Wondering is it worth it? Do I just give up?

[soph252]

Ok so I'll admit I am feeling a bit hormonal so please bear with my ramblings. I am a woman in my mid-thirties in a happy relationship but having major major doubts, everything I believed in has just been rocked.

I have had previous relationships, nothing out of the ordinary- some ending badly / cheating etc and some just dying out.

I had my son 10 years ago became single and had stayed that way for over 8 years, felt content and have great friends and family, wasn't particularly looking for a partner. Lots of my single friends started on dating sites and it seemed like fun plus I had just started to think maybe I should make a bit of effort unless I wanted to be single forever and I do think aslong as its a good relationship it would be nice and do have the desire for another child, a family. But it was going to take someone really special to make me go for it.

Long story short - met a man who has treated me from day one like I dreamed of being treated, best friend, all my friends think I'm so lucky! Been together a year and a half. We only see eachother at weekends but message and talk lots. He seemed like someone who loves me and I thought I could trust. My son and him get on great too. All wonderful, until he lied to me about silly little things. I don't do lies. I have been honest and faithful and expect nothing less. Plus it just shocked me because I just didn't believe he was like that. We had discussed it and agreed we could get through anything as long as there was trust and honestly. He talks of moving in, having a baby, marriage and still treats me like a princess. Then I find out he sent a couple of messages to a girl at his work, she messaged first and nothing too dodgy just a bit flirty. He assures me he was not interested at all and wants to do anything he can to prove he just wants me and apart from this I have no doubts he is telling the truth.

But and this is the massive stumbling block I am struggling, I feel scared now and just completely side-lined by it- just didn't think he would do this just by the way he seems so devoted to me.

I know I'm not the most stunning but not unattractive, always get lots of male attention but I guess have always wondered why. I don't feel attractive, I'm slim, average looking struggling with grey roots and just feel like maybe I'm just not good enough to have someone who loves me, maybe I should duck out now as I just now think I thought it was all there, my confidence has just crumbled though.

Not helped by the fact that within the last few months 2 of my friends relationships have ended and 2 friends cheated on. I am wondering 1 - are there really any men out there who can be devoted to one person and faithful & 2- why do I feel like I will never have that - I thought I'd found him and now having major doubts. Even doubting myself. I was a confident woman who felt attractive before this and felt I deserved a decent man. Not sure what I'm looking for really - words of wisdom from you lovely ladies, a bit of perspective and a kick up the bottom ?

Then I find out he sent a couple of messages to a girl at his work, she messaged first and nothing too dodgy just a bit flirty

Does he normally have a flirtatious style with women (aside from you obvs), or is this very different to his normal texting style?

Why do you only see each other at weekends, do you live far apart?

I will say that it's easy to appear devoted to someone you only spend two out of every 7 days with...

are there really any men out there who can be devoted to one person and faithful

In my personal experience, no. Every man I've had a relationship with has cheated, or tried to cheat. I'm not saying there aren't faithful men out there, but IME they're in the minority.

A year and a half and you are already having doubts, doesn't bode well to be honest, and yes, why only see each other at weekends? Only you know if he is worth giving another chance to.

And unless he is Brad Pitt don't ever let any man (inc Brad) make you feel unworthy, love yourself, you don't need a man to validate anything about you.

are there really any men out there who can be devoted to one person and faithful

Yes there are, they are probably in the minority though. I think generally men in the 30s are more likely to be faithful because they have different priorities. Men in the 40s who have been through marriage/children revert to their 20s attitude and if anything seem less reliable.

Flirting

I'm 40, and in my short life I have seen a complete cultural shift in this. Years ago the milkman flirted, the builders whistled, guys slapped your bum at the bar, men chatted you up, men and women spoke to each other, the mechanic gave you freebies and generally the world was a happier more friendlier place. Now, we have electronic media, 24 hr access to porn, phones glued to our faces that prevent real interaction and we leave a trail of proof. We can check online activity and texts. We are increasingly suspicious.

Monogamy is a cult, at the same rate at which cheating and playing around has grown in normality, so has the desire, the belief and status of monogamy. Except it isn't the reality in terms of actual cheating because people always have, it's just our perceptions have changed.

Self esteem, we hear it all the time, work on yourself, love thy self...but this is all part of the same evil. We are naturally gregarious social creatures. Hegel (philosopher) had it when he said that we realise ourselves through realising others. We respect them and in doing so respect ourselves. So, I guess what I am saying is this, you are the sum and total of how others treat you, you will feel how they make you feel. There is no escaping it, unless you choose to walk away.

Ok well weekends only as he lives too far to just pop up for the evening after work, plans to move in later on in the year.

