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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Sex and my right to say no

32 replies

FFSletmechangemyname · 16/05/2015 07:55

This morning DH woke up and it was clear he wanted to have sex, I said no, I have a hip injury at the moment and it hurts for a start and I'm just not in the mood.
He then tried to persuade me and I again I said no several times at which point he then what I can only describe as 'sulked' saying I never let him near me and went to work. He refused to kiss me before he left.

There is a pattern here and I really don't know how to tackle it, in the past I can admit to 'giving in' for an easy life even when I'm not in the mood and quite frankly I hate myself for that.

The older I'm getting the less tolerant to it I'm becoming but I'm not sure how to express it in words without getting angry or very upset.

I do enjoy dtd but I was abused when I was young and despite feeling like I have dealt with that, this morning I have had a light bulb moment and realised I have 'flash backs' a lot that I ignore when dtd which probably don't help.

What I really need help with is DH, how do I make him understand that saying no isn't about him it's about me and how I'm feeling.
Just for context we dtd the night before last.

OP posts:

cailindana · 16/05/2015 08:25

You have every right to say no at any point, whenever you want. You shouldn't have to explain that to someone who supposedly loves you. Coercing someone into having sex through emotional manipulation (sulking etc) is rape. He wants sex with you even when it's clear you don't want it. That is not normal. I'm not sure a healthy relationship can be salvaged from this tbh.

TisILeclerc · 16/05/2015 08:33

I'm afraid I agree. This is a man who's sense of entitlement leads him to dismiss your physical and emotional health. Very nasty.

I'd be very surprised if you came back to say that he's a wonderful, loving, thoughtful husband in every way, OP

Sadly FFS men like this rarely, if ever, change. Mine certainly didn't. What you say your h says is almost verbatim what mine would say. He never changed after eighteen years together. I'm about to get my decree absolute.

TisILeclerc · 16/05/2015 08:34

Every other way, sorry.

TheoriginalLEM · 16/05/2015 08:38

You have every right to say no and he absolutely needs to respect that. He wants to have sex despite you having an injury that makes it painful and he STILL sulks???

My DP can be a bit of a persuader and its difficult because sometimes the persuasion works and it actually quite pleasant but it has resulted in him being told to fuck the fuck off before. In my grumpy old age i find the words "don't even think about it" make it pretty clear that actually he can stroke me as much as he likes which is fine and lovely but its going nowhere :)

You saying no is about how you feel at the time but surely he should be in tune enough with your feelings to respect that. Does he know what happened to you in the past?

BathtimeFunkster · 16/05/2015 08:39

So he wants to have sex on you even when he knows it will hurt you and if you don't oblige, he sulks?

And you are trying to figure out a way to gently explain to this sex bully that his rapey behaviour is unacceptable?

Maybe you should give his feelings on the matter exactly the same weight as he gives yours, ie zero.

If it pisses you off that he treats you like his personal fuck toy, then tell him that and be as angry as you want.

You have every right to be.

FishWithABicycle · 16/05/2015 08:40

Someone who tries to persuade you to have sex when you have a hip injury which means that to do so will hurt - does not love you. Sorry.

You have an absolute right to not have sex if you don't want to. If someone then makes sex happen whether through physical or verbal force, that is rape.

If your DH values his right to have sex over your right to own your own body then everyone is better off if he leaves and seeks another partner to fulfil his selfish needs.

kittensinmydinner · 16/05/2015 09:07

Ok, back in the rw where normal people don't walk out of relationships because of a disagreement and a dh who sulks, i would seriously sit him down (do not have this discussion in bed) and tell him how you feel and more importantly how it makes you feel when you have been 'persuaded' into it. If you have been the type of person who says no but 'gives in' - then he will take this as 'the way to get you in the mood' . You need to knock that theory on the head and explain its quite the opposite and makes you feel uncomfortable . There are very few decent men who would want sex with their OH because they wanted 'a quiet life and to get it over with'
That said - are your libidos seriously mismatched ? If not then he will just have to cope with the occasional disappointment but if they are and you cannot reach a compromise it may well be a deal breaker for him. For whilst you have every right to say no to sex - he has every right to leave a relationship to find a more sexually compatible partner.

