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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Cant cope with controlling husband - seems so trivial but totally worn down

64 replies

comberbird · 11/05/2015 10:13

My husband and I have been married for four year and have a 16 mth old DS. The marriage has been troubled from the outset due to fertility issues - first pregnancy loss at 15 weeks after baby diagnosed with chromonsomal issues, miscarriage, IVF and eventually my beautiful boy. Suffered from PND afterwards [although think i was just knackered and got no support from DH]. The issue now is one of control. We are both quite alpha people holding down very pressured jobs and are the boss at work. I admit there are times I like to get my own way but at home I dont beleive there is any compromise except without an argument. I will describe the weekend

  • Dh comes home on friday - not seen each other much as both at work a lot during the week and I was working abroad the weekend before. I complained I was feeling a bit lonely as I hadnt seem him or friends for a few weeks. He suggested seeing a friend on saturday but given she has two kids under 2 and lives 40 miles away i thought it might not work. His response - its no wonder you are lonely if you dont make an effort. Cue tears as this kind of callousness is now normal. Saturday we were gardening and i asked what he was doing with the hose, he snaps at me, makes a gun sign to his head and storms off. When i cant use the hose [with no end on it, and carrying a toddler] he storms up to me and shoves me and the baby out of the way and grabs it from me "to help". Later we go to the park, I said i wanted to go home because i was tired and DS needed to be fed - he suggested going to the pub or a longer walk and i repeated that I want to go home. he thens asks when I will feed DS, why I need to feed him so early and that he always feeds him later? Before we head out for our anniversary dinner he moves a pot around in the garden and I suggest it looks better where it was ... he storms out of the house slamming the door and comes back and argues the whole way through bathtime. We go out for our anniversary dinner and I cry throughout.

I didnt sleep on Saturday night as I was so upset about every aspect of our life being a struggle. I woke up and talked to him about this. He always turns it round on me and asks what I am going to do to change things, eventually he apologises and says he will change, he wants to stay together for the sake of our son etc. Tries to make amends, yet first thing in the morning is standing over me while i put the dishwasher on to ensure its on at 70C so the dishes are clean ....

I could go on but this has been my life now on and off since I got pregnant. He says i am not affectionate or kind to him but I find it really hard when he wants to control everything at home and is so nasty to me[nothing can get done at home unless he agrees e.g. getting a new floor [and i pay for everything] and the he uses this as an example of 'me getting my own way'

I cant go on like this but dont know to do. I dont want to leave him as this things seem so trivial but i cant bear it any longer. The list goes on and on on him watching over me bathing my son and shouting at me everytime DS stands up [as he is worried i will let him hurt himself] and basically every aspect of life. I'd like to organise online shopping for example [he does the shopping but daily, wasting lots of time at the weekend] and he wont agree to it ... all so stupid but wearing. its making me feel very down and i dread the weekends and holidays

We have talked about separation but is always nasty and vindicative and says he will ensure i dont see as much of my son as I want ...

Do you think its possible to change things? please help .....

OP posts:
MsJJ79 · 11/05/2015 12:33

Exh and I are both dominant, 'alpha' type personalities. He liked that I commanded respect from people, and once said that his friends found me intimidating and he loved it (I'm not and they don't, was all projection!) He had controlling tendencies and I am fiercely independent and value freedom and autonomy, it was never going to work between us. His new gf is lovely but has little personality, just looks pretty on his arm and does what she's told from what I can tell! They at a much better suited couple than we were.

He wasn't abusive though, I think you're relationship sounds more problematic than simply a case of two dominant personalities.

nilbyname · 11/05/2015 12:34

Why would your mum ask you to leave? I'm not saying what he did was not horrendous. It was. But that's a big reaction from a parent and sort of paints a picture of other abuse?

My dh is an alpha male, but he has a very caring, warm sensitive side which evens him out. He is a high flyer and has a demanding job. Very very occasionally he will get very stroppy about something small, like fighting about what colour to paint the door. He wants the final say, but he doesn't get it, so he gets annoyed. So then I have to point his crazy behaviour and then he knocks it on the head, realised that the paint colour is not a 1 million pound decision And laughs about it, says sorry. That's normal behaviour. Does your dh do that?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/05/2015 12:34

"All my friends points to the pressure in our lives - the jobs, the fertility issues and a young son and seem to think marriage is hard and we can work through it".

The pressure in your lives is not the overall problem; his controlling nature is and this is why you are at the low point you are now. Also your friends do not have to live with him day to day and do not really know what he is like. I would urge you to open up more to others and if you cannot do that then at least talk to Womens Aid.

