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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

lesbian issues

39 replies

notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 20:57

Namechanged for this.

Im a lesbian and Ive always really loved having guy friends. The only problem is they always seem to want more and end up being quite pushy with this. My past definitely has something to do with this as I was abused as a child(physically, sexually,emotionally)and find men really difficult to say no to. Im just too nice.

Ive found all my male friendships have ended quite inappropriately, one drove me home one day and told me I should give him a blowjob and asked if Id ever masturbated to him.(I ran a mile) Another raped me. And another one was so pushy that I basically just gave in and slept with him. Lately I feel like Im getting into another situation with a guy friend..hes made his intentions somewhat clear and I just laugh them off or ignore but it makes me very uncomfortable. Why can't me being a lesbian be enough for them? I just feel so afraid of saying no...I also just want a guy friend...nothing more. Just some male company. Its never enough. Im beginning to feel like I hate men, and like they're just out to befriend me and use me so they can say they've shagged a lesbian.

I just really don't know what to do about this.

OP posts:
notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 21:21

anyone?

OP posts:
dejarderoncar · 26/03/2015 22:06

Hi. I am so sorry that you have had such terrible experiences. I hope that you felt able to report the rape, and that you have had appropriate counselling. That's the first and most important thing to say.

Sadly , you refer to them as your male friends, when in fact they were never friends in any true sense at all. Are you completely up front from the start with them that you are a lesbian? Are you, for want of a better term, a 'lipstick lesbian', ie resembling their stereotype of a heterosexual woman rather than a stereotypical lesbbian, so that they don't quite believe you can be completely gay? Not that that excuses their actions in any way, nor to say that you have provoked them.

I suspect you are relatively young, and some younger men unfortunately can often not see further than the end of their dicks on far too many occasion especially after few drinks on a night out.

If you seek male company can you find it in a mixed group of friends, or get to know some gay guys? Gay guys come in all shapes and sizes, and from macho to camp! Perhaps take up a class or hobby which men like as well, so you might find a guy you have something in common with. And try not to put yourself in a vulnerable position with anyone until you have complete confidence in them.

As a lesbian myself, I have gone through exactly the same shit in my younger days, including what would now be considered rape but would have been completely dismissed fifty plus years ago. It made me despise men.

Now that I am old, experienced and self confident, I am lucky to have a heterosexual guy, a family man, twenty years my junior, from the other side of the world, as one of my closest and most trusted friends. For some random reason we just love each other! Men can be great.

dejarderoncar · 26/03/2015 22:20

p.s. please do not 'laugh off or ignore' your so called current friends attempts to take things further thn you want. My advice would be to drop him completely, he is NOT a friend.

Every time you don't respond with a clear NO, he is picking up the message that he wants to hear, that you may come round to it if he keeps trying it on. He needs to hear you say no. Better than that, he needs to hear you say fuck off. He does not like you or respect you.

Have you thought about having some specific counselling around assertiveness. I am very much afraid that any woman who spends time with men without the weapon of assertiveness is likely to find herself in a very dangerous place sooner rather than later.

notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 22:23

Yeah Im a lipstick lesbian...Im 31...but a lot of it happened from the ages of 19 and upward. The guys Ive befriended are a bit younger, around 26-28. As far as my sexuality I am very upfront about it.

Ive also had problems with two of my best friends partners...I have never showed any interest in these blokes whatsoever. Im just me, who is nice to everyone. One of them came into my room when i was asleep and crawled into my bed drunk(I lived with him and one of his friends)and proceed to lay on top of me and told me how hot he thought i was. I literally froze. Luckily he passed out. A few days after my other housemate said prior to him going upstairs he told him he was going to "take advantage of notsurewot2do32." Ive never told my friend as Im sure it would be a shoot the messenger situation.

Im beginning to wonder what Im doing wrong. Am I supposed to be a complete cunt to men? I just don't have that in me. Can they sniff that I have complete boundary issues when it comes to men? I would just never ever do that to someone. It baffles me!

Luckily I have two gay friends who are lovely. Im just fed up of striking out with every other man who isn't gay.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 26/03/2015 22:23

these men are not "friends", they are sexual opportunists and rapists

this is nothing to do with your sexuality, it's about the company you keep

you should be able to be friendly with blokes without them trying to jump you

I am sorry for your experiences Thanks

notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 22:25

Cross post...I think you are absolutely right about counseling. Ive had counseling before but had to bail as it got too expensive. It almost pisses me off that Im the one who has to go to counseling for how they behave.

OP posts:
notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 22:27

Yeah Ive always felt that way. Im a pretty staunch feminist but I believe in giving men a chance. Im just disappointed to find that anytime a bloke talks to me, even knowing im gay, I just wonder whether its a challenge to them or what their intentions are. There is no trust whatsoever!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 26/03/2015 23:12

I totally agree that it is galling that you are considering counselling to deal with somebody else's fucked up behaviour

Having said that, if it will help to consolidate your boundaries, we could all do with a bit of bolstering

MrsCosmopilite · 26/03/2015 23:14

I completely agree with you AnyFucker - these so-called friends are arseholes. notsure- I am sorry you've had such awful experiences.

jd56 · 26/03/2015 23:21

I have plenty of male friends and none have ever behaved in ways that you describe so I don't subscribe to the notion that all men just want to get into my knickers, and I'm sure the same applies to you. It sounds like you have been very unlucky with the male company you keep and I really feel for you.

