feeling let down by mum with decisions on her will

[mumnosbest]

I'm feeling really confused and upset by a phone call with my mum about her will and can't really discuss it with anyone. Sorry if this is a bit long or confusing.

First a bit of background: I have a brother, sister and another sibling. The other has been in residential care since childhood due to disability. My brother and sister don't speak due to a falling out caused by him so I've always been stuck in the middle. My older two siblings have a different dad to me and my brother but I am equally close to both. We are all adults (30-45yrs). My father died a long time ago.

Last year I suggested my mum should make a new will as I don't want to be stuck between 2 fighting siblings and she doesn't want the sister in care included as she is already provided for.

This morning my mum rang to ask me to go with her to make a will, leaving everything to my brother, as he still lives at home and she doesn't want him to be homeless.

I understand her wanting to provide for him but he's a grown man. He has been very lazy over the years, only working over the last 2 years, whilst my sister and I have struggled with mortgages, jobs, families etc. My mum has been ill over the past few years and it's me and my family that look after her and taxi her about. She even lived with us for 3 months when she was unable to care for herself (even though me and DH work full-time and have 3 DC and her son was living in her house and not working). I also think that my dad would turn in his grave to think his other children were left out like this.

I can't discuss this with my sister as I think it would ruin her already fragile relationship with my mum. I don't want to appear greedy but I am feeling really shocked and confused. I can't imagine treating my 3 DC like this.

Big slap on the back for making that call.

I think she is just oblivious to how she would make us feel.

I think you're probably right and I think that until you talk to her about this, she will continue to be oblivious.

Raffles and Thymeout these are the sorts of situations I really want to avoid, so sad that people make these decisions without realising the repercussions. I can imagine the exact same thing happening with my brother, going on his past relationships. Even taking me and my sister out of the equation, I'd hate to think his future family would benefit at the loss of ours. Also it seems unfair on my sister, who is doing ok now but has been a single parent for a long time and struggled to provide. I'm lucky that I have my DH and his family.

How good you are op

You are not only here to provide for your children, are you? Isn't there more to it than that? Or does martyrdom run in your family?

Ah, I sound vicious. You seem happy with the result so perhaps that's the important thing.

Your sister however....

Of course not, what I meant was that I will make provisions for my children as that's my responsibility as my sisters children are to her. I wont take my mums house into consideration for that. For all I know she could sell up and retire abroad or need her money for a nursing home.

I don't think you sound martyrish at all, OP. You sound like you're dealing with a difficult situation as best you can.

Losing a loved one is hard enough without having to deal with financial drama while you're grieving. You are right to try and sort it out now, while you can. I hope your DM reaches a decision you're at ease with

Yes, she could do all those things [though what would happen to your brother if she did?] but that doesn't alter that she has very specifically sidestepped you and your sister in favour of your brother. You may want to muffle that by selflessly and nobly standing aside to give to your children n years down the line.

You're not going to put this noble selflessness on your sister I hope? I doubt she'll see it the same way.

Or perhaps you'll leave her out to dry - as your mother has left you out to dry.

But you have a cosy corner to retreat to and pull the duvet over. Your sister not so much.

Denial eh. It gets everywhere.

Off now, you'll be glad to hear.

Good lord springydaffs what the heck?

Denial. Alive and kicking in OPs mother - to the point she is oblivious to what she's doing. The way I see it, OP is reverting to default ie denying the acute pain of this by scurrying off to a cosy corner. Perhaps she's doing what she's been trained to do with the mother she has?

We can stop that - that inherited, willful blindness. If not for ourselves - it is very painful to do - we can do it so we dont pass it on to our children under various guises. Now that is an inheritance I wouldn't want to pass on to my children.

OP, whilst I'm pleased to see you have discussed this with your mum I strongly urge you to reconsider giving your approval to your db getting a lifelong free house . Why on earth should he? I would say two years max plus a caveat that he cares for and maintains the property.

To do otherwise does all of you damage, him included. Favouritism in wills does damage which cannot be repaired.

Who are you, and what have you done with Springydaffs?!

Whoa! What happened here? I was only away for a little while. I haven't asked for opinions on my mums decisions, they are hers to make. I was just looking for somewhere to clarify my feelings. Denial would be ignoring the situation, not trying to make the best of it. I am not my brother or sister's keepers and whilst I'm here for them both, we have all made our own lives and are responsible for them. None of us should rely on or expect an inheritance. If my mum lives to a grand old age (which I hope she does) we'll all muddle through and help each other where we can. I might not like my mums first decision but she is trying to be fair now, without seeing my brother out on the streets.

Well handled OP.

No need to think too much on the bitter sounding post by springydaffs.

Sorry, I meant posts. Each one more poisonous than the previous. What a shame.

Thanks. An hour at the park with DD helped put things into perspective. Feeling much happier now :)

I haven't asked for opinions on my mums decisions, they are hers to make.

I was just thinking that a lot of the advice posted would be great if it were your mum posting for advice on how to deal with her estate.

I think I'm at a bit of an extreme on MN when it comes to wills (which was a revelation for me). I personally think that fairness doesn't come in to. One shouldn't have any expectation of inheriting anything from anyone.

Yes - nobody should have any expectations, especially with people living longer and needing to pay for care.

But one thing I've recently discovered is that it's unfair to expect siblings to have maternal love for each other. So a mother may feel like favouring one of her dcs because he's had a rough time or he's not as successful as the rest, needs the money more.

The siblings will see this quite differently. 'Like hell he's had a rough time. It's his own stupid fault.' Even leaving everything to the next generation has its pitfalls, when one family benefits more than the rest.

