Do you think less of someone if they stick up for themselves?

[mushrooomss]

I have always struggled to stick up for myself in horrible situations.

At school many years ago I had a very controlling best friend and was bullied by lots of others (I think so called best friend had a hand in others being nasty about me, but that's another story). Whenever I tried to stand up for myself, my best friend would lecture me about how they were her friends as well as me, and that if I said anything back then she would have to re-think our friendship as she refused to play piggy in the middle. I was terrified of being friend-less so lamely accepted any bullying inflicted on me.

Now I'm in my mid thirties, I still find it very hard to stand up for myself whenever anyone has behaved badly towards me, and I feel that if I did it would put people that do like me off me.

A couple of years ago I went away on a hen weekend. Two women on the weekend took a dislike to me and spent the weekend being quite vile towards me. However each time I spoke up for myself and told them to stop it, others would just tell me to leave it. It reminded me of being at school so I just went home and have never spoken to anyone from that weekend since.

Recently an acquaintance on my facebook friends has started to be quite antagonistic towards me on my statuses and not that nice. One day she said something awful and so I de-friended her, and then within minutes got a message from a mutual friend asking why I had defriended this woman and saying not to say or do anything back to this woman as this woman was quite feisty.

Every time I try to defend myself I feel like someone else nips it in the bud, and that I will lose other friends and lose respect from people if I defend myself.

I'm not good at standing up for myself.
But I would respect you for standing up for yourself.

I think there can be ripples among friendship groups when people disagree, but that is no reason for you to be a doormat. I'm sure some of your friends would choose to stand by you, even if other preferred to remain cowed.

These people are preserving their own friendships and power. Ignore and do what you believe is right.

I don't think less of anyone who stands up for themselves by being reasonably assertive. I do think less of people who are aggressive, or needlessly unpleasant, but that doesn't sound like you.

It is REALLY hard to learn to stand up for yourself when you've had controlling friendships or relationships in the past. It can feel like your boundaries aren't quite in the right place and there's something happening on a deeper level. When you're anxious about standing up for yourself, and feeling like you're going to get a bad reaction, people can pick up on that.

I wonder if you have ever tried counselling? I know it is other people hurting you, and I'm not saying you need counselling because it's your fault - it's not! But counselling may help you to acquire those missing boundaries, and to find more respect within yourself, so maybe it's worth a try?

Standing up for yourself weeds out the crap from your life.

If the only way you can keep certain people in your life is by being a doormat then they aren't keepers.

What I'm wondering is why you end up needing to stand up for yourself so often. I'm assertive but it's very rare that I need to stand up for myself because I get on very well with the people around me. So what's going wrong?
Do you tend to be friends with not very nice people? Or are you reading signals wrong and seeing/creating conflict where there is none? With the hen night example, given that it's someone else's special event and you wouldn't have to socialise with those women again, the best approach IMO would have been to ignore them rather than to kick up a fuss.

Being aggressive and being assertive are two different things.

I stand up for myself, i stand up for others and my friends stand up for themselves. Perhaps i just like people who are not afraid. My best friends have been the ones i can argue relentlessly with and it is forgotten as an argument because we are friends. I am the person who strides down the street after UKIP have put a leaflet through my door telling them to have a word with themselves and to get a life because yada yada yada. I do not want their poison through my door. None of it with aggression, point scoring or without reasoning.

Two women on the weekend took a dislike to me and spent the weekend being quite vile towards me. However each time I spoke up for myself and told them to stop it, others would just tell me to leave it.

Who are these people that you know?

I've never known an adult to decide to be "vile" towards someone they've just met, when they are the guests of a mutual friend.

The only reason I can imagine your friends telling you to "leave it", would be if they were worried you would make a huge scene (or start a physical fight).

When I was growing up I was bullied a bit and never stood up for myself.

I moved around alot so in a few situations new people tried to bully me. I am also not a fighter. Never hit anything in my life, never will. One day, at a newish school - the main bully decided they were going to fight me. I ended up in a huge circle with them stood 3 feet away rolling up their sleeves. I was about 14 at the time. There were at least 50 people all round me, it was between the youth hall and the back of the gym - no teachers anywhere to be seen. I just shook my head, and walked away.

It was unheard of to walk away from a fight - you either just let yourself get pummelled or joined in. I just walked through the 'crowd' and went to sit for my next lesson. The bully didn't follow me, just stood there.

I never had trouble at that school again. All that afternoon I had people saying 'I can't believe you just - walked away!'. I shrugged my shoulders alot that day. But - I never got any grief in that school again. I believe I got 'kudos' for walking away.

