GP took DCs to visit NC relatives.... fuming!

[HowYaLikeThemApples]

I've posted before about my in-laws favouring my eldest 2 DC's over my youngest two DC's (always taking the eldest two on days out, sleepovers, etc, but never asking the youngest two).

Well finally this weekend they asked if DC3 would also like to go over. I'm not fussed about DC4 as she's still a bit of a handful so best to stay with me.

So DC1 and DC3 are collected while DC2 and DC4 stay at home with me. I thought they were going back to the in-laws house and would play around there for a while, maybe go down to the local play area. All the stuff the usually do with the DCs, therefore I didn't ask what their plans were.

On returning them that evening I asked DS3 if he had had a nice time, and he said he had been down to the park. Lovely, smiles all around. In-laws go off home.

On speaking to DS3 later on it actually transpired the in-laws had taken them to visit a family member who we have been NC with for the past few years. On leaving this house my in-laws told the DCs not to tell anyone they had been there, so they absolutely knew they were in the wrong.
DS3 said he knew this was strange and apologised for lying when he said he had been to the park, but that the grandparents were standing behind him so he had to lie. He was in floods of tears but I reassured him he had done the right thing by telling me the truth.

My DH is definitely going to speak to them about this over the coming week, but I'm just so angry that they took them somewhere they knew they shouldn't have and then ASKED MY CHILDREN NOT TO TELL ME!

I really don't want to fall out with my in-laws but how do we word this conversation? I need to use some diplomacy but I want to make it clear in no uncertain terms what they have done is wrong!

zipzap I honestly don't know, from memory I don't think the NC relatives have seen DS3 since he was a baby so now I'm wondering if that was the only reason he was asked at all. The GP's invited all three DS's, but DS2 wanted to stay at home with me this time.

It's such an awful situation to put the kids, asking them to not tell anyone (which really just means me and DH doesn't it).

I told DS3 I completely understood why he lied with the GPs standing right behind him. If it happens again, well, there won't be a problem as they'll never have them over unsupervised, ever. Not even sure contact with them would be continued. But yes, more chats to be had with the kids about all of this.

The more I think about it the worse is it actually.

Parents have to tell their children not to lie and not to cover thigns up (other than things mummy and daddy will know about very soon and that are nice, like a birthday present).

We teach children that if anyone touches them inappropriately, they must tell mummy and daddy. That it is bad to keep secrets and do things that they have been told they can't.

Their GPs have undermined all this and have deliberately placed them in a position where the poor kids are going to feel bad and loose out. Very, very mean.

Exactly Meerka, if we decide no more unsupervised visits, it's pretty much telling my DC's that they lose out by telling me the truth!

So I don't know if that's making me feel pressured or not into still allowing unsupervised visits.

I'm also worried the GPs will twist what they said to the kids to try and get themselves off the hook, making my kids look unreliable and me and DH hysterical.

It doesn't matter what the hell they say.

Yes you need to fall out with them.

They asked your kids to lie to you.

There is no respect there, at all, and I would have had it with them.

They should never have them unsupervised again - any of them. There's no need right now for that to be discussed with your DC and for them to be party to what's going on between you. You might want to roast the GPs and decide a bit later whether to allow very controlled contact, and your DC need be none the wiser... But right now, you NEED to tear them a new one - and leave them in no doubt at all that what they've done is relationship-destroying stuff.

Oh, and has it occurred that the REASON they wanted your DC3 is in order for them to be taken for this relative to see?! They've got to see DCs 1 & 2 behind your back, they probably asked the GP to bring no3 for them to have a nosey. So as for DC3 feeling punished... I'd bet a penny to a pound that this would have been the first and last invite for your poor DC3 anyway.

They are utter fuckers.

wow so many bitter people here. I dont get that your children cant see these people even though you have chosen to go NC with them. I dont suppose the people you have went NC with have harmed your kids? why would you restrict what your kids can do when they are with other people - surely the GPs are capable adults and can make sensible decisions of their own when they watch your kid?

I absolutely agree the GPs shouldn't have told your kids to lie but to go as far as going NC with them because of that is, for me, way OTT. In fact I cant ever imagine going NC with someone unless it was something extremely serious like murder, rape or some other abhorrent crime - telling lies wouldn't be included in that list though.

and for the people calling the GPs fuckers - just wow - you all need anger management courses - you all sound absolutely vile.

peggy That's lovely that you can't imagine what would make someone go NC, but there are lots of perfectly valid reasons not to put your children through contact with someone you're NC with. I don't think it's necessary to dig for details, but just trust that the OP hasn't made this decision lightly. Clearly the GP are not capable of making sensible decisions.

I'd say no unsupervised contact for a year and lay the blame at grandparents feet. Make sure kids don't feel responsible for doing the right thing and bring truthful.

Can you reward your children for their truthfulness

I'm also worried the GPs will twist what they said to the kids to try and get themselves off the hook, making my kids look unreliable and me and DH hysterical.

