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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why did my EA father use his illness to control and scare us?

29 replies

hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 08:30

Have NC as very identifiable.

I wanted to get some opinions from you wise people about this aspect of my father's behaviour which is perplexing me. He was also EA and PA and I am low contact with him.

He has diabetes (since early teens) and takes insulin to control his blood sugar. If you administer too great an amount of insulin your blood sugar drops too low and you act drunk, then loose consciousness, then if someone doesn't give you sugar asap you fall into a coma and die. A typical diabetic has a dangerously low blood sugar maybe a couple of times a year, usually if they are unwell and their eating or insulin needs change. In general it is not rocket science- you need to eat enough food for the dose of insulin you have given yourself.

My father had dangerously low blood sugar at least once a day, sometimes several times a day. My childhood was dominated by him falling into comas and us looking for him and rescuing him, or worrying by the phone when he went out for the day and ended up in hospital. My mother's life was seriously curtailed by it as if she went out for a few hours he would almost certainly be unwell when she got back, and he would blame it on her, e.g. 'I gave myself my usual insulin but you weren't here to make me a sandwich so I ended up unconscious'. She would be anxious when she went out, phoning him and begging him to eat lunch, then having to dash back if he didn't answer the phone.

This obviously was very worrying to me as a child as I frequently thought he would die- every couple of weeks he would go missing and we would anxiously wait for a call from a hospital or the police or a bystander who had found him. He refused to wear a medical alert bracelet so he was often assumed to be drunk, which made us worry more. He also spoilt many important occasions for me by giving himself a low blood sugar and acting drunk in front of my friends, or meaning that we had to leave early. Also I was terrified of getting diabetes myself as he told me it is partly genetic, I became a real worrier as a child.

His doctors unanimously told him that he was giving himself too much insulin each day and that if he reduced the dose he wouldn't keep losing consciousness. He resolutely ignored them. As a child I couldn't understand why he wouldn't listen. As an adult I see that he was doing this on purpose.

He contrived to give himself a low blood sugar at big events when he wasn't the centre of attention for example, then relish in the fuss made over him, and when he had received treatment talk about what happened at great length. Or he would wander off and go missing so my mother had to leave the event she was enjoying to search for him in case he was unconscious somewhere. At big dinners he would always administer his insulin too early so that my mum would need to rush to get the food ready or hassle the waiters to bring his out early before he became ill. He would never be grateful or embarrassed after these occasions, he would only reluctantly say thank you if directly instructed to by my mother (as though a small child). He often greatly inconvenienced others and never thanked them, e.g. if a bystander helped him in the street or he knocked on a stranger's door when unwell, he seemed to have an expectation that everyone was there for his convenience.

Of note, when my mother occasionally went away for a few days to visit family without him, he managed his blood sugar fine whilst she was gone (although she would have to phone him to check on him often, he did eat properly when she was several hours away).

My question is- why would someone do this? I can see that he enjoys being the centre of attention and feeling special, and that it is a means of controlling my mother, but it was a big risk to himself. Most diabetics are very embarrased by acting as if drunk when their blood sugar is low, but he would purposely do this in front of friends, professional colleagues, my childhood friends, in public. Also he could have easily died on a weekly if not daily basis. He was horrible to my mother in many other ways too and many people would have just stopped keeping a such close eye on him!

He also talks and thinks constantly about his diabetes. If you met him for the first time it would literally be the first thing he said to you. He thinks about it constantly too, but thinking his own theories about it and reflecting in great detail on his own experiences, rather than learning or asking for information from others.

I am feeling like a weight is off my shoulders since I have reduced contact, and can think about it more objectively. His illness was unfortunately a huge part of my childhood and I am interested to hear if anyone has thoughts about why someone would make their illness dominate them and their family so much.

OP posts:
SomethingAboutNothing · 23/03/2015 08:43

I don't really have any advice but just wanted to bump this for you so that someone else might see it and reply.

I would say though, that he musy be a very controlling man and found a way of controlling your DM that worked incredibly well. It is horrible that it had such an impact on your childhood, what a selfish man.

ratspeaker · 23/03/2015 08:45

Short answer is because he was a controlling arse.

Thistledew · 23/03/2015 08:47

You might well ask why any nasty, abusive wanker is a nasty, abusive wanker.

I people like this behave in a controlling way because they know that if they did not control the people around them then those people would not give them the attention they crave, but would tell them to fuck off.

Of course, if they actually behaved as a nice, decent person, then they would find people who liked them and wanted to spend time with them, but it must appear easier to them to get attention by control, rather than by taking all the risks of allowing others the choice about how they relate to them.