As others have suggested, I think what is happening is that you're "attracting" the wrong sort of people to you, who are then walking all over you. Should you then attempt to assert yourself, they will beat you relentlessly back down because they like you just where you started - as their doormat.

Can I ask how your relationship with your parents and/or siblings is? Are they supportive and nurturing or do they also put you at the bottom of the pile?

I am sorry to say I think a little bit less of people who don't assert themselves

It's a fault of mine, I admit

Always stand up for yourself as you cannot rely on others to do so.

I have to say I'm with AF on this one. I hate seeing people not stick up for themselves and always wonder why they don't.

I do 'pick' my battles so to speak, but when I feel I need to, I will defend myself. If anyone has a problem with this, I'm not interested in their opinion.

I am definitely in the stand up for yourself school. I was reared to avoid confrontation and walk away, to rely on my inner knowledge that I was right without the need to impress that on someone else.

Over the years that led to some seriously crap treatment because IME people can't distinguish between keeping your own counsel and weakness. I don't let anything go now. If it is important enough to bug me it is important enough for me to take the point on.

I always stand up for myself and will speak up if I disagree. I was bullied right through school and my "friends" used to snigger at the comments made. I was shy and voiceless and thought if I spoke back it would make it worse. It was horrible and I won't be treated like that again. I wouldn't think less of someone for speaking up unless they're taking it too far and trying to pick a fight

I have a friend who was bullied at school and as an adult is very conscious of perceived slights and determined to stick up for herself. Unfortunately she has such a negative mindset that she perceives slights where there are none and consequently she is widely regarded as difficult. Which of course feeds into her negativity. It's a vicious circle and she is not a happy person.

OP, only arseholes think less of people who stick up for themselves (if you mean just refusing to tolerate being treated badly). It sounds to me like you do not expect to be treated well or respectfully, and don't actually exercise any quality control on the people you spend time with. It sounds like you would put up will all sorts of shit just to be included.

I used to have similar very poor boundaries, but then I had a look around and realised that all the popular people did expect to be treated well, and reacted when they were not. I still have to remind myself sometimes, but I make a point of not allowing people to treat me badly (even if I just say 'that was a really unpleasant thing to do/say', my own long-standing (less PA) version of the MN classic 'did you mean to be so rude?')

The thing you have to remember is that not everyone will like you. No matter what you do, some people (nice people and less nice people) will just not want to interact with you. This is not because of something you have done. It is just the way things are.

Watch the film Muriel's Wedding. Learn.

Muriel's Wedding is a great film

Occasionally people seem afraid of rocking the boat if anyone challenges a person or group's behaviour. Their mantra is "Don't stick your head above the parapet" and worry you make yourself a target or that your actions somehow reflect badly on them.

At such times you weigh up what matters to you and if you are unhappy why not deal with it. The rest can follow like sheep or stop and think, "Hey Mushroomss has a good point, she's right!" You just need more practice to gain confidence.

I get frustrated with people who won't stick up for themselves either. Though I've become gentler over the years as I realise how beaten down some people become.

But I respect people who stand up for themselves in an assertive way (and will listen to other peoples' pov with it).

A lot of people hate the status quo changing, mushroomss. Especially if that threatens their own comfortable getting-along.

Maybe you do somehow build friendships with people who treat you like doormats but it's a damn good thing that you don't put up with it forever.

Flexible assertiveness is good.

I'm all for people that stand up for themselves. I do think that this happens to you so regularly that I wonder if you're doing something to upset/offend people without realising?

It depends how someone 'sticks up for themselves'. If someone is calm and assertive and reasonable, then fine. I will happily discuss the issue. If the person is the type who thinks 'sticking up for themselves' involves shouting and hurling insults then yes, I would think less of them. Some people confuse assertive and aggressive.

I think you are describing people who want to walk over others unchallenged, and people who are total wet blankets with a peace at all costs mentality.

It's amazing how many people would prefer to bend over and get pounded rather than tell an unreasonable person they are unreasonable. And what's worse, expect others to also bend over! oooh, we must all allow this person to be mean otherwise there will be a scene

Well, so what if there is? Shits become and remain shits because of all the doormats who bend over and take it up the arse.

You aren't doing anything wrong by saying what you will not accept and demanding to be treated with courtesy. Anyone who wants to spit out their dummy cos they want to treat you like or see you treated like crap is not someone you want in your life.

sums it up beautifully fenella!

I think it seems to happen to you a lot from what you say in your OP. Do you have a good friend who you could discuss this with? Maybe she could give you some feedback on what is going on here.