How to tell the difference between 'shy' and not interested?

[beaglesaresweet]

Sorry for the epic, I feel that without detail it will be unclear. Feel free to lose patience half way !
I'm just really confused by this man's signals towards me. I've met him a while ago in a social group, he actually promoted it for me to join as he's one of the organisers. There was instant mutual liking, I feel, I'd say instant attraction but not in a shallow way, not obviously physical for me, but personalities and interests and just general attarction. Since then I've seen him on and off over two years, with some long gaps. He clearly flirted with me in the beginning, lots of eye contact, just looking, very comfortable chats.
I thought I may be potentially interested in dating him, even though he is 15 yrs older but I like him. So I thought I will create opportunities for him asking me out, i.e. being away from the usual group. So I stayed behind after a meeting and joined him for a quick tour of a museum which he said he's going to. All well and lots of chatting/understanding/smiling but all very social, then we went towards the tube and I thought, ideal chance for him to offer a drink/coffee, kind of social and not risking rejection as such if he was shy. Well, again while we walked he kept glancing across to me, but then never offered a drink and we said good buys. I though ok, maybe he lost his nerve. Next time again similar situation, again I arrived and he 9while talking to someone) immediately turned towards the entrance and was giving me a long stare, then involved me in the talk and then abruptly left and I was left with that new person, it looked like he maybe was embarassed by us looking at each other. He then again had a chance to ask me out when no one was around at some point, but didn't! I thought, sod it, he is probably not single (and at his age unlikely to be tbh). So I didn't see him for more than 6 months, felt like I'm making an idiot of myself.

Recently I came along to something where he didn't expect to see me - when I arrived he absolutely beamed and said 'what a nice suroprise', I also beamed at him as I still like him. By no deliberate design, I ended up sitting right next to him for a while, and again sweet exchange of glances, feeling harmonious and as if we belong somehow, bu this was with people present and not obvious to others. After this, I stayed behind with other people (no way I was chasing him again), and he shook everyone's hand when leaving, and mine last, he doesn't usually shake hands with all. Again said it was nice to see me, I replied I'll see him at a place where he works. I was there for a while, and then he came back into the room briefly saying he forgot something (he didn't find it), when he came in, long eye contact with me again. I thought, well that's encouraging maybe he missed me. So I went to where he works, he was on his own. And again - awkwardness and edtachment, whereas he was beaming in a group at me, he wasn't when one to one (not for the first time) and in fact I thought he was a bit rude. I asked him wheter he had time to show me some stuff of mutual interest, or is he too busy, he said actually I do haev things to do now before going home, in a slightly frosty way!! I said sorry, I can have a look by myself, I don't want to impose. So I went on with it, he was doing some letter typing etc, then later he seemed to cheer up and wa sitting acropss the table just pertty much staring at me and not engaging much in conversation, I was chatting away because I was also a bit nervous, but he was responding but not intiating, also he didfn't ask anything personal even after such a long break in contact. But he sort of warned up and at least smiled at a few things I said. Needless to say, no invites for a drink or even offer of a cup of tea.

I mean, WTF? He so obviously stares and shows interest/attarction, and I feel a lot of chemistry there, but I'm too shy to bedirect, though he has no doubt that I like him. I didnt hide it that I was disappointed when he said he wan't coming to the next event.

So either he is so shy that he expects me to be direct (esp with the age gap), or he is not single. But then why on earth is this show of interest and flirting for want of a better word? Why is he demonstrative in a group when they ar not looking, but all reserved and even off hand when it's one to one? If he's not single, why on earth do it if he think nothing could ever happen, he's not an obvious player/tease type. This is a well respected intelligent man. I think a few people in the group twigged that I like him, and possibly same wit him, so they may tell his partner? but he still doesn't seem to hide it too much when others are around. I will repeat that I gave him chances to ask me out and I'm sure he could see what I'm doing at least after the first occasion. Because of this, I ;m not going to lose face completely and ask him myself, just no. For all I know he may enjoy watching/encouraging me to be showing attraction to him but it's all for a laugh/ego boost and I just annoy him when it becomes close to acting on it. I do feel that we genuinely are attracted but could I be wrong? He's sort of quite close to my 'Mr Right' even though age gap isn't ideal, that's why the angst, even though I have dropped it once before and will probably have to again.

I think you are over-thinking this. I have no idea if he likes you or not but I do know that this sort of attempt to second guess every last gesture or remark points to your being too focused on what you think he is trying to tell you.