Relationships are not supposed to be such hard work honestly. Yes, you should work at your relationship but that is not the same thing at all.

Skiptonlass · 11/05/2015 12:41

Stood over you scrubbing the floor? Good god, you need to get out of this relationship pronto. He sounds like a hideous, controlling git.

Do NOT go to counselling together with him. Counselling works great if you're both determined and non abusive, but it is utterly counterproductive with an abuser. He will see your vulnerabilities and use them against you.

Why are you paying for everything if he's a barrister?

Your friends are right that marriage is a work in progress, but have you told them he stood over you making you scrub the floor? Are you minimising to your friends? Stop it, you will need their support. Tell them what he's really like. Listen to your mum.

Get advice, get copies of essential documents and get lawyered up. Call women's aid. This isn't a power couple bickering (I know plenty of those!) it's an abuser tightening his grip. Get out while your sanity is intact.

PoppyField · 11/05/2015 12:59

OMG OP, I recognise and identify with you a whole lot.

This was me, pretty much, about four years ago and no, it is not trivial - it is horrendous. The things he says, the level of pure 'nastiness', the monitoring, the undermining, the endless blaming.... I could go on. It is a campaign being waged against you. A war. Somewhere along the line - and you say this has been your life since you were pregnant - he decided (without telling you) that you are his enemy. I am so, so sorry this is happening to you. It is abuse. And there really is nothing you can do to change thing. He is not interested in making you happy in the marriage. His only interest is control. And you cannot - for your sanity and health of your child, allow this to continue.

We also had years of infertility and IVF. It is such a struggle. The trouble is, looking back, I think the infertility and all the grief around that masked the build up to abuse. I was miserable and getting more desperate, he showed signs of bullying when I became emotional. His temper and anger were scary before, but the incidents were relatively rare. When I got pregnant, instead of being proud and admiring of me (I was bloody proud and wanted to be admired for the fact that my body was finally doing what I wanted it to) - he withdrew affection from me. That was awful enough, but after the baby was born he was exactly like your DH is now... dreadful. He undermined me, picked holes in every decision that I made - every, tiny decisions about nappies, feeding, naps etc. All was questioned in a haranguing way, interrogation-style. And I was a SAHM! So when he came home from work there were endless distressing post mortems. He was overprotective of the dc, but I think that was really a mechanism for 'proving' that I didn't care enough and that I wasn't good enough. Everything was an implicit criticsm of me, and then there was the out-and-out criticism. He saw everything as a power battle. There's nothing you can do to defend yourself as nothing you say or do is going to convince him. He doesn't want you to feel ok.

Your brilliant mother is on your side. She knows. Please tell people in RL. And get legal advice. Start getting your ducks in a row and you will feel stronger.

You will get stuck asking 'Why?' over and over again (if you're anything like me). If you can, try and avoid that. There is no answer. If this is an itch you can't help but scratch, the Lundy Bancroft book is good. But the upshot is that your H is very unlikely to change. You haven't done anything, this is the person he is.

There might be lots of reasons... but they're all to do with him, whether it's boarding school (tick), hates his mother (tick)... whatever it is, this is him. It is a shock and may take time for you to come to terms with the fact. All your dreams take a severe knock. But gather support around you. Tell your family and supportive friends, and you'll get through it.

Don't feel ashamed that your child is so young. Be proud of the fact that you are protecting dc from growing up in a hostile environment where his mother is being abused.

I am now divorced. It took a long time as he became even more enraged that I dared to divorce him, so he was obstructive and hostile and intransigent. I just had to dig in and keep going. When you get a solicitor, get a really tough one, who has had experience of aggrieved, vexacious and abusive husbands. Best to err on the side of caution there.

p.s. what you say about weekends chimes with me. They were awful. Any expectation I ever had about nice family time, a bit of a rest etc were always dashed and by Monday morning I would be a mess. It is hard to explain how it makes you feel, but people will definitely believe you. It is also surprisingly common for abuse to start in pregnancy or just after the birth.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 11/05/2015 13:05

We are both alpha and don't get me wrong, we have struggled to find equilibrium, but it's never been anything like this. This is beyond two people trying to get their own way. This is toxic, physically abusive, and no relationship to bring up a child within. Sad

comberbird · 11/05/2015 13:05

Re my mum. She has had a tough marriage and stuck by my Dad -but actually they are fine now, in fact very very good sweet and charming together. She can see my husband is quite domineering but she also gets taken in by his charm. Mum is quite a gentle quiet person and I actually think she is a little afraid of my husband and I assume she thinks I feel the same way. How could I leave someone when i was 9 months pregnant, or a brand new mum, Even now I just dont know how I could cope.

