"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dystfunctional Families

[Meerka]

It's May 2015, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
March 2015

Dec 14- March 15

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Afternoon Stately Homers, hope everyone is well.

I have NCd for this so if I am outed then it won't out my usual username but I do post here fairly regularly.

I have an odd relationship with my DM which has got stranger and stranger over the last few months as I am expecting my first baby and this seems to have thrown all sorts of previously buried stuff up.

She does a lot of projecting, is often pretty nasty to me particularly when she is drunk (which is regularly) and then will be nice as pie again the next time we see each other - it is enough to give a girl whiplash.

The other stuff is pretty standard - triangulation between me and my other siblings as well as pretty much everyone else in her life, violation of boundaries, swinging between ignoring and engulfing, generally drawing as much attention to herself as possible, casting herself as the hero in every story, lying, believing herself to be superior because of her profession etc.

Her main obsession (apart from being he best person at everything) is weight, namely how thin she is and how fat everyone else is. Being fat is the worst thing a person can be if you believe her and she genuinely thinks it is a reflection on the personality of the person if they are fat. When describing someone, fat will be the first thing she will use to describe them.

Her weight obsession was drummed into us all as children and we were all told we were fat, or should be scared of being fat etc. This (among other things) has resulted in me and every single one of my siblings suffering from an eating disorder at some point in our lives and when I was in the grip of mine, had a BMI of 17 and hadn't had a period for months, DM told me that I was "looking the best you have ever looked but your thighs are still a bit chubby".

With this in mind, I have actively avoided the subject of weight while I have been pregnant and have tried to ignore the comments she makes - I look like a whale, I am gaining too much weight, I am fat, I am the size of a house, I look like the death star when I turn to the side etc, she only gained half a stone when she was pregnant and was straight back into her old clothes. She has also told me that she has told all of her friends that I am huge / humungous / ginormous.

I don't know why I am surprised at all but she is the only person who hasn't made an effort to say one nice thing since I have been pregnant. This morning I must have either let my guard down or momentarily taken leave of my senses as I mentioned that one of my friends had said to me that I carry being pregnant well and that I hadn't gained much weight apart from my bump and she couldn't let it go by. She said "Oh I don't know about that - it looks pretty huge to me from the side and the front" Then she remarked "When I saw you today I though Oh My God Gollum - look at the size of you"...

I don't know why it bothers me but it does - I expect it but it still hurts a bit each time... Why?!! I have started correcting her when she says hurtful things and telling her off for it, although I am then invariably branded as over sensitive, hard or taking things too personally... I just can't understand why she can't just let one opportunity to make me feel shit go by!

Just had to get that off of my chest!

Hope you are all well.

Weight comments from mothers are very damaging emotionally as well as hurtful and so I am not surprised you feel hurt. Your mother is very much the definition of a toxic parent and she seems to also have you down as the scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

If she is too toxic/difficult for you to deal with it will be the same for your vulnerable and defenceless child.

I would stay well away from her and keep your as yet unborn child away from her as well. If she cannot behave at all decently then do not see her. She will likely also pass on her own weight issues to your child and start making comments on her weight to her too.

I am really worried about that Attila - my PILs are also obsessed with weight (MIL commented that a 6 week old baby was fat!) and I am worried about the effects that it could have on my child.

We are planning on speaking to them about this specifically and being very firm about them not discussing food fads / fat / thinness / body image etc in front of the baby - I really don't want my child to end up with the same lifetime of self esteem issues and body hangups that I have!

I am moving towards LC with my own DPs and we are already fairly LC with PIL due to distance, plus the fact that they just have a more hands off relationship with DH...

I am hoping that they can all find it in themselves to behave! Thankfully, this isn't the first GC which I am hoping takes the heat off a little bit.

Gollum Will they listen and do what you ask? My parents would go out of the their way to keep bringing up weight etc if I ask them not to.

