Relationship where women outearn men

[Shuang]

This was prompted by a recent conversation with a friend. Last time we spoke was about two months ago and she was at the sweet exciting honeymoon stage with her new date. But during our recent call she told me it is not going as well at the moment mainly due to the income gap between them. She is older hence more experience in a highly paid industry while he has limited experience in a not so highly paid area.
She is the one who often has to pick up the bill as he is clearly uncomfortable when they went out. According to her they were not really expensive places.
This is also a topic I am personally interested in finding out a bit more about people's experience. If one gets into a situation where a woman significantly outearns a man, is it possible to have a normal dynamic in the relationship?
Any experience or opinions welcomed.

DH and I earn roughly the same and alway have, although I've earned marginally more than him for most of the 20 years we've been together. I think over a long relationship things will fluctuate, especially if the couple make the choice to work different hours, I think that's fine although should be monitored in case one partner feels they are missing on either family or career (there was a thread on here a while ago where the wife was happy with working very part time but her husband wasn't happy because he felt he wasn't getting enough family time).

In a new relationship I think I would be wary of having a relationship with someone who earnt significantly less than me, I'd see it as an indication that we might well have different outlooks on life, rather than being worried about the money itself IYSWIM. But that's a gender free assessment, I think you're more likely to have a successful relationship with a social equal.

i really suspect the issues are to do with incompatibility and/or communication issues not the financial disparity.

i have friends, date people who are way different to me in terms of disposable income etc.

sometimes the guy has had a couple more noughts than me at the end of his income, sometimes i've been breadwinner.

the money itself isn't the issue: it's more attitudes, compatibility.

ideally in caring friendships/dating BOTH parties should be out to make the other as comfortable as they can - i don't mean "give me all yer cash" but reading what makes the other most at ease whilst doing things one likes.

i also think sometimes people can be fairly passive-aggressive where money is concerned? i have some poor(er) friends who will actively suggest nice stuff to do within their income (i do the same myself as I'm a bit skint - walks or art or whatever is all free!)

then again, there are some who will pull faces when the bill comes and do a poor me/alright for some attitude, thus ruining the night for everyone else/their date?

why not just own the social situation, say "this isn't within my budget" when it's organised and suggest a cheaper activity/place rather than using it as an opportunity to play the martyr?

I think it obviously depends on the people involved. My ex hated that I earned more than him, then when I had to stay home with our ds to be his full time carer (due to disability), then my ex made lots of nasty comments about how I wasn't working and he was (although he certainly wasn't willing to stay home and be his carer). It was kind of shit - didn't matter what I did, it was going to be wrong. [hmm[

I'm very old fashioned and always wanted a partner who earned more than me. I have a high income and never wanted to feel that my partner was leeching off me.

That's an interesting perspective, cheers. Out of interest, would you feel that a woman who earns less than her husband was leeching off him too?

I actually felt liberated by my earning power in terms of choosing a partner - I knew that I could earn enough to support myself, and so I didn't feel the need to worry about his earning potential. It's interesting that you felt it restricted your choices, as I felt it opened mine up!!

Out of interest, would you feel that a woman who earns less than her husband was leeching off him too?

Kampeki - did you read the rest of my post? I think it depends - and absolutely there are men who leech off their woman - as indicated in my post. It doesn't follow that it the case in all situations - but there are plenty of situations where it is true. Where do you think the term cocklodger comes from?!?

I know my view is old fashioned but it was how I felt. Partly it was too do with career achievement - I was tired of dating men who felt emasculated by my success. An easy weeding tool was just to date men who were in my ball park or higher earners.

Obviously, what I posted is a bit simplistic because it wasn't like I was asking to see their pay check!! It's probably more about career success and status than money to be honest - but given where I was, it was pretty inevitable a man of the same or higher achivement would be earning more than me. I knew that I had no interest in dating a starving musician or a hospital porter.

Partly, it is because I have quite expensive tastes generally - I enjoy expensive hotels, business class flights, Michelin starred restaurants, opera etc etc. It's a part of life that I derive much pleasure from. I knew that I would want a partner who liked that stuff too and would be able to take me out. I also know that I would have become very resentful if I was always paying.

Ultimately, money is singularly the main cause of marital strife. I definitely wanted someone with the same attitude to money and saving as me and I was lucky I found DH.

It would not bother my DH if I earned more than him. I have done at times. We just pool everything anyway and have done so for 30 years. We have the same attitude to money and neither of us has particularly expensive tastes.

So are women who earn less than men 'leeching'? Are women who earn less than their husbands 'total wimps'? Women who expect a man to pay on a date more than a generation beyond the equal pay act?

Honestly, I have stronger words than 'old fashioned'.

So are women who earn less than men 'leeching'?

Stop jumping to conclusions and try reading what is written. I love it when people jump on the "oooh I'm all indignant" band wagon without reading properly!

