to do my own thing, it has had a impact on a few of my relationships over the years I remember a ex partner telling me that I have to learn to accept help. I never let a relationship get too far I only settled down in last few years!!I didn't want to let myself get used to having a man around because i was so afraid he would walk out? This definality had a impact on the relationship with my dd's dad too. When I met my dh and we eventually moved in together he used to laugh at how I would do all the manly chores it took me a long time to realise I had someone now to help me, I would still be putting out bins and dragging in coal for open fire it would never enter my head to ask him, I eventually coped on though
My dm has never paid a bill in her life her wages go to df and he sorts everything it's not as if he is controlling her it's way she wants it he sorts out everything to do with her car etc too I should laugh though he does the same for the two golden boys too they are married men in their 30s and their father still goes to the bank to pay off their student loans ( the give him the money but he has always done this for them) he sorts out services for their cars and cuts their lawns the list is endless

Toxic, The username comes from chris rea "the road to hell"... I have a vague interest in politics and environmental affairs. Glad you like it! You're right, I do 'this too shall pass' as well. I feel better today.

Thank you for the reassurance, Theymakemefeel. The effect on my kids is my major concern, you're both sharp! I am a bit stressed at the moment following a move to a new area and they have had a bit of fallout. I've had to explain to my 4 yr old that mummy sometimes feels sad and then gets cross, that this isn't right and I'm trying not to do it. I used to have some self-restraint, aka self-oppression, at one time, I need to calm down and find it again.

Parents. Can't live with 'em . I'm sorry to say that I am glad there are other people out there! I can understand the need for independence too golden. I tend to think that it has given me a wide behavioural repertoire - now there's a good phrase, must remember it - to draw on, both for good and bad, though I've always known enough to reject violence thankfully. Takes years to understand the rest.

Hi I just wanted to drop by with big thankyou to all on this ongoing thread.
Both those who are brave enough to put their horror stories out there, and those who give so much time and thought, over and over, into trying to help them, even when you dont know if you've really been heard.
I've been around for years - lurking, and then asking for occasional advice under a range of bleak usernames - but recently things have changed, and after being pointed in the right direction over and over again, I have found myself surprised at just how far I have travelled and how wonderful and freeing it is to put down the fear, obliation and guilt and carry on without them.....weeeell - mostly - still a work in progress.
And Attilla I would hug you if I could

I came across the concept of Kintsugi quite by accident a few weeks ago and had one of thoses OMG moments - thats me...I'm not a broken thing - devalued by the damage - Its the work thats gone into the repairs that adds the value - hence the change of username - although I may be too embarrased to stick with it now

so THANKYOU ! its been life changing !

NoTech, I feel like this too - I'm 42 now and still struggle with my legacy of poor parenting, the emotional abuse, the slaps, the shouting, the blaming for everything, the critical mother, the disinterested father who did nothing to step in and try and protect us kids from the fallout of my mothers mental health problems and drinking.

I've said earlier in the thread, my mother passed away late last year and I was hoping for peace in my life and an opportunity to get a bit closer to my dad, spend time with him but no, he chose to pick up a girlfriend two weeks after my mother passed away - another bossy controlling woman who tried to come between us, cause trouble as I think she felt threatened by me. My father reverted to type, sided with this woman (hes know now for just 6 months) and again let me down.

Its been NC between us for 5 weeks now - no contact off him for the GC at all, he just doesn't care. And apparently its all my fault - I'm the scapegoat again, just like I was when I was a child, I'm a troublemaker just like when I was a child and used to try and stand up to my mother.

He's made me feel like an abandoned child again, its put me back years. At the same time I'm devastated to think I'll have lost my dad

One thing though it has opened my eyes to what absolutely terrible parents they were - I spend every day making sure my children are secure and loved unconditionally.

Florida Sounds v similar apart from role reversal for my parents. I actually gave up on my mother years ago but I'm just wondering if some recent signs of improvement following father's death are for real... and whether it's worth the risk.

Your father sounds like a very bad 'un. It is so very hard but you and your kids will be better off without him in the long run. Not worth the risk.