I think my DM will listen if my DH leads the conversation - he is the new golden child to my scapegoat I think! Same with the PILs - I think they will listen if DH leads.

I am quite determined that they either will listen or they just won't see us. I have been quite brave recently and really started to stand up for myself with DM over a few things. I win small victories but there is always a price to pay for them of course, hence the LC.

Last time we spent any amount of time with them (more than a day or a flying visit) DH was surprised at how awful my DM was to me - at one point she said "Well, it's to be hoped that the baby doesn't turn out like her(me)"... DH was really surprised and asked her to explain what she meant and she backtracked and said it was something about pregnancy or being a small baby that she was referring to.

I was pretty surprised as she has been quite civil over the last few years - but I think a lot of the scapegoating and projecting is made worse by the fact that she has a drinking problem. For example, she said to me in front of DH a while ago that when she first met DH she and her partner had warned him about me when I wasn't in the room, about the fact that that I can be very 'difficult'. I was understandably upset about this although my DH doesn't remember this conversation so it is unlikely that it actually happened and she probably made it up on the spur of the moment... Not sure whether it is worse to actually have the conversation, or to make it up though?!!

Anyway - when sober, I think she tries to overcompensate for the bad drunk behaviour and then come 4pm she is at it again. She seems to listen to DH though, drunk or sober so I am hoping that this will be the case with the weight thing.

Gollum,

re your comment:-
"We are planning on speaking to them about this specifically and being very firm about them not discussing food fads / fat / thinness / body image etc in front of the baby - I really don't want my child to end up with the same lifetime of self esteem issues and body hangups that I have!"

I think that you will find that talking to them will be a wasted effort because they do not think they are doing anything wrong in the first place. They won't likely take any notice even if your DH leads the discussion. Your current level of low contact will perhaps ultimately lead to no contact.

Anyway do either of you really want to spend any time at all with someone who apart from going on at you about your weight is also a drunkard?. Its not going to do your child any favours either in the long run.

New poster, but I've lurked these threads for a while. I'm really sad and angry tonight and I think you guys here will understand.

I told my mum earlier that my boss is sexually harassing me, and what he does/says, and she laughed at me. I said, "it's not funny, I can't believe you think anything about this is funny" she told me "oh come on, it's not that bad" in her 'shut-up-or-I'll-start-shouting' voice.

What kind of a woman laughs when her upset daughter confesses that her boss is sexually harassing her and it's worse because I know anything I say about this now will be taken as a personal attack against her/her reaction. She's made me feel so much worse; I feel frustrated and helpless against her now too.

WONAR

I would tell your mother absolutely nothing about your life from now on; I presume she has always been this way inclined towards you.

Re your boss who is breaking the law here (Equality Act 2010), I would read the following and I would also consider talking to ACAS if you have not already done so.

www.workplacematters.org.uk/articles/dealing-sexual-harassment-in-workplace

www.safeworkers.co.uk/sexualharassmentwork.html

Thank you Attila.

Unfortunately there's not much I can do about my boss as he's also the business owner, and my line of work is mostly temporary. At my workplace, I not only have a good job status/title and a permanent contract; I also get on well with everyone, I love my job, and the people we work with are great. He doesn't come in much so I only have to deal with him on some days. I am, however, keeping a diary of incidents...

"Unfortunately there's not much I can do about my boss as he's also the business owner, and my line of work is mostly temporary"

No, he has not got that much power. Its precisely because he is the business owner that he needs to be taken to task. I wonder how many other women he has targeted in a similar manner. Do speak to ACAS or some such organisation about this matter; what he is doing to you is breaking the law as well.

Sorry Wonar, that sounds really tough. :(

Sorry for the rant i've been lurking for a while but over the weekend I've had two sets of shitty interactions from both parents.

My parents split up 5 years ago after a long, cold and very bitter marriage- which they occasionally revel that they stayed together 'for me and my sibling' as they clearly imagine they gave us an idyllic childhood where we went on foreign holidays and visited national trust properties and garden centres at the weekend.