I'm going for equal shares. I won't be here to smooth things out. If there's anything left to leave...

Equal does not always mean fair though. As someone already pointed out, perhaps the mother's definition of fair is that all of her children have a roof over their head and that her death does not mean one of the children having to move out of their home.
Who knows? Perhaps she'll leave it all to the dogs' home?

Problem is, inheritance is rarely about the actual money. Unless your mother really is very well off, it's more that an unequal inheritance feels like an unequal amount of love / care.

One thing to bear in mind is that, if your brother got the house, he would have to pay 40% of the excess value if it was over £325k. So he may have to move out regardless unless there is enough in the bank account to cover that.

Chances are, a fair bit of it may go into your mum's care (say she goes into residential care) before she dies. After this, and after the 40% tax, it may not end up going all that far.

OP I think you've handled the whole thing in a tactful and amazing way. Well done

I think the only way to do wills is to leave everything equally between all DC.

It takes any emotion out of the equation and any accusations of favouritism.

I think the OP has done the right thing but I would probably take it a step further and suggest the OPs mother consider splitting the estate equally without giving the brother the right to remain in the house.

If he gets a third of a house he may be able to buy something in a cheaper part of the country or as part of a shared ownership scheme.

It would be fairer too.

WTF was springyDaffs on about. Her/his NN sounds so cheery too

Please do say something to the person drawing up the will, and in front of your mum.

For example if the will says X what would happen if :
my brother marries someone?
my brother wants to sell the house? - Would he get everything or would he get his share?

If your Mum died tomorrow, your brother could potentially stay in the house for another 60 years rent free - somehow that doesn't seem quite fair.

What happens if your Mum needs caring for - does your brother have to step up in return?

What happens if your Mum needs to go into care - and the only way of paying it is to sell the house?

What happens if your Mum meets someone and wants to get married again? Who gets what then? Ask about ring fencing.

I suggest you write a list of scenarios, and ask what the outcomes would be - check that the choices made are tax efficient too.

My 3 siblings and I are in a similar position. My dad remarried following the death of my mum, my step mum has been an ace Mum to me, but her son was set to inherit everything, plus the multi-billion pound inheritance from his uncle who has no children.

Included in this was our Mums money also going to my step-bro which has created some feelings that my eldest sister has never got past.

We have asked my step mum to leave everything to the 11 grandchildren, thereby avoiding one lot of death duties, and giving all our kids the chance of a decent start at a time when most of them will be looking to buy homes. I remain unconvinced that this will really exists, but I hope it does. She also has a not so new boyfriend (who does a fair amount of shit stirring) - and potentially he stands to gain everything.

I was one of nine siblings. THREE were 'wastrels' (alcoholics).

1. One of them returned to living with my mother in her home in his 40s. never worked again or contributed.

1. One came to live with me for 2 years in his 30s when he lost his £270,000 pa job and wife kicked him out - never worked again or contributed.

1. One lived with me off and on for 9 years. He would come for 2 weeks - 3 months at a time - never worked again or contributed.

DM actually told us that she would NEVER cut any of her children out of her will - not even those she called 'the wastrels'. If they drank their share - then so be it. However, she gave my elder sister and an elder brother PoA and Executor responsibility and expressly said that we could not sell the house unless or until the brother who lived with her was suitably housed. He was given the right to live in the house for as long as he lived.

DM is now 90 yrs old and has buried 4 children. (The 3 'wastrels' managed to drink themselves into an early grave.)

The 5 children still living never needed an inheritance from my parents. All are financially comfortable, in exceptionally good jobs/own businesses. We couldn't have achieved so much without support/encouragement as we completed our degrees and built a career. That was our legacy from our parents.

My DF worked hard to bring up 9 DCs, provide a pension and a house for my DM. Some of the siblings wondered why she would allow the 3 wastrels to drink DF's legacy. But I always believed that my DMs decision was fair.

Can you speak to your DM and suggest that there are alternatives? Can you reassure her that you would never see your sibling made homeless?

You have been asked to accompany her to the solicitor. Now is the time to talk through the ramifications of her decision and make sure that it IS what she wants. She may not have thought about your DB selling the house; nor about him marrying and leaving it to an unknown family.

The solicitor should run through all possible scenarios based on your mums current plans, if they don't ask them what will happen if bro marries etc. I'm perturbed that your mum thinks he needs providing with a house when he is still in his early 30s. Has he really been written off so young, sounds like he needs kicking up the backside. And what happens if you or sis divorce in the coming years and your current security is no more? This is poorly thought out by your mum I'm afraid. Do not underestimate the resentment caused by an ill thought out will.As others have said the money represents love and care and if it's all left to one it causes no end of problems.

I think the only way to do wills is to leave everything equally between all DC.

even this can cause problems.
My dh is not English and law where he comes from is that when a parent dies the estate is split 50% dh/dw and 50% between the children. Although the dh/dw usually has a lifelong interest which means they can actually spend the money if they want.

my dh's mother died and her father died just before her in the same week. There was a lot of problems around the inheritance because they died within a certain number of days of each other.
Did HIS estate get divided between her 4 children, so she was considered to have inherited before she died, and then HER estate get divided between her dh and her kids.
Or did HIS estate get divided between her beneficiaries, assuming she was dead, in which case her share was divided into 5 equal parts between the dh and the kids.

The stupid thing was it was settled (wrongly) at the time, and then several years later in came out that it had been done wrong. My FIL was furious on behalf of his kids. The kids (including my dh) really didn't want to know, it wasn't important to him, but my FIL wouldn't let it go and caused a massive family row. The irony was that her share came to FIL family, just in different proportions, and he didn't want the money, he just wanted it to be FAIR.