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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What the fuck is love?

55 replies

listeningtomyheartorhead · 11/04/2015 16:49

I dont mean in the philosophical, airy, fairy sort of way. I mean what does it look like practically. I feel so confused sometimes that my idea of what love is has been so messed up by romantic films and novels. I just feel constantly let down. All the people in my life that I love from my family members to my dc to my partner I both love and hate intensely at the same time some more than others (e.g. definitely love my kids more than the instances where I sometimes feel hatred towards them but my dad probably the other way round). Is that normal? I just want to hear others perspectives so I can see whether its me with the high expectations.

OP posts:
aeon456 · 12/04/2015 03:02

For me it's about mutual respect and care.

tulipbulbs · 12/04/2015 16:57

It has respect as a foundation. But, it needs to be respect with an edge - you need that extra bit of grá (love). So, that even when he is annoying the hell out of you, he can still ultimately, make you shiver.
Read Raymond Carver "what do we talk about, when we talk about love", it's really interesting: 2 couples are sitting and drinking vodka and talking about people they used to love, until you wonder, what is love? - is it now or was it then or is it at all?

Dowser · 12/04/2015 17:03

I'm in the same camp as vivica, skipton lass and joys mum.

My two pennorth.

It's easy.

You don't have to work at it because it just is.

It's really how it should be.

trackrBird · 12/04/2015 17:21

Is the idea of a soulmate, someone who totally understands you, is devoted to you and whose number one priority is making you happy just unrealistic.

Yes and no. Can someone love you very dearly, understand you, and want to make you happy? Of course!

Can someone totally understand you, be devoted to you, and their number one priority be making you happy....well you're talking extremes there. Taking the words literally, it's asking rather a lot of one human being, especially for an extended period of time.

We never 100% understand another human - even our own children. We may be devoted to someone and their happiness, but we must pursue our own happiness too, at the same time. Surely it would be uncomfortable to have someone slavishly attached to us, wanting nothing but our happiness and thinking of little else? . :)

So there are no fairy tales (and if you ever think you are living in one, something is wrong. ) None of us live in a novel, either. But plenty of us love and are loved in return, romantically or otherwise.

confusedoflondon · 12/04/2015 19:04

It a when you want to treat you OH the same way you treat your mates. With the same respect and level of thought and the same level of cutting them slack when they're not perfect. It's effortless and steady and just exists without question. It's always believing the best of that person. Giving them the benefit of the doubt unless and until they prove they otherwise and its letting them be who they are not who you think you should have.

blueberrypie0112 · 12/04/2015 19:09

"When i think
"i think of this
its patient
kind
not envious
not boasting
puts others first
not self seeking
Shame its not like that anymore."

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

from the Bible :)

Hathall · 12/04/2015 19:16

I think it's just a deep genuine caring about someone.
You always want the best for them. Not just right here and now but for their future too.
I don't think it's necessarily putting them first as you can love many people.
You want them to be happy. If there's something you can do to make them happy then you do.
You don't become a doormat because they should want the same for you.

BertieBotts · 12/04/2015 19:52

Soulmate - depends on your definition really. I don't think I can answer this as I don't believe in the concept of soulmates.

Someone who totally understands you - impossible I reckon. Two people are so different that it's not realistic to expect somebody to understand you all the time. But love/a healthy relationship looks like somebody who is patient, who apologises when they get it wrong, who listens to your point of view, who either tries to understand you or just accepts you as you are without trying to work you out all the time. Understanding each other's communication style/attempts, and knowing what makes the other tick is pretty key, I think. But you don't have to know what's going on inside your partner's head all the time, and it's inevitable that you will clash occasionally, I don't think that means there is a lack of love or something wrong, as long as it's not happening all the time.

Is devoted to you - So going by the dictionary definition of "devote". "1. give all or most of one's time or resources to (a person or activity)." Hmm, at first I was going to say no but on second thoughts, I think fairly true. Especially in a family sense. Of course one should retain a sense of self within a relationship and individual activities are important, but if you look at something like work - it's possible for work to be something which supports the relationship/family (financially, by building a person's status in the community, gaining skills which contribute to family life, being admirable and respectable to your partner, etc) or something which drains from the relationship/family (a business which is losing money, working so many hours they have no time for the relationship, an extremely stressful job which has repercussions, work which makes the person so unhappy they are unpleasant to be around, etc). Of course in real life it's not as black and white as that, but yes the net result should be that most of a person's resources and time ought to be going into the relationship, with a smaller proportion of resources and/or time devoted to other people or for purely selfish pursuits. Which should also be a natural state for them, BTW, a natural choice which benefits them as well as you, a sense that what benefits both of you is aligned. If a relationship is totally draining a person, then they're not in a healthy relationship. So it needs to be that spending that time is both what the person wants and what benefits the relationship without martyring or thinking "Oh I should do this because it's best". If that makes sense.