They fail to account that growing up in an almost Edwardian style home where we were banned from talking at the dinnertable and were sent to our rooms frequently as well as being banned from the front room as we were 'bothering them' as well as the constant cold war dynamic that existed between my parents who clearly didn't even like each other let alone love each other has massively impacted my sister and I as adults. Luckily we are both in fairly normal relationships but have spent years struggling with conflict and how to approach it as we were never given either a positive model for disagreement or one for how to behave with loved ones-so we've had to make our own.

The worst bit is that they are /so/ desperate to maintain the middle class ...shite that they are so proud of that the fact that my mum developed a drinking problem when I was about 9 which got steadily worse and worse which started with occasional bouts of screaming at me and my sister and drunk driving with us in the car and escalated (until we moved out and both refused any drunken phone contact) until verbal abuse and occasional physical abuse (I was once slapped across the face when I stopped my mum dragging my posessions out of my bedroom to burn them on the lawn to 'make me move the fuck out' when I had just graduated uni) as well as constant passive aggressive snarks about weight, social abilities, boyfriends etc.

And through all of that my dad just sat in the front room and turned the tv louder when there was screaming fights in other parts of the house- rather than address any issues he simply ignored them and once told me to 'Just leave it, you know how she gets' when he found out I was serious in demaning an apology from my mum for ringing my MIL (at the time my boyfriend's mother) and swearing at her as well as ringing me telling me I was 'fucking useless' and if I didn't get all my stuff out the house the next day she was taking it to the tip.) The only time he ever intervened and stopped my mum was during the slapping incident where I phoned him (at this point my parents were living in seperate properties but still oddly pretending that they were together as if no-one realised) and it was only at the point where I clearly stated that if he didn't deal with it then I would call the police that he felt the need to wade in. The bit where his wife had slapped his daughter apparently didn't warrent action.

As an adult (nearly 30) I have very limited contact, I've seen dad twice since October- the fact that we didn't have a close relationship anyway was compounded by the fact that dad is now living with his long term girlfriend (who I know he has been having an affair with for at least the last 12 years of my parent's "marriage") who is a bitch and keeps openly making little snarky hints about when my dad took her to this place or that place 10 odd years ago. So yes, I basically see him as little as possible.

My mum still seems baffled as to why they seperated, drinking is still a problem but not so much as it was when I was a teenager (she lost her driver's license after being pulled over by the police and being found to be 3 times the legal limit which seemed to clue her in to the fact that she might be drinking a bit too much) She still regularly drinks and gets drunk but the angry ranting phonecalls have stopped after I followed my husband's advice and used to hang up and then block her number whenever she called like that and then not unblock it for a week afterwards.- She's only called me drunk and angry once in the last year whereas it used to be every 2 or 3 days.
..................
Anyhow- that's the backstory. (Sorry it's long- wanted to get the dynamics explained)

I had left sent a message to my dad last week to arrange a brief Father's day visit- due to phone problems my end he didn't recieve this message so when I called him Sunday morning to wish him Happy Father's day he was shitty with me telling me he'd made other plans (fine, no problems) and that I /still/ haven't seen their new house since they moved 7 months ago (for the record I asked if we could go and see him at the house on Christmas Eve but was told that his girlfriends daughter was visiting and as such they were having 'family time' o.0 (suited me just fine and I didn't make an issue of it at the time) This has really fucked me off as I tried to visit less than a month after they moved and was knocked back.

Also my mum decided to take it upon herself to ring my MIL (who by the way despite having a horrible drunken ranting phonecall from my mother last year is lovely and really understanding- mainly due to my FIL being an alcoholic who died 6 years ago two years after their divorce) and ask when she had last seen my DD. As it turns out my MIL looked after my DD who is 9 months old on Saturday so I could go to a hen party (I'm the maid of honour for my best friend and had organised the day) She (MIL) and my DD both had a lovely day and I'm thrilled they had fun together.
This led to a narky text from my mother asking me to tell her when I am in that town as I am 'apparently there all the time' She's now kicking off (mainly at my sister in weepy self pitying emails) about why she doesn't get lovely days with my DD and that my MIL gets her all to herself.