Just focus on you and what you want. Confidence and self-reliance are attractive, neediness is not. If he is interested in you, you won't help it if you continue to behave as you are.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but long experience has taught me that this is a fast way to put people off.

thanks for the advice, new. I thought the fact that I didn't see him for many months, and the once I did in a group I hardly spoke to him but was focusing on others, helped to show that I'm not too focused on him. I didn't expect such a nice reaction when I saw him after that long break, thought maybe he did miss seeing me a bit. But still of course I'm nowhere with this. So do you advise being distant, or still continue contact but being much more laid-back and more reserved instead of filling the silences with nervous chat? sounds like it.
zig I did mean shy in terms of dating/when attracted, not generally shy as he isn't that generally. He gets on well with women and is friends with a few.

feminist and Rubbish, so you think there is a slight chance he says yes? it seems that no one on here thinks so that's why I wasn't going to ask. I'll think about asking next time, which would not be for a month and a half now, I don't want to ask on the phone.
Rubbish you ARE funny, end of your post, that's the spirit. I wish I was so carefree. Yes, I don't trust instant sexual attraction anymore, it usually doesn't last with me either. Did you ask him out after you felt it or was it a vague experiment?

"it seems that no one on here thinks so that's why I wasn't going to ask"

We are only suggesting our thoughts based on what you have posted; nobody on here knows what he thinks in his head, so the only way to find out is for you to ask him out for coffee (as he isn't asking you).

Whatever his response, you will likely feel better for finding out one way or the other.

MM isn't the fact he hasn't asked me giving a couple of opportunities, the answer, i.e. 'not interested'?

It did cross my mind that some non-single men would give signals but would wait to be asked by the single woman so that it looks like she has offered and less responsibility on him somehow? I wouldn't want to if he's not single, but this is really the only reason why he wouldn't suggest even a simple coffee if he is attracted imo.

Like I wrote previously, to me it seems he's not interested, but if you really have to know for sure then you will have to ask him.

'given', not giving.

I can live with it as I have done for more than a year, the thread helped to be even clearer about his possible motives, so I'll leave it as I don't want to do something that's bound to fail. He can still ask me out, he knows I like him.

I think its 50/50. He may say yes, he may decline. You have a much better chance of him saying yes if you actually ask though!

I can't say if he likes you or not, neither can any other poster!

I think the comments about him being older just wanting his ego boosted while married/stringing you along are ridiculous really, they are pretty massive conclusions to jump to on the basis you are two adults who flirt with each other!

I say go for it! As you said you can go months without seeing him, so its not like you would have to see him all the time, if he does say no, you only need to be polite if you do bump into him occasionally!

You have nothing to lose really.

Is he a bit short/long-sighted OP? I'm asking because of the staring that you keep referring to.

I don't think he's interested in you in a romantic way although he likes you as an acquaintance/friend. If that's enough for you then it's worth having.

I read that you'd like it to be more. Perhaps you're coming across stronger than you actually think you are and that's why he leaves you with people or bolts for the exit instead of following the natural source when you're with somebody you want to be with. He doesn't, does he?

If you read your post as written by somebody else, would you think he was interested or would you be urging her not to read too much into it and fill in the gaps and blanks? That's what I think you're doing... because there seems to be nothing but gaps and blanks in whatever this is, you're allowing your perceptions to fill those in.

I thin if he really liked you in a romantic way, you'd know it. You've lost nothing, maybe gained a friend here with whom you have common ground and interests.

Get pissed and ask him if he has a G/F or wife. If not then ask him out! Worked for me with (fairly shy) now DH!

Does he know you're single? Just a thought.

Lol hughfearnly!

The old, get drunk and fuck it approach. Classic.

I did ask out the man 13 years older.
He half declined. Then we spent months getting to know each other and the sexual chemistry was through the roof.

But he wouldn't fight for me, couldn't give me a relationship. So whilst you could follow any all or none of the advice on the thread,
If a man is really into you, he won't let you get away.

If he does quite like you but his current behaviour is driving you bananas, then guess what.... He will always drive you bananas even if you do snare him.

Yes there probably is chemistry. But clearly there is something else missing too.

I think a few people in the group twigged that I like him, and possibly same wit him, so they may tell his partner?

So, he has a partner?

Just walk away. What on earth do you want from this?

