"Pre mediation chat"

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Sorry I can't figure out how to link to my previous posts on here but looking for some more advice from you all :)

So "D"H moved out over 7 weeks ago, this was after many years of EA and finally me asking him to leave after he threatened suicide in front of the DCs. Not because he was depressed but because he was angry at me (he still thinks this makes it ok....).

So since then he has continued with the crying although it's now only as he is leaving. He hasn't tried to kiss me again, or sniff my hair, or ask for one of my jumpers to sleep with

He is however like human pinball machine, trying anything to press my buttons and get me to take him back. His latest tactic is to scare me into what I'm not entitled to. He wants the DC 50/50, wants me to go back to work full time, tells me I will only get a tiny house in a crap area. You get the jist. Luckily I have seen two solicitors so know that's pretty much bollocks.

He doesn't want us to consult solicitors (!) and to do it all ourselves amicably. So he's happy to go to mediation but wants us to have a "pre mediation chat" first. At lunchtime today. In it we are going to talk about how much "realistically" I will get, putting house on market, division of house contents and (almost as an afterthought) the children.

Any ideas how to keep calm during this? I lost my temper last night with him when he came for dinner, left a mess behind in the kitchen and then fell asleep putting the DC to bed. He views me losing my temper as a "win to him" because I have tried so hard to be calm.

Cancel. What good could possibly come from it?

The only good that could come from it is I stand firm and maybe he finally starts realising divorce is inevitable? At the moment if we see a mediator when he's behaving like this then mediation will fail and divorce costs will escalate (or so the solicitor told me), so I'm keen to get him on the same page as me if that makes sense?

Don't go.

This is a chat specifically planned as a chance to bully you.

Why did you agree to it?

I personally wouldn't meet with him at all! My father did this to my Mum when they were splitting up and he terrified her and bullied her into a jabbering wreck right before the proper meeting so she couldn't participate properly.

Isn't this just another example of his emotional abuse and manipulation?

I would not attend any such meeting under any circumstances. He was and still is emotionally abusive and will use such a chat to verbally bash you about the head with.

EA men like mediation because again they can use that as a useful stick to beat their victims with as well as manipulate the mediator. I would not entertain the idea of mediation at all with him.

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behaviour, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

There will be no amicable solution here because such men cannot ever do or be amicable.

I think he will further go all out to "punish" you for leaving him by being as difficult and obstructive as possible throughout the whole divorce process. You really do need to use the services of a lawyer who will see his emotional manipulations for what they really are. Your children need to steer clear of him as well.

"The only good that could come from it is I stand firm and maybe he finally starts realising divorce is inevitable? At the moment if we see a mediator when he's behaving like this then mediation will fail and divorce costs will escalate (or so the solicitor told me), so I'm keen to get him on
the same page as me if that makes sense"

No good will come of meeting him today. He won't get on the same page as you because he is not fundamentally a reasonable and amicable character. He is abusive and will not change.

No disrespect meant to you Toast but he has and continues to play you like a violin here; these people are highly skilled at manipulating others and he still visits (invades) your home and messes with your and your childrens heads.

I understand all of that but I need him to agree to putting the house on the market. Until he does that he can wander in any time he wants. He can also move back in.

I have an appointment booked with the solicitor tomorrow to go over anything that's discussed today. I was planning on taking notes.

I don't want to go but I really don't see an answer to any of this otherwise. If I cancel he will be smug that I'm too weak to deal with him. I've been sick twice this morning from the stress so I need to get it over with.

Can't keep the DC away from him, but they are choosing by themselves not to spend time with him. I don't influence that. My youngest has said he "scares her a bit". (When I told him this he brushed off my concerns.) So despite what he thinks he is not getting them half of every week!!!

nothing good will come out of it. The mediator will still want to see feel outgoings and incoming money etc before they will look at any settlements so I would just say no xx

Don't spoil your Sunday. Tell him you will speak with solicitor first.

The only way is as was said broken record technique. But it best you get legal advice first.
"We can discuss that with mediator"

Cancel. Mediation IS the chat. There is no point in meeting him for a 'pre chat' unless you like pointless stress and drama!

Don't go.

The whole point of mediation is to help you both sort all this out.

No pre-chat needed.

If it's easier, tell him you have a migraine or something.

But do cancel.

I went. It was fairly pointless although he has agreed to find a solicitor.

I was made to feel incredibly guilty about how I'm destroying the family and 20 years of happiness.

He refuses to see the impact his behaviour has had on the children and how much happier they are now. He actually said he refuses to admit that.

He has said he will find it easier to divorce me for my unreasonable behaviour and said I could help him find the reasons....

Sigh.

Toast, I'm sorry it was yet another horrible experience for you, but you could have seen that one coming with a large red sign on it just like a lot of people on the thread warned you. No matter how you hope, he isn't going to play by the rules. He won't. You need to give up on that.

Yes I knew it wasn't going to go well. I just hoped for actual civilised moving on kind of discussion.

But I've done it. Will see my solicitor tomorrow and start moving things on as much as I can, can now book the mediator too.

I guess in some ways it was a step forward, just with a barrel load of guilt about it being my fault, which yes I should have expected.

How are you doing Toast? Has the solicitor been any help?

Yes solicitor was very good. All signed up with her (or whatever correct term is), she will draft the first letter asap. Mediator booked for next week.

He's asked me for solicitor recommendations, I have to smile at the way I'm still expected to do stuff for him. At the moment I'm trying to write my unreasonable behaviour reasons which I'm finding far more difficult than I expected.

XH actually asked me to ask my solicitor for some legal advice for him, and was quite taken aback when I said I was paying my solicitor to act for me and he would have to find his own.

Honestly, cut off contact with this knob. Use your solicitor to help you bar him from the family home, don't force the DC to see him when they clearly don't want to, handle everything through either email or third parties. If he phones, hang up; ignore texts, lock him out of the house. And compile all the evidence of his abusive, unreasonable behaviour for future reference ie when things come to court.
There is no possibility of this man being reasonable. you can't 'get through to him' because the only thing that matters to him is him. Dont' worry about his whining or his accusations. He's an abusive prick and his opinion doesn't matter.

My solicitor cannot bar him from the family home. In fact her concern is he will try to move back in (which legally he can do), hence why we are trying to move quickly and in a overly nice way. She has discussed with me the way these kind of men act and how we can best deal with it. Eg she has told me to be the one to petition, not let him, because he would then ultimately be in the driving seat with the process.

And he can still see his DC, if they want to see him. I can't stop that. Hopefully it won't ever get to court and somehow it can all be agreed via solicitors.

Great that the first letter's on it's way. LOL that he's expecting you to sort him out with a solicitor!

His unreasonable behaviours... your posts share a fairly extensive list of them!

I know they do, but I just can't focus on it. It's the act of trying to put it into black and white. Hard to phrase "continually made me feel like crap".

If you find your other posts you will have a huge long list of his unreasonable behaviour.

I hope you aren't trying to find any of YOUR own unreasonable behaviour. That is not something you can do as you haven't done anything wrong!!!