Devoted to me as in, messages in the morning and throughout the day, calls in the evenings, invites me out with his friends & family and to his too, wants me to be part of his life. Comes every weekend, sometimes at the expense of other invites with friends etc. 2 holidays this year he has booked and paid for and is super excited about - all he talks about is us and wanting all these things in the future. Hard to explain but friends and family, mine and his all think he is head over heels with me and that I would be silly to doubt him.

The last bit of your message is disappointing - I guess I feel I know I can be honest, faithful and decent and I guess we all expect others can be the same. Hope anyway!

I don't doubt my feelings for him or my ability to be a good partner, I don't even doubt his feelings for me to be honest. Just whether or not he can be who he seems and I should trust him and see where it takes us. I want to but I am told lots that I have a kind nature and am too forgiving, diplomatic etc. I felt confident and content before this, but just not sure why it has knocked me so much. I think it's because of all of the other hurt that has gone on around me with friends and the feeling that I thought he was one of the good ones. I still do but lies aren't good enough for me & I guess there's a fear within me to give more of myself only to be hurt. I don't deserve it and am worth more, but I don't want to let my friends experiences and a couple of little things take all our hopes and dreams away either.

What lies has has he told ?

Ballerina's right, what sort of lies has he told? Are they all on the subject of his involvements with other women, or is it different stuff?

Minitheminx - love the last para of your message. When I'm not feeling so hormonal ( ) I am pretty sure of myself, my boundaries what I deserve, how to treat others and my expectations when it comes to relationships and life in general. I treat others how I expect to be treated and therefore do have pretty high expectations. My rational mind is great, however chuck a few emotions in and I weaken and have a heart/ mind battle - think that's where I am now. With the extra ' you'd be crazy to give up what you've got/ he loves you so much' stuff chucked in from friends. I want to just go with that theory and relax go with our relationship and future plans and just enjoy it and see where it takes us, but I now have fear - which we all know is always irrational

What sort of lies? Can you say? I was with someone like this, lovely etc. But I found out some lies early on.

I stayed with him for way too long and I wish I had been less forgiving. He was pretty good at keeping me dangling too.

The lies without outing myself are things like, having a day off work to help his mum with something and lying to me about it because apparently he thought id disapprove based on his experiences with exs. Um! Another little financial thing. All silly and I've told him from the start not to judge me by his exs issues. I'm of the opinion that there is no need for lies, they no matter how small destroy trust. I wouldn't have given him a hard time over little things like that. I'm not here to make his life harder- just add to it. I'm not the nagging girlfriend and don't want to be treated that way. I am open with him and don't see any other way to be. He's my best friend!

....Devoted to me as in, messages in the morning and throughout the day, calls in the evenings, invites me out with his friends & family and to his too, wants me to be part of his life. Comes every weekend, sometimes at the expense of other invites with friends etc. 2 holidays this year he has booked and paid for and is super excited about - all he talks about is us and wanting all these things in the future. Hard to explain but friends and family, mine and his all think he is head over heels with me and that I would be silly to doubt him....

Except he lies.

Lies.

It's not you who is the problem, soph - it's him.

I would say exercise caution. Keep an eye on it for say a couple of months and then decide.

I wish I had not wasted my time. He would say things like "if I am allowed" if he was going somewhere. He portrayed his ex as the bitch from hell. Now she has my sympathy!

I think "nice" men can cause as much heartache as the out and out cads but they are harder to fathom.

What did the texts with his colleague say exactly?

The lying thing is odd and unacceptable.

You've made it clear it's unacceptable. So next time you catch him out perhaps it's then he needs to be binned. He knows you won't have it and if he still does it then game over.

That's sort of what I'm thinking- go with it and see where we are in a couple of months time. Ironically the little lies have all been about things he thought would disappoint me and he tries so hard to be everything I could ever want. I told him though that nothing disappoints me more than being lied to. I think maybe he feels that he is not enough, so is trying to appear perfect and not disappoint me. so I'm showing him and telling him he is more than enough if he can just be honest.

Good luck Soph. You sound lovely and deserve a man who does not lie to you. Its a fundamental really.

Have you met his friends and family?
Have you spent many weekends at his?
How far away does he live?

In answer to your Qs

1. Yes some men do stay faithful
2. If the man you are with can lie over stupid little things, in time he really doesn't look like he will hesitate to lie over bigger matters. This is who he is but it shouldn't mean (a) you have to tolerate this and (b) won't meet someone better!

It isn't apparent from the word go a person is wholly trustworthy. You are always going to have to begin a relationship by trusting to some extent because the alternative is to get defensive and erect a wall around yourself and never get close to anybody.

Only you know how high your standards are, we all hope to meet someone who shares our values. What complicates things is that the very person who is economical with the truth or lives by their own wonky code is often drawn to a good straightforward open individual.