And whose number one priority is making you happy - again, I think it could fall along the same lines. I was going to say that happiness is a bit of a flimsy priority when really an adult's priorities ought to be more substantial things like keeping food on the table, a roof over your heads, preventing illness or injury by following hygiene and safety, etc, but then I realised it's similar to my last point - that all of these things, food, childcare, financial support, cleaning, healthcare, do all contribute to a partner's happiness because to not pay attention to them would damage their happiness. So yes I think the family's or partner's happiness should be more of a priority than somebody outside the relationship's happiness, or their own happiness if it doesn't align. I was reading this thinking ooh, I don't think that I do particularly try to make DH happy very often, but then I realised that most of the things which are priorities for me because they make me happy or prevent unhappinss (looking after DS so that DS is happy/cared for, working to bring money and increase my own confidence etc, buying and cooking food that I like, making our living space look nice) also make DH happy/prevent his unhappiness and often I'll extend what I would naturally do for myself to cover him as well (washing his clothes as well as mine, tidying shared living spaces, cooking for him, etc) - nothing particularly romantic or groundbreaking or unexpected, just ordinary things but they do contribute to his happiness. And I'm not really thinking about these things, I just do them. Then there are the other unconscious happy-making things - supporting somebody emotionally, noticing when they've had a hard day and trying to do something for them, seeing something they would find funny so sending them a quick text, sex, saying welcome home and how was your day, asking after things they have told you, etc etc. Then there are conscious romantic gestures on top, which are rarer but still happen.

And just to add my own thoughts. For me love feels like safety and security. It's a safe place where I don't have to hide my real self or feel worried about being judged. Yes I occasionally have to watch my words or catch myself. It's about feeling appreciated and appreciating a person's contribution to my life, feeling that it's valuable, that I would be lacking something if he went away. It's about two people living life in a sort of Y shape, or perhaps two Ys, one upside down on top of the normal one. There's a part of life which is totally shared with shared dreams, shared wishes, shared happiness, shared priorities, and the work you both put into this part affects the other positively, and then you go apart and do your own thing which doesn't benefit the other directly but which makes you richer so you can bring even more life and newness into the relationship, and you can discover all of the life and newness that they are bringing too.

BertieBotts · 12/04/2015 19:55

I think that in love you should expect to understand your partner about as well as an English person understands American English and vice versa. Essentially there are no issues but occasionally you'll come up against a tomayto/tomahto situation and there might be a problem. But because you mainly speak the same language you can quickly work it out.

cailindana · 12/04/2015 20:01

It's seeing your best self in someone else's eyes.

Faithless · 12/04/2015 20:26

I agree with the poster who said "love is pragmatic'. I remember towards the end of my previous relationship going to visit my friend who lives abroad. She was making a bed up for me, we were chatting and her DH walked in, they put the duvet cover on the duvet I was going to use in perfect synchronicity, effortlessly,whilst chatting away about something totally different. It was like watching Torvill and Dean (apologies younger MNers). I was silently touched at their closeness and knew that incident would never happen with my partner at the time, he would watch me struggle on. It would be my friend who was staying, my job.
I tried to get him to help me put a duvet cover on when I got back as a test and he told me to stop being so needy. It was the final nail ... I fell out of love with him at the point (on the back of years of a shitload of other suff, btw).
Fast forward a few years, we split up and I met DP. After about 3 months,I was putting the duvet cover back on before we went to bed. He waked upstairs, saw me and said "that's a 2 man job" , goth old of the other side of the sheets and cracked on without a second thought. I flashed back to my stay with abroad friend and fell in love with him at that moment. That duvet cover saw some action that night Grin. 18 months later he has proved to be the kindest, most loving man I've ever come across.
So I'm still not sure what love is, but it needs to pass the duvet cover test Smile

confusedoflondon · 12/04/2015 20:29

Cute Faithless Smile

BertieBotts · 12/04/2015 20:33

Yes! Faithless, I love that story :)

My mum told me that I should only marry a man who would hold grapes up for me to eat, like a Roman emperor. What bollocks! Confused I'm pretty sure XP did actually hold grapes for me one time when we were first together because I asked him, he was into that whole "treating you like a princess" thing and turned out to be a total twat who didn't see me as an actual person. DH would never hold grapes except perhaps for a joke. But he did, indeed, help me put a duvet cover on the other week, when we saw the video of the swiss roll method. We had a laugh doing it. XP would never have even thought of it, much less laughed with me about anything.

pocketsaviour · 12/04/2015 20:38

Funny you say about duvet covers.