..............

I know these are minor issues compared with both other people's problems as well as how they were in the past but seriously fuck them both. I don't want to go and play 'awkward happy families' with my father and his new family- he never bothered to forge a relationship so he can't now get stroppy that one doesn't appear as if by magic now I'm an adult. I don't ever think to text him simply because he's not a part of my life.

Also never in a million years is my mum going to be allowed to look after my daughter unsupervised. She has a history of shitty decision making and random dangerous behaviour- why on earth does she think that I'm just going to hand over my DD to her.

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the sheer refusal by either of them to see that anything is wrong- they either point blank deny events happy, tell me I am remembering them wrong (when I recalled my mum clipping a lampost after mounting the kerb whilst drunk when me and my sister 8 and 10 were in the car at the time) or telling me I am making too much of an issue of things. I /can't/ have had an unhappy childhood you see because we lived in a detached house, had holidays, lots of weekend outings etc etc.
.....
I would have far preferred parent's that loved me and looked after me in a normal way.

Sorry for the thesis-like length of it- I'm really pissed off and don't want to start WW3. :(

Also apologies for the shocking grammar and typos. :(

karigan I'm sorry, that sounds awful. I'm sure you're doing the right thing for your DD protecting her. Re this: I know these are minor issues compared with how they were in the past that's okay, and very understandable. When it's happening, there and then, you just survive. You just cope. When you come out of it, as an adult, and you have people who are kind and rational around you for comparison and you're not purely surviving, it can be very hard to deal with the 'small' things.

WONAR I second not telling your mother anything else about your life. She won't give you the support you need, so why do it? Look after yourself

Hi everyone just reading through all your posts here and just thinking how these people we call our parents could do and say all these shitty things as a parent myself I just can't understand it!!

I know these are minor issues compared with both other people's problems

Karigan, we've all thought that. Every one of us. I don't think Dad's that bad until other people reply that actually it is that bad. His biggest saving grace at this point is that he's happy to drop me from his life almost all the time. I cling onto that as a 'oh, he's not that bad really!' thing, because I, like most people, wish I had a dad who loves me and cares for me, so I'll pounce on every opportunity to think so.

So don't think that your time and your story are less worthy than anyone else's.

Next, I don't want to go and play 'awkward happy families' with my father and his new family- he never bothered to forge a relationship so he can't now get stroppy that one doesn't appear as if by magic now I'm an adult.

This is a really good thing. A really, really good thing and it's empowering you to think 'actually, as an adult, I get to choose who I have in my life.' You didn't as a child, so take that opportunity now. You are not obligated to him in any way. He didn't protect your feelings when you were young and he was pretty much contractually obliged to do so, so why on earth should you protect his now?

Also never in a million years is my mum going to be allowed to look after my daughter unsupervised.

Again, be empowered by this. You are the parent and as such, you get to decide what relationships and situations are safe for your child. Any time you're getting grief, just remind yourself of that.

WONAR, I totally agree with Attila's comment that you can't share your life with her. I tried this with Dad and it actually turned out to be really difficult for me to do. I kept blurting out information, largely to avoid giving him other information and obviously he'd then pounce on them with his Very Important Opinions. For me, this only got resolved when I went NC, but I know that other people have a better grip on their mouths than I do!

I'm also sorry for what happened/is happening to you. I agree that you need to get actual advice, and I'm so, so sorry that your mum isn't being supportive of you when you need her.

Gollum I agree what other people say here to. On the other hand, the mean little part of me is sort of thinking, next time she makes a ridiculous comment about your weight/size, laugh in her face and say 'Oh, Mum, you and your ridiculous weight obsession! I'm obviously very healthy!'