I think the best any of us can do is to be true to ourselves and not let someone treat us any less well than we treat them.

Thank you allafafumble!!

He wants me to go to his more than I do he normally comes here. I go to his and have met his mum. Brother etc and some friends. He is really keen for me to meet other friends, most of which are couples and they always invite me with him. We have 3 get togethers with diff friends of his planned over the coming weeks. Tbh I haven't made enough effort in that department and have just let him make the effort to come here mostly. He lives about an hour away. It is manageable in the evenings but he works an hour away from his home so it would mean a long way and I have my boy so can't just go to his of an evening. I really appreciate all of your replies- thank you!

I agree, you sound lovely and grounded. I agree too that sometimes "nice" men can cause hurt unintentionally. I think that it's best to be true to yourself, lead by example, expect the same in return, and be accepting to the extent that someone realises they can be honest with you. I would give it more time and talk to him about it. If he continues to tell even little white lies I would be inclined to walk.

"I'm 40, and in my short life I have seen a complete cultural shift in this. Years ago the milkman flirted, the builders whistled, guys slapped your bum at the bar, men chatted you up, men and women spoke to each other, the mechanic gave you freebies and generally the world was a happier more friendlier place."

I agree about seeming friendlier; nothing like a mobile phone to kill conversations and keep people away.

Some of these actions can get men into trouble nowadays though, so probably stops a lot of old style everyday behaviour.

Posties, milkmen and similar trades still flirt and joke about though; it's part of the job.

What did he say he was doing when he was in fact helping his Mum .?

He was helping his mum! She is lovely and he helps her out a lot as they lost his father a couple of years back. He told me he was working as he is self-employed it meant losing money and he thought that would bother me, based on past experiences I think. I don't rely on him financially or him me so it was of no consequence. He felt it would make me think he was unreliable and not bothered about losing money, so would give me doubts about wanting him to move in

The flirty messages may be insignificant, and your friends' relationships are not yours. Just because their OHs cheated does not mean yours will.

BUT

1. I agree, the lying is a big problem. It's pathetic to say he lied because his previous women disapproved. Couldn't he tell them he's jolly well going to help his own mother? He's supposed to be a grown man ffs, not a naughty schoolboy! And here you are bending over backwards not to be "the nagging girlfriend" to avoid triggering his issues. It's not healthy.

2. He may well be head over heels in love with you, but sometimes devotion is not enough. I am as sure as I can be that XH was completely devoted to me and have no reason to believe he ever cheated. He was, however, very difficult to live with, and yes, lying was quite a big part of it. After over 20 years he still didn't trust/respect me enough not to lie to me, and somehow seemed to have mistaken me for someone who tells lies too. Someone, I think it may have been Oscar Wilde (it often was), said that the biggest burden a liar carries is not that nobody else believes him but that he is unable to believe anyone else.

3. It sounds as though your friends are rather invested in your fairy tale romance. From the outside your relationship looks ideal and they would, of course, really love you to be happy. This may well be skewing their approach. How often has it been said, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors? As long as they see flowers and emails and you don't turn up with a black eye they'll believe it's all great. They want it to be all great.

4. It's easy to be wonderful for two days out of seven. Loving texts are not the same as sharing the housekeeping. I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to move him in on a permanent basis even if there were no niggles; you have a child, and you don't know whether the dynamic would work once there is an adult male under the same roof. It will probably work out as long as all parties are on the same wavelength, but make sure no boats are burned, in case for example he has to move out again for a bit while your son adjusts. Whether a man who tells petty lies is a good role model for a child is, of course, an added factor in this case.

5. Paying for holidays is nice, but it doesn't prove anything except that he thinks you are a good companion to take on his holiday. Oh, and that he has (or can borrow) money. It is not in itself a sign of devotion - although if he expected you to pay for it, or presented you with half the bill without warning, that would certainly be a bad sign!

So... in conclusion, you're right to feel this changes things. I reckon this guy has a lot of work to do to prove himself trustworthy before he earns the right to share a roof with your precious boy.

Ooh and I agree re the flirting thing! Sorry I keep stopping mid-cleaning to add more lol! Both of us are friendly banter sort of people, happy to chat to anyone and it can be taken in the wrong way. I don't believe that's a problem as long as that's all it is. It's part of life, I never want to be that woman who stops my partner doing every day things or nags him non-stop I just want to be able to trust him and for him to feel I'm the one for him and not do anything (else) to jeopardise that.

Wow anniegetyourgun that does all make sense and yes my boy is precious to me. Probably part of the reason I stayed single for so long - I don't want him hurt or affected by my relationships. He has what I would call a great friendship with my partner at the moment and its nice but yes it's an extra consideration that I don't take lightly. I do feel that I need to invest in my life too though - he is always my priority!