When I met my last partner, after a couple of months I went to stay at his for the weekend. He had recently moved into a new flat without taking more than 1 day off work, and his job was very stressful. In short he was knackered.

While he was watching TV I went into the bedroom and saw he hadn't made the bed, had just left the sheets and cover lying on the bed. So I made it up. I went back onto the lounge without saying anything.

An hour or so later he said "god I'm tired. Bed time? Oh no... I didn't put the cover on." I said "I did it, its all ready."

He looked at me with genuine tears in his eyes and said "that's the nicest thing anyone's done for me in months."

Unfortunately he turned out to be a major cock, so there was probably a reason for that Grin

blueberrypie0112 · 12/04/2015 21:21

.

What the fuck is love?
Cretaceous · 12/04/2015 21:41

I think when you first start going out, it's romantic meals out and hot sex. When you have children, it's someone doing (more than!) their share of chores. (Which is why Faithless's duvet test works so well.)

Meerka · 16/04/2015 15:22

blueberry husband and I had an awful row the other day. That's the perfect pic! thank you!

AccordingtoSteve · 16/04/2015 17:57

faithless I loved that story Flowers

No duvet cover story of my own either, we took turns, he started to not bother so I did it most of the time...angry and resentful Sad

I shall always remember that though, so lovely, thank you for sharing

Slowtrain2dawn · 16/04/2015 18:16

I have been with DH 25 years. Since I was 18 and our love was passionate and fraught with the love / hate thing. We have grown up together and learnt the true meaning of love. We respect each other. We support each other but aren't afraid to be challenging if we are unhappy. We listen. And we don't depend on the other too much for our mood/ self esteem. We are separate people but a partnership too. It has been a difficult place to get to. There have been times when I thought we wouldn't make it, but one of us has always been prepared to change or make that extra effort to put things right. And I still fancy him, which helps Smile For me, this is love.

Christinayangstwistedsister · 16/04/2015 18:25

I have known dh since I was 12, we have been through a tough time in the last couple of years but he is still the first person I want to speak to when something has happened

It's the little things, without fail, he always kisses me when I am in bed at night and tells me he loves me...even if I am angry with him. From the day I found out I was pregnant with out ds he changed to to I love you both

Oh and I am a total pain in the arse and he still adores me Grin

despicableshe · 16/04/2015 19:24

I'd add being good friends as a basis. You should be able to confide in them about anything and vice versa without fear of reprisal.

LeBearPolar · 16/04/2015 19:36

he is still the first person I want to speak to when something has happened

This.

stevienickstophat · 16/04/2015 19:54

"He changed to I love you both"

That's lovely.

listeningtomyheartorhead · 17/04/2015 15:29

Thanks for all the lovely replies. They have given me a lot to think over. I love the duvet test too. However if someone fails does that mean they don't love you? One of the people i love most is my dm however whenever i go to visit her i really have to take care not to sit back and let her do everything. She expresses love for others by taking care of them but i know she does get tired too and need a hand but its really easy to relax and let her make the tea rather than do it myself. Do you have to pass it everytimeMy husband would probably fail the duvet test the majority of the time but if im honest so would i. I wouldn't say no if dh asked but he definitely would have to ask as would i. We operate by dividing tasks between us and though i have to say i probably do more i wouldnt like to do the tasks that he does.

My problem is i think with expression. I love the whole grand romantic gestures but my dh is not that sort. We recently had a wedding anniversary which i made a huge effort for. Dh got me nothing and didnt really do anything out of the ordinary for me to mark it. From past experience i knew he wouldnt and i told myself it didnt matter because I enjoy it however a small part of me was hurt and i thought he should be making this effort not me and I dont know whether to take that seriously or not.

OP posts:
LovesPeace · 17/04/2015 16:59

Warning - bitter

'I love you' is what men say to get you to do things for them.