Well I have apologised for taking his time when he was busy at work (via brief e-mail) and he then apologised for being busy and is now sounding friendly again.
What I've done, going by some more recent advice, is suggest that I'd like to join him when he is going to an evevnt which I know is coming up, kind of breexily said dthat I'd join him if I'm free at that time and to let me know. He'll be going by himself even though at the event there will be some known people but it's a brief thing and could chat afterwards or I may suggest a coffee then if he doesn't run off with an excuse! So I've given him a more clear chance now, but I still don't want to ask him directly, because if I am annoying him or he's not interested, it'd be too unpleasant. I agree, *feminist' not much to lose and I don't need to see him often, but can you see my point - if I obviously suggest to meet up as I've done, he would definitely make excuses and not invite me along in which case I save face - if he is interested SURELY he'd take the chance and at least see what happens. I'm still inclined to agree with the majority that for whatever reason he doesn't want to act on it.

LL0015, very wise words! It's kind of the classic 'The Rules', that yes you can chase and snare someone, but do yo ureally want to keep chasing while he doesn't fight for you and drives you bananas? I take it, you've dropped him.

Thanks for positive stories, sorry can't reply to everyone as it's late now but I do read all posts.Nice to hear that it works sometimes.

Lweji, I meant IF he had a partner (other people in the group know him much more closely than I do him). I'm thinking that he is likely to have a partner even though (and maybe especially) as he s separated, men of his age don't often separate without an ow. I've no idea though whether he is committed to anyone or even single but doesn't want a relationship after recent separation. Maybe it's a light distraction of sorts.

I'm sure he knows I'm single as I wear no wedding/engagement rings, and never refer to a partner, and also have moved recently a few times.

Btw I am keeping my eyes open for other men, and should do it more actively really. It is a bit distacting but if he doesn't invite me now after my offer, then I'll forget it properly.

How about you ascertain if he does have a partner first?

I can't, unless you mean I ask him. If he does take me up on my offer now, I will ask him after the event as there will be no else overhearing.

I can' t ask people who know him well as from a bew person it would be odd and actually obvious. I know he has grown up children as that was 'safe' to ask, and only because someone was talking about it, but all I've heard is that he was separated (months ago). I don't meet with the group often at all and most conversations are social i.e. could be heard by all.

Also a man can easily lie when he is not in a serious relationship but just 'seeing someone'.

If he doesn't invite me to join him, then I'll just assume 'no interest'. doesn't matter then what's the reason.

'new person'

Lying yes I'd be happy enough with staying friendly if nothing else happen,s though it may still come across that I'm attracted but if I put my mind to it I can steer it to just friendliness. I've already cooled it once hugely gone off in a huff after failed attempts by not seeing him for months, it's just after the break he confused me by being so happy to see me (and it wasn't directly to do with what he organises btw so he could be much more laid-back). When he apologised that he was busy just now, he again added ' it was good to see you', have heard that three times in two weeks, unlike before! so I think I could be allowed to be confused a little but not for much longer.

Yes I called it a day with my older man. I told him I was worth more and he wholeheartedly agreed.

We both cried.
Onwards.

OP, what is your relationship with your dad like? If it's not good, or your dad went out of your life when you were much younger, I wonder if your feelings towards this older man are not so much sexual but more that you are missing a father figure? Not every relationship in our lives has to be sexual: sometimes we are drawn to another person in ways that are nothing to do with sex or romance.

"Not every relationship in our lives has to be sexual: sometimes we are drawn to another person in ways that are nothing to do with sex or romance."

Maybe that's why some older men are attracted to younger women; perhaps they are really looking for a daughter figure in their lives.

Solid, yes, relationship with father not great, he wasn't absent (i.e. he met up with me after parents divorced) but it was never close, I'm friendly with him now but again not close. Yes it's kind of obvious, and he's not (at all) the first older man I've been with, but there is definitely a chemistry element too, I can't help blushing when we touch in any way.

MadeMan, well do you mean if the man doesn't have daughters? as if he has, surely he wouldn't need a substitute. In this case, he does have a daughter but she is thankfully much younger than me (if he had children at 17, she could be my age) so this kind of helps. What do you think of my move of inviting him to invite me?

Funny you say that SGB, I was quite amused to hear one of his friends say (not to me) that wouldn't we all want X to be our father, as he makes a really good one. hmm. I think as a father figure I'd prefer someone softer and gentler, but who knows. I have been in relationships with younger men too though.