I dont think he would hurt me physically at all.

Re his first marriage, yes I suspect the same. He mentioned having counselling once [and yes it seems he did charm the counsellor] and he mentioned that counsellor said he needed someone who would stand up to him. He said his ex was a difficult person [he describes me the same way] When I ask about the divorce he says his wife left him for someone else but when I asked why she did this he says he cant remember. Its very odd for such an intelligent man - ihave posed this to him but got no response. This is literally all I know.

He totally idolises his mother and in general does like women [aside from his sister who is he despises so much its hard to comphrehend]

The thing is I just dont think he is a complete b*stard, He is decent and good in so many ways but there is just this side to him I cannot understand and he doesnt seem to understand that when I am crying for hours on end its not for show or to manipulatie him its because I am very very hurt.

OP posts:
PoppyField · 11/05/2015 13:11

Sorry to go on... but like other posters, this is not because you are two alpha people who like to get their own way. This is because there is a nasty, controlling person trying to control you. And he shares your life and lives in your house. He is putting the blame on you, and all the responsibility for making things right, while at the same time totally undermining all your attempts to built a happy family life.

It is not because you are not trying hard enough, it is not a lack of imagination on your part, it is not because you are not 'understanding' him enough. And it is not a failure of communication. I bet you can communicate to every single other person in your working and social life perfectly well. He knows how you feel, he just doesn't care. Shocking isn't it? I think I spent 2 years just being utterly shocked. And then it had to stop. And the only way to stop it was to stop being married to him. It's not what I wanted, but it was about survival. Mine.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/05/2015 13:16

comberbird,

re your comments:-
"I dont think he would hurt me physically at all".

That is because he has not hit you yet. Do not assume that he will not. He can get his way with using verbal violence at present, it may well extend to physical as well.

"Re his first marriage, yes I suspect the same. He mentioned having counselling once [and yes it seems he did charm the counsellor] and he mentioned that counsellor said he needed someone who would stand up to him. He said his ex was a difficult person [he describes me the same way] When I ask about the divorce he says his wife left him for someone else but when I asked why she did this he says he cant remember. Its very odd for such an intelligent man - ihave posed this to him but got no response. This is literally all I know.

He totally idolises his mother and in general does like women [aside from his sister who is he despises so much its hard to comphrehend]"

More red flags there with particular reference to his first marriage. She likely left him for similar reasons to what you are going through now. Such men like your H also are manipulative, can indeed charm counsellors who do not always recognise abuse and say that their ex was also difficult. Note too that you are also now being described by him in the same way.

You are not his therapist therefore you do not have to try and understand him (or even worse try and fix him/this relationship). He acts like this because he feels entitled to do so and also because he can.

His relationship with his sister is also concerning.

You need to get yourself and your son away from him because he will destroy you and he in the end. I do not think for one second that you want your son to be a carbon copy of his father.

Why do you state that he is decent and good; he may well be those things to those in the outside world but behind closed doors he is different isn't he?. He is neither decent or good to you and by turn his child because he abuses you verbally and tries to undermine you at every turn.

MorrisZapp · 11/05/2015 13:23

Your friends think it's all down to stress and you can work through it. I think you probably know deep down that this is fallacy because

a) You haven't told them the full truth of the things he says and does
b) they think you want to hear 'it's not that bad'

I've learned the hard way never ever to suggest a friend ends a relationship unless there is blatant, open abuse going on. You friends are being polite and cautious now but if you told them the full truth and asked for their support in leaving him I bet they'd be fantastic. (And they'd say oh yes we always did think he was an arsehole).

comberbird · 11/05/2015 15:31

i copied my initial post to my three best friends who have all called me. I will talk to them to make sure I am not going mad. My Dad also asked if I wanted him to talk to my husband but I would just think he would view this as interference. thank you for all your supportive comments and I will do the recommending reading and consider what to do

OP posts:
GoatsDoRoam · 11/05/2015 16:36

I am so glad you have reached out to your friends.

cestlavielife · 11/05/2015 22:41

You need to make a plan to leave.
He is classic abusive...telling you your friends don't like you or think you difficult this was a classic from my exp as was getting stroppy if i did housework wrong...

Get away for a few days or weeks and see how it feels .

He made you clan the floor nine months pregnant ??? !!!!

springalong · 11/05/2015 23:02

Poppyfield wrote out my life above much better than I ever could. I separated 4 years ago and the abuse has been continued through the court system. A word of warning - my ex threatened about stopping me having the DC and he is well on the way to achieving that. Not all abusive men just threaten - mine (a professional) has spent a small fortune to achieve that aim.