I really think that the ignore thing is safer though.

I agree with a lot of what you say Attila - it's just so hard to know what to do for the best!

I can't not see DM and let her see the baby - she would be absolutely heartbroken and I think it is needlessly cruel. I want to give her the chance to change her behaviour if she can (as it will be for short time periods then maybe she can?) and I think she will do her best as she will want to see DGC.

As for the PILs, the jury is out on them - I kind of see them as DHs problem really, although I obviously support him and help where I can - they have been about 50/50 in the past when asked to stop doing things and interfere a lot less in our relationship than they used to.

Pincushion I have started trying to call her out on it - along the lines of your suggestion - 'Oh, Mum, you and your ridiculous weight obsession! I'm obviously very healthy!' and the first few times I got a stunned silence - I must admit, she has been a bit better but she still finds a way to jellyfish something in... Maybe I just need to persevere.

Gollumsprecious,

re your comment:-
"I can't not see DM and let her see the baby - she would be absolutely heartbroken and I think it is needlessly cruel. I want to give her the chance to change her behaviour if she can (as it will be for short time periods then maybe she can?) and I think she will do her best as she will want to see DGC".

Such people like your mother really make for being awful as grandparent figures. She was not a good parent to you and will not be a good grandparent figure to your child.

No re giving these people further chances; it will be a decision that will come back and bite you hard on the bottom. If she cannot behave decently she should get to see none of you. She cannot behave now, she still finds a way to have a go at you. Why should such behaviour be at all tolerated, you would not have tolerated any of that from a friend.

You also have no evidence either to suggest that she has at all changed from when you were a child. She still goes on at you about your weight, is still a drunkard and likely still triangulates. Self preservation is therefore necessary, for your sake as well as your yet to be born child. She will start on him/her given any opportunity and will get back at you via your child; it will all happen in front of you.

Am sorry to be so blunt but introducing her to your child is something I would not at all consider. If she is too difficult/toxic for you to deal with she is far too difficult/toxic for your both vulnerable and defenceless child.

This from Lightshouse is worth reading too:-
"Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents’ (and society’s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate first hand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.

The children’s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)

The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different — instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to.
.

If your parents were not good parents and you are considering whether or not to allow a relationship with your children, consider the following factors, as well as others, before deciding:
•Have they fully addressed their issues in SKILLED long-term therapy? (A few weeks or months is nowhere near adequate if your parents regularly mistreated you).
.
•Have they been treated for all the root causes of their dysfunction or abuse?
.
•Have they sincerely apologized and made amends for the hurtful things they did? Not just said, “I’m sorry”, but really talked it all through with you over many hours’ time?
.
•Are they very different people to you from the ones you remember?
.
•Do you currently have a healthy, functional and stable relationship with them?
.
•Do they respect your choices and boundaries as a parent? Do they follow your requests about how you want your children to be treated and to behave?
.
•Would you recommend your parents to your best friend as babysitters without any hesitation or worry, and feel comfortable giving your word that they’d never harm your friend’s child, without any doubt?
.
•Have you worked through all of your feelings about the mistreatment you experienced through your parents?

.
These are just a few of the important questions to answer. The best plan is to work through the matter with a therapist of your own, who has no bias toward trying to “keep families together” despite the presence of mistreatment.
.

More Here: lightshouse.org/lights-blog/toxic-bad-abusive-grandparents#ixzz3dtj456Fk"

After a week with my mum staying I think it's time to join this thread. I don't even know where to start. I feel like my head is a tumble dryer, everything going round and round and chaotic. I'm also a bit worried I may break the internet with my issues.

My mum said that her children are the centre of her world, and more important than anything else. My first thought was 'So why have I never felt loved or cared for then?'. Everyone thinks my mum is wonderful. I feel like I'm stuck in some alternate reality. Then it dawned on me, it because she treats strangers like her children, so they feel special. But from her children's perspective, we get treated the same as strangers so we feel un-special.