TheoriginalLEM · 16/05/2015 09:16

In the RW if my DP didn't respect my right to say no, i indeed would be fucking him off out the door. There is a fine line between a bit of persuasion (after all its nice to get a bit of foreplay!) and co-ercing into sex just to stop someone from fucking sulking.

And as for your suggesting that he has the right to leave her for someone who is more compatible sexually seems to me like you are suggesting she needs to put up and shut up.

Honestly, if i even had to have the conversation with my DP about respecting my right to say no (because obviously it meant he didn't) then there is no relationship, in the real world!!!

Christ on a bike

cailindana · 16/05/2015 09:18

Kittens do you seriously think a man asking several times for sex and then sulking when his partner says no is just normal behaviour, something that just needs to be talked about? And that a man can seriously be unaware that the person he's having sex with isn't in the mood? How could any man think badgering a woman until she stops saying no is the same as 'getting her in the mood'? If you think this behaviour is just a misunderstanding I dread to think what type of men you know and what experiences you've had. Normal men are kind and want their partner to be genuinely up for sex. Any man who bullies and sulks to coerce an unwilling partner into sex is a nasty arsehole.

Vivacia · 16/05/2015 09:20

In the rw normal men wouldn't want to have sex with a woman who wasn't consenting. In the rw a man being pounced upon by a woman with a hip injury would say, "Are you sure this is a good idea? I'm worried that you're going to get hurt". In the rw a man who completely mis-read the situation and realised that his partner doesn't want sex doesn't sulk and withhold affection. In the rw rapey behaviour isn't put down to "mismatched libidos".

Anniegetyourgun · 16/05/2015 09:27

It doesn't matter whether it's about sex or anything else, it's bullying behaviour and I don't see why someone should have to be cool with it. Persuading is fine if it's done pleasantly and there is a point beyond which they know not to keep trying (this does work for both sexes). Badgering and sulking is not. Your long-term partner having a health condition such as a hip injury that would cause them actual pain if they did give in would seem to be a pretty clear indicator that now is not a good time.

ALaughAMinute · 16/05/2015 09:32

My feeling is that your H needs to learn to be a more considerate lover. Is there any way you can have sex or be intimate that doesn't involve pain?

Original poster

FFSletmechangemyname · 16/05/2015 09:32

Thank you for all your replies, I think I knew what you would all say tbh but it is hard to hear.

He isn't always like this, some times he will take no for an answer but most of the time I do just 'give in ' for an easy life. I kind of rationalise this though as him not really knowing as I give in, don't get me wrong I mostly enjoy it when I do but sometimes on these occasions is when I get the flashbacks. And of course there are lots of times I do want to dtd.

We do have mismatched libidos though, he is has a very high libido and I can take it or leave it. It's hard to know though if this is because I just have a low libido or if it's a product of being coerced into sex for all these yrs, does that make sense ?

I will be honest and say I won't LTB over this, I know it's not right, I'm going to suggest counselling to him to see if we can work it out, if he won't go I will go on my own. I have a lot of issues I need to address and I have a feeling that once I've done that I will be able to LTB, I think the abuse has conditioned me Into accepting things I wouldn't if it hadn't happened.
And yes he knows about the abuse.

OP posts:

cailindana · 16/05/2015 09:34

Sorry what? A more considerate lover? As in, not bullying his wife into sex you mean? What does it matter if there's a way she can do it without pain? If she doesn't want it, it doesn't happen.

Original poster

FFSletmechangemyname · 16/05/2015 09:36

And I am having treatment for the hip Injury, it's just it hurts more in the morning and I have to get up and stretch out etc before the pain eases so this morning wasn't a good time. Plus the DC were in and out and I have a friends little girl here too so it just wasn't the right time.

He seems to take it that I done 'fancy' him but that's not the case.