It doesn't matter. You know the truth; they're your children; what you say goes. The GPs aren't owed contact with your children at all if you decide it's not in the children's interests.

Peggy can't you understand it's the deceit involved that is upsetting the OP. The GPs knew the parents would not approve do instructed to dcs to lie
Parents have ultimate responsibility in their own children's upbringing and if they do not want the children having contact with anyone, that choice must be respected.

I'm also worried the GPs will twist what they said to the kids to try and get themselves off the hook, making my kids look unreliable and me and DH hysterical.

If there is a real danger of this - you've got bigger problems than 'just' the lie and taking them to see a NC relative. A lot bigger. Manipulative people are dangerous.

Regarding the children feeling they punished for tellign the truth, I think you can reassure them that this is not the case, but that what has happened is bigger than them. That this is unfortunate, but when people, GP or anyone else, make other people lie for them then this is a very big problem and they need to say Sorry and you need to be able trust them before they can see you unsupervised again.

Don't forget that the childrens' GP have put YOU in the position here of having to look like the bad ones. That in itself is pretty bloody nasty.

peggy accepting that two adults deliberately crossed the parental wishes and got their children to lie to them ... Well. sensible adults don't make their grandchildren lie to their parents in front of their faces. That's kind of cruel, you know? Dishonest in the extreme. No one decent does that. Honesty and truthfulness matters, you know?

peggy DH and I did not come to this decision lightly and I will not be including the details in this thread concerning the reasons for NC.

I don't believe I have said anywhere we wish to go NC with the grandparents. My decision is whether to only allow supervised visits from now on, or be extremely clear they are never to take OUR children to the NC relatives again. And never to ask our children to lie to us. Ever.

Can you trust them if they say they will respect your wishes?

By definition they are not the most reliable of people.

The fact they excluded ds3 for so long is so bitchy anyway. I would have refused access to any of my dcs on those grounds alone.

I would think so Meerka, but I'm honestly not sure. Now that we've had to speak to the DCs about their GPs asking them to lie and telling them how wrong it was of them to do that, I don't see how they could get away with it again as the kids 100% know they should tell us.

winkywikola yes, that was actually a whole other thread a few months back.

"God yest Miggsie, disappointed too. It's an awkward relationship with them, we've never really gelled to be honest and I find visits quite hard work. But visit weekly we do, because I was my kids to have a good relationship with their GPs".

Oh dear, you have fallen into the trap of societal convention. Societal convention as a reason is simply not good enough and you've been far too accommodating and reasonable. Such people purely act in their own self interest; not yours and certainly not your childrens. Your children need decent and positive grandparent role models, not people who simply cannot be trusted and actively ask your children to lie to you as their mother!. Not all grandparents are nice and loving.

Its hard when you have likely come from a family which is emotionally healthy yourself and you have likely not come across this type of familial dysfunction before. This is all about power and control ultimately

His parents are also likely behaving in the same manners as they did when your own H was a child.

You have had problems with the inlaws previously; this is yet more of the same and they have no compunction whatsoever about your children seeing another family member that you are yourself not in contact with. You will continue to have problems with them unless you as a couple put up a united front to his parents and not allow your children to be at all used in such a manner. They were used to his parents own ends. Certainly you at the very least now need to raise your previously all too low boundaries which your inlaws have also exploited. At the very least none of your children should now have any contact with your DHs parents.

I would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics.

There's just so much wrong with what they did. Getting your DCs to lie to you is right up there for the most unacceptable things to do.

The pain with families is that you still have to deal with people who behave so shoddily whether you like it or not. Do you think your DH will be able to get through to them?

Apples

re your comment:-
"My decision is whether to only allow supervised visits from now on, or be extremely clear they are never to take OUR children to the NC relatives again".

Behaviour like this should not be tolerated or rewarded. They have had a further chance and they blew it big time.

You are again being far too reasonable and nice here to people who have basically acted in their own self interest and certainly not yours or your childrens.

You have not been at all able to trust your inlaws in the past with your children, its no different now. Their favouritism of your eldest two should never have been at all tolerated, that in itself was and is a deal breaker.

You have a choice; you do not have to deal at all with people who treat you so shoddily and that includes relatives on either side of the family.

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different and family are not binding.

"Certainly you at the very least now need to raise your previously all too low boundaries which your inlaws have also exploited"

That hurt Attila.

Apples,

I am sorry you feel hurt by my comment and for that I am truly sorry. Your inlaws have however, caused all this to arise by their actions.

They have indeed exploited you all as a couple and family unit to their own ends. You now know differently. It is really difficult for people who have come from emotionally healthy and functional families to see that people can act in such a manner, its incomprehensible really but often such things are about power and control. Your inlaws have acted really shoddily here and they have certainly only acted in their own self interest to boot.

Thanks Atilla.

We do feel completely exploited and betrayed, something my own side of the family would never consider doing. Their actions over the weekend have shown exactly what they think of me and DH. We will not be allowing them to manipulate us again.