Glad your friends are being supportive - you will need them.

TendonQueen · 11/05/2015 23:05

It's simpler than you think. He is not being kind to you (at the very, very least) and he makes you unhappy, knows it, and doesn't care. That is enough. Get yourself out of there.

I would start secretly making plans for somewhere else to live and to see a shit hot divorce solicitor (he may be a barrister but a specialist in this area will know how best to protect you in a divorce). I wouldn't try and reason with him about why you want to end it - he will just wear you down. I'd use a neutral line about how you are both unhappy and it's for the best if you separate, and keep repeating just that. Then get your solicitor to deal with the details. Think about life without any of this stress!

BeyonceRiRiMadonna · 11/05/2015 23:05

............6 days before I had my son because he had me cleaning the kitchen floor on my hands and knees because it was dirty

pushing you and your son

I was literally wincing as I read the above OP. OMG!

You yourself say you are an alpha female, alpha females are go getters, strong willed and don't tolerate BS so why are you not standing up to this abusive bully of a man? Why are you not protecting yourself and your son?

For the mere fact you came onto mumsnet and started a thread, you know you need to leave and everything you've posted is by no means trivial!

BeyonceRiRiMadonna · 11/05/2015 23:07

"I dont think he would hurt me physically at all"

It will eventually escalate OP. Please protect yourself and your much wanted child.

BeaufortBelle · 11/05/2015 23:18

OP my husband is alpha and likes his own way. When our eldest was 16 mo we had been through fertility problems and had a beautiful home and charmed life. He's also a barrister and completely and utterly driven. We had some very tough times when the children were infants. We also could always have a laugh and I could tell him to piss off and if he's put a plant pot in a stupid place and I'd criticised and there was a hose nearby he'd have turned it on me and we'd have collapsed in a heap.

Your sort of life can be extremely challenging. But there shoudl also be love and respect.

Leave.

SelfLoathing · 11/05/2015 23:29

In my experience if someone says anything about themselves like "I am generous" or "I am an alpha personality" it is rarely true. Often the oposite is true and it is a form of self protection delusion. By saying the words out loud they are trying to affirm a view of themselves they hold deep and want to affirm desperately but isn't true.

You've several times said "we are both alpha/dominant personality types" but that is not at all what you are describing. You are describing a situation where your partner is utterly dominant and you are subservient and tolerating it.

I wonder whether you are in this class of self-delusion affirming - that the only way you can live with it is to truly believe you too are dominant/alpha when you aren't at all because the real truth of it is too much to bear.

GoatsDoRoam · 12/05/2015 10:08

I thought that too, SelfLoathing, except that I suspect that the OP has been told by people like her husband who dislike it when she expresses her own opinions that she is "dominant" and "alpha", when she is nothing of the sort. As a way of grinding her down and making her feel that her wants and needs are problematic (rather than the legitimate things they are).

comberbird · 12/05/2015 15:23

another example - he says - i held my tongue this evening when you left the gate open from the garden to the steps .... i explained that he didnt need to hold his tongue as he was there with my son looking after him so there was no risk .... why cant someone see that this is totally stupid?

I think I know my own mind. I want things to improve. Part of me thinks they can. He knows he is on his final warning. I cant face the reality of what life would be like alone/ with son/ a divorce/ trying to cope with work. He would be in my life anyway - how could that work? Having no family in the country, having friends that live miles outside London. He would clean me out financially. And I pay for everything because I earn more than him [but he doesnt pay his fair share to be sure]

What am i supposed to do with all my dreams for my family? the second round of IVF that is planned for very soon .....

OP posts:
petalsandstars · 12/05/2015 15:45

See a solicitor ASAP. And make sure you don't pay for everything anymore. Spend your ivf money on a shit hot lawyer!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 12/05/2015 16:11

Are you living the dream just now OP?

Really?

yearofthegoat · 12/05/2015 16:24

OP this all sounds awful. In your heart of hearts do you think bringing another child into this situation is a good idea?

PeppermintCrayon · 12/05/2015 16:27

OP, well done for coming to MN and asking for support. You know, I think, in your heart that this is not okay, but you don't quite believe what you know yet.

The fact that you are not being hit doesn't mean that you are happy, or safe. People aren't generally all good or all bad, but the fact you can see good in him doesn't mean you should let the not-good stuff slide.

This is not trivial. It is sad that you would call "trivial" your need for harmony, caring and respect in your own home. It is not trivial: taking care of yourself is your highest calling.

Exactly this. You and your son deserve better. You can have better.

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