GinBunny · 26/03/2015 23:35

Your sexuality shouldn't matter in these situations - no means no - end of. The problem is with them and I think it is your self-esteem that needs a boost - you say you slept with one guy because he put pressure on you and it seems that you are being intimidated by how their actions make you feel.
I think you need to stop seeing these men as friends and see them as predators as soon as this awful behaviour begins. Don't try and develop a relationship with them, you don't need their "friendship" and don't need them in your life. Walk away, you are way better than they are treating you Thanks.

notsurewot2do32 · 26/03/2015 23:55

Thank you, I think I just needed to hear it from other unbiased people...Ive kind of gotten the "you-lead-them-on" card from some "friends." Hmm How that is possible when I am so open about my sexuality is beyond me. I will definitely seek more counseling out.

OP posts:
noodle8000 · 27/03/2015 03:58

I'm not a lesbian but had the same behavior from almost all my guy friends. My advice is to not be friends with anyone who isn't respectful of you and don't even keep in contact with them which will make it easier to keep clear boundaries so they don't have a chance to try to manipulate you.

lunalelle · 27/03/2015 05:55

I found that almost all of my heterosexual male 'friends' in the past have tried it on (and I am not a lesbian). I prefer being friends with gay men - just seems easier, because the harsh truth is that most men will try their luck if they think there is a chance ( ie you haven't told them to sod off outright!)

Rebecca2014 · 27/03/2015 06:41

Can I ask why you are so desperate to have male friends? I know a lot of people who do not have the opposite gender as friends.

zippey · 27/03/2015 06:56

Why is it you want a male friend so much? Men and women do differ in personality but I'd much rather have a friend that I like and had no issues with. It doesn't mean you hate men but it might mean you start being a bit stand offish with them, ie to stop being so nice. I know that might be hard if you are a nice person at heart.

AnyFucker · 27/03/2015 06:56

I was going to say in your situation I would be concentrating on cultivating female friendships while you sort this out in your head.

FluffyMcnuffy · 27/03/2015 07:18

OP I'm also a lesbian (married) and I've had exactly the same issues as you.

Unfortunately as a result of this I tend to steer clear of male "friends" aside from work colleagues.

zippey · 27/03/2015 10:30

Yes I agree with the last few comments. These people are not friends. Friends dont want to take advantage of you. A friend is someone who wants to be kind to you and enjoys your company.

If a person starts crossing the boundaries, I would start giving them the short shrift. I think its definatly a trick you learn as you get older when you don't care so much about what other people think of you.

Branleuse · 27/03/2015 10:44

This is why I dont really have male friends much, and even the ones I do have, im never close friends with. They all end up coming onto you or assuming friendliness means you want to fuck them. When I was younger I got myself into many encounters that I didnt want to actually be in. Now I just avoid male friends unless theyre partners of a female friend or I totally trust that they dont fancy me
Im really sorry youve been raped and harrassed :(

ArcheryAnnie · 27/03/2015 11:09

You are doing absolutely nothing wrong, notsure. Your "friends" are not friends, or good people, if they treat you like this. You have every right to set whatever boundaries the hell you like and expect to have them respected.

If counselling helps you feel better and stronger, go for it, it's really worth it - but just to reiterate, it isn't your behaviour that needs to be "fixed", it's theirs.

notsurewot2do32 · 27/03/2015 11:25

I don't feel desperate as such, I'd just prefer the ones I interact with to not cross the line. I think deep down I want to be wrong about the narrative I have in my head concerning men..that theyre just out to use me and nothing more. I think you're right re having male friendships, maybe I feel as if because I'm a lesbian and feminist I have to defend myself on the whole man-hater thing.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 27/03/2015 11:28

Very much agree with PPs about your boundaries, and that you need help to set them and keep them.

The abuse you were subjected to as a child will have partly "trained" you to ignore your own boundaries and feel that other people's wants and needs are more important than your own.

I personally tend to make male friends easier than female. If they hint they are attracted then I tell them straight out that nothing is going to happen. If they keep on trying to flirt then I stop socialising with them. It can be painful to end a friendship but I can't be doing with them whining about "mixed messages" or being "friendzoned", or whatever.

(Disclaimer: I'm mainly straight with a hint of gay, LOL)

SensationalGirl · 27/03/2015 12:52

Are you beautiful and naturally flirty? Only ask because your friends say you lead them on sometimes. I say if you are then lucky you for having those traits but women who are like that need very very strong boundaries. Men can be stupid dicks, they think your personality is about them when it's just you being you.

It is possible to be flirty but obvious that you are not available. And yes you need to start being a bitch to men who think they can have you.

ArcheryAnnie · 27/03/2015 12:56

It doesn't matter how beautiful or flirty the OP is. If she's said she's not interested in her male friends, that's where it should stop.

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