Yes of course there are SOME women who are leeching off men - and in some cases, it's kinda why they are there. Think Anna Nicole Smith etc. Do you want to pretend this never happens? Smell the coffee.

Equally, there are plenty of relationships where a disparity in income is not indicative of any relationship imbalance of that kind and there is no suggestion that one partner is taking advantage of the other.

Your constructs are very clear, Medea.

When I first met my wife she earned more than me - I was out of work for a bit, then in a job that paid about half what hers did.
Over the next fifteen years the roles have gradually reversed - now my wife is a SAHM. Our differences in income have never been a problem, especially since we got married and got a joint account. Now it's 'our' money, not money that belongs to just one of us.
If I was in a relationship with someone who worried about differences in income between us I'd get rid of them and move on. It's not all about money.

" a disparity in income is not indicative of any relationship imbalance of that kind"

good point there medea

when i've been dating there are definitely guys who actively seek out poorer women so they can control them more.

like even if they're a financial director or a senior lawyer or whatever, they're exclusively shopping round for a conventionally physically attractive mature student/min wage type so they can have more control (and maybe thinking "low level job = won't challenge them as much").

i imagine it happens the other way round as well.

i think this tends to happen more when people are "intentionally" dating, rather than just meeting naturally.

Like many PPs, my DH and I have alternated as the main earner. Money is not an issue between us and never has been. I think, when dating, you'd only notice a disparity if you went to restaurants regularly. We went to pubs and took turns getting the drinks in, or the theatre or concerts where it seemed quite natural for us each to pay for our own tickets. It's only when a single bill comes in a restaurant, and when the waiter puts it next to the person that he assumes is picking up the whole tab, that it can get a bit awkward.

Honestly I can see why it would be a bit awkward if there was a huge disparity at the start, whoever was earning more. There is cultural baggage associated with the idea that the man should be the provider, of course there is, but even aside from that I can imagine navigating the minefield of where you go and who pays when is difficult if you're on different footings. DH and I met young and for the first couple of years one of us was always potless so the one who had money would pay. Then we lived together as a couple and earned similarly, and since having DD1 I have been part time and earned a lot less. But we were pretty communal with our finances from very early on. So the whole thing has always been pretty easy for us, although I worry about whether I'll feel different when my maternity pay finishes if I don't go back to work straight after (DH won't give a shit). I think it would be more difficult if you were used to having your own money, and perhaps if one had assets too.

the theatre or concerts where it seemed quite natural for us each to pay for our own tickets

Even this could be an issue, if one person suggests getting good seats for the Book of Mormon, and the other could only afford seats up in the gods for Mamma Mia.

Good point Trills. But some of that is to do with compatability anyway -- we wanted to see the same plays; the quality of the seats didn't matter much.

Even this could be an issue, if one person suggests getting good seats for the Book of Mormon, and the other could only afford seats up in the gods for Mamma Mia.

It is a basic truth that money can be a big friction point in any relationship where there is imbalance. It's also true in friendships - for similar reasons to the above. And it cuts both ways. Take two university friends whose paths have diverged - A with a high disposable income and Z who is struggling to make end meet.

For a bit it will be fine - A will from time to time pay for Z so A can do things A enjoys (top price seats in the stalls; opera; Chiltern Firehouse; cocktails at the Savoy etc). A will also try to accommodate Z and go to cheaper places they don' really like but that suits their friend's Z's budget.

After a while, Z starts to feel a massive imbalance - feeling a recipient of charity when A pays and also conscious that the rest of A's social life is on a different level with most of A's friends being in the same income bracket as A. Z may even feel a bit jealous. A on the other hand becomes tired of going to cheap cafes and places they don't like and would never normally go to. And it ends up being a point of friction.

If there is a BIG imbalance in income AND lifestyle choices, it is hard for even friendships to survive. When you add in the overlay of an emotional/romantic relationship, it may become even more problematic. But as I said - a huge part of this is personality and attitude. It varies enormously from case to case.

The Jennifer Aniston film Friends With Money is about this:

www.imdb.com/title/tt0436331/

I dont think that there is an imbalance if both the 'expensive' and 'cheap' date are enjoyed by both people. The problem comes when the wealthy person feels that they are in some way slumming it or the less well off person feels that the expensive places are socially beyond them.

In this case then the problem is not really to do with finances but to do with social attitudes.

I think it's about the quality of your relationship and compatibility of attitude to money.
I earned similar to my XH - separate finances with a joint account for equally split bills only.
But the guy I dated afterwards, until recent... I earned 4x as much, and would happily have just had a joint account.

In a long term relationship now and it's not an issue. Also wasn't an issue when on initial dates. But I had a lot of heartache in turning dates/early stage relationship into long term relationship and I would definitely say being a high earner it contributed to the issues.
It probably was never the single factor but there were many times when I wished I was a teacher/nurse/receptionist/admin rather than pursing a middle management career