I'm torn between feeling sad at how lonely and vulnerable she is, because she's my mum and I'm a kind person, and thinking it's a situation of her own making. I've told her how I feel but she doesn't take it on board, she sort of dismisses it as unintentional and then carries on doing the same. I'm so tired.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of soap opera called Hedgehogs Street.

Gollum my mother was like that regarding weight issues. Its appalling and abusive to make a child feel that her body is somehow wrong. Like you I had have a lifetime of always always feeling fat even when I was not. Sad really because I always have had a lovely figure but never appreciated it. She is the voice in my head when I view myself in any mirror and it prevents me from liking what I see.

You are quite right in that you must stop this now and not allow either your mother or your parents in law to ever say anything in this vein to any child of yours. The buck must stop here. You are the one who can stop it and not allow it to happen and pull her up on it whenever she comments on you or any children of yours. Your DH sounds brilliant. He is a good one.

Hedgehog I understand that feeling that your mother doesn't treat you "special" and treats your friends better than she treats you. Its your right as her child to feel special and cared for and loved isn't it? I get the frustration at explaining to her how you feeling which makes you feel vulnerable only to have her deny it or play it down and make you feel that it is you that is expecting too much. Your not by the way. I found that when I had my own children I totally understood how a parent should be. My kids will always come first and feel totally and unconditionally loved and that they are perfect just the way they are.

Please read some of the books on Meerkas opening post. Toxic Parents was the best one for me. It does make you cry as you read though and puts you through the ringer but it makes you see how not alone your are and that your feelings are completely valid and that you have to learn how to protect yourself.

Attilla you have brilliant words of wisdom here. I have been on the thread a couple of times under a couple of names and lurked a lot. You are so helpful and supportive to people. Just wanted to say "thanks" really .

Hi all,
I seem to be having a few lightbulb moments this morning - and not in a good way. Long story short, I'm now pretty sure that my DM had a tendency towards NPD at least. She passed away over 20 years ago now, but the legacy remains, and having read lots of information about the condition online I am beginning to see it for what it is and how it has affected me over time. The trouble is, what went on for years when I was young (DM died when I was in my 20's, now wrong side of 40!) is still continuing as DB seems to have the same issues.

Problem I have is that DB and I need to work together to manage a trust set up by DF (who died a few years ago) in favour of his grandchildren (my DC - DB has no children) This is extremely difficult as DB has always felt that he is entitled to "his share" of this fund. He is quite obstructive and unpleasant, but always puts it in terms of my failings - e.g. are you sure you are ok, your behaviour has changed, send me the letter where we agreed x course of action. When I answer questions rationally, the answers are ignored/never referenced.

I am trying the approach of NC on a personal level ( he actually initiated LC shortly after our DF died, and I went along with this) but I am trying to have a very businesslike relationship with him in order to run the trust. Even this is difficult, and I have to bend over backwards to try and ensure that there is absolutely nothing I am doing that he has any logical reason to take issue with.

I hope I am handling this as well as I can, but am doubtful - should I have more personal contact? Is NC other than for "business" right? I also worry about his influence on his DNs - both teenagers - but am unsure as to how much to put them in the picture as I want to be very careful not to unfairly influence them.

Sorry - probably only given half the information needed to enable anyone to help, but don't want to out myself.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated, and for all who are dealing with situations far worse than mine.

fifth
What is NPD please.

Hi Milllii - NPD=narcissistic personality disorder

Ahhhhh! of course. Thanks :)

How did you get on with your brother before your Dad died fifth? Just wondering if he is like this because he feels that he has been badly treated as I think you have said that he was left no money by your Dad. That must have hurt him loads and possibly make him feel very bitter? Why did your Dad leave him out of the will. Did he have a grudge against him? Just wondered as he must have known that by leaving all his money to your children that this would cause bad feeling between you and your Brother.