OP posts:

Original poster

FFSletmechangemyname · 16/05/2015 09:37

don't

OP posts:

cailindana · 16/05/2015 09:37

If you know that sex isn't really optional, then of course that'll reduce your desire for it.

I have a thread going in relationships for survivors of abuse (can't link as on phone). Please do join if you feel it might help

TisILeclerc · 16/05/2015 09:49

Oh lordy. I thought I had zero interest in sex. I thought we had mismatched libidos. I left him and six months later my libido woke up.

Nearly three years later I'm still a bit anxious about sex and if a partner appears to have an expectation that sex will happen I can clam up totally (as it were!) but I never have any doubts about my libido anymore. For me it was totally down to him. Repeated rape and sexual assaults kind of do that - kill your desire.

If you want to, talk to him. It's not YOUR job to fix this though. If he really is a 'D'P then he'll want to fix it too. If he is anything other than enthusiastic then you may as well save your efforts.

I hope your hip is better soon

Vivacia · 16/05/2015 09:56

Plus the DC were in and out and I have a friends little girl here too so it just wasn't the right time.

Christ.

OP I understand and respect your decision not to LTB. I think it's a process and I think that counselling on your own is a brilliant idea. Please start looking in to it today, even if you can't actually ring until office hours on Monday.

Vivacia · 16/05/2015 09:57

Repeated rape and sexual assaults kind of do that - kill your desire.

I was thinking more that you go in to protective, survival mode. Your desire for sex isn't killed so much as it takes a back seat to self-preservation.

kittensinmydinner · 16/05/2015 09:58

OP, I think that seems an extremely good way forward. This is obviously a serious issue for you, that your OH may not realise is such a problem as you are probably keeping much to yourself and counselling either with him or on your own will give you the chance to get your feelings (which obviously run deeper than this particular issue) out. As for the decision not to LTB - again your reaction is spot on, for some reason their is a ridiculous default setting on this forum that screams 'got a problem - leave your DP/DH he is abusive.- without any thought about the practicalities of such a move and the affect it would have on the whole family. Not every man is an abuser/potential abuser/closet abuser when they behave badly, sometimes they are simply being knobs and need to be told so. As for being worried about the standard of relationship I would put up with ? Well, been married twice, once for 18 yrs now for 26 both DH /ex DH were/are lovely...and here's a newsflash Sometimes, they sulk, sometimes they are unbelievably unreasonable sometimes they are simply being knobs. Not all relationships are perfect every minute of everyday, most are built on compromise and actually talking to each other before walking out the bloody door 'on principle', which never the less - always remains every bodies option in any relationship at any time.

GoatsDoRoam · 16/05/2015 10:00

He thinks sex is what you are for: he sulks because he's pissed off that you have autonomy over your own body. He's angry that you get to choose whether you want to have sex or not.

Yeah, that kind of attitude wouldn't have me raging with lust either...

I think your libido is jut fine, OP. You are just married to an entitled prick.

cailindana · 16/05/2015 10:31

There are no perfect relationships. But there are plenty of relationships where there is total respect between partners and no matter what's wrong neither of them ever treats the other like shit. It shouldn't be up to the OP to tell her partner not to coerce her into sex; that should be a totally basic thing in a loving relationship.

Vivacia · 16/05/2015 11:02

There are relationships with lots of sulking and there are relationships with sexual assault and coercion.

Isetan · 16/05/2015 11:11

This is him prioritising his dick over the emotional and physical well-being of someone he supposedly loves. Ths ongoing selfishness and disrespect of your body autonomy is an obvious trigger for the past abuse, when your body autonomy was not only disrespected but violated.

I totally understand why you're not yet ready to LTB but when I LTB, I realised that my labido was fine. I didn't want to have sex with my Ex because deep down I knew he wasn't interested in me or my needs, my subconscious stopped me from being 'a convenient wank receptacle' when my conscious self was confused in denial.

I seriously recommend that you prioritise solo counselling over couples counselling because his selfishness isn't your responsibility but investing in your emotional well-being is.

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