Most decent people accept that you can't make people like you or want to spend time with you and are willing to accept the risk that someone will not. Nasty people either believe that no one will like them if they are given this free choice, or just find it unacceptable that anyone would choose not to spend time with them.

hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 08:52

Yes, I do think a large part of why my mother stayed with him was that she believed he couldn't manage without her, that he would be dead within a week without her saving him.

It just seems so extreme.

OP posts:
Thistledew · 23/03/2015 08:54

It sounds like your mother was co-dependant to some degree. She may well have gained some sense of importance and being necessary out of his manufactured dependence on her.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 23/03/2015 08:54

I think you answered your own question in the title - because he's EA. He likes the control that his illness gives him over other people; he enjoyed causing upset and drama, so long as he was the centre of attention. Sounds like he never actually put himself at serious risk, so he was managing his "dramaz" very well.

But that aside, I will say that having disrupted blood sugar does create interesting mood issues, primarily a serious level of stubbornness. I used to work with a Type I diabetic who was a nightmare when her blood sugars were dropping for refusing to go on a break and have something to eat, when she clearly really needed to. She would get more and more irritable and stroppy until we literally had to force her out of the office to have a break.

However, she never engineered a situation where her diabetes would cause dramaz.

Miggsie · 23/03/2015 08:55

Sadly they use any tactic to trap people into becoming their slaves/victims.
Lundy Bancroft (google him) has some good insights into controlling men - they like what they do and they get off on it.

ratspeaker · 23/03/2015 08:58

Some people get a sort of 'high' after taking the insulin, so your dad may have been getting that as well as the emotional feedback of the fuss made over him.

When you think on it he could have made himself his own sandwich to eat in preparation to taking his insulin.
He could have waited to take his insulin a bit later at the big meals.
He could have done many things including following medical advice on dosage.

But he found a way of making the whole family dance around him, controlling everyones moves.

If he hadn't had diabetes would have found other ways to control and manipulate his family.

MerdeAlor · 23/03/2015 09:10

I was coming on here to comment that some people have difficult to control diabetes, usually because they have delayed absorption of food. However, reading your first post I can see this is not the case for your father.

Some people are self invested in their illness, the control it gives them, the attention it gives them, the power it gives them. The way your father behaves is manipulative in the extreme and it is clear from your post what a traumatic childhood you had as a result.

I agree with rat if he didn't use this to manipulate the family he would have found another way. I feel angry on your behalf that he put his need for attention and control before his responsibility as a parent. What a fucking arsehole.

hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 09:13

She may well have gained some sense of importance and being necessary out of his manufactured dependence on her. yes sadly I think this is true. She ran around after him when many would have walked out. Things are a bit better now she sees that there is an element of his choice, but she doesn't entirely believe it.

Some people get a sort of 'high' after taking the insulin yes he did say a few times that he enjoyed the feeling of recovering from a low blood sugar, that colours are more vibrant etc.

I also wonder what we should do when he manufactures these situations at big family events. I take a view that we should only suggest he eats something once, then ignore it.

OP posts:
hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 09:20

When he starts to act drunk from low blood sugar he refuses to have any, keeps his mouth shut, pushes people away etc. I don't know to what extent this is physiological rather than intentional. However I take the view that he puts himself into this state knowingly. So again I would offer him sugar but if he refuses either phone an ambulance (sorry NHS) or wait till he is semi conscious and give him in injection if at home (he has one at home). My mother thinks this is neglectful so she fusses around him trying to persuade him to take sugar.

Afterwards I would provide him some food (important to eat afterwards) but otherwise not talk about it and change the subject when he does.

Is that too strong? I also wonder if the ambulance coming etc is more enjoyable to him as it is more drama. But then the paramedics will often tell him off as they recognise him, which he hates.

OP posts:
MerdeAlor · 23/03/2015 09:31

Low Blood sugar will can make people with diabetes argumentative and reluctant to assist themselves. So maybe quite a lot of that was a physiological reaction.

Thistledew · 23/03/2015 10:07

Can you physically take his insulin from him so he doesn't take it too early?

Otherwise, if you have any say in arranging the family events, I would suggest telling him that he cannot come as he always manages to spoil it for others. Or say that it is better that he doesn't come as he can never manage to time his insulin right so you don't want to put him in a situation that is damaging to his health.

Fleecyleesy · 23/03/2015 10:15

He is a wicked nasty bastard. The diabetes was just one of the weapons he could use. I would keep the contact very very low.

Twinklestein · 23/03/2015 10:17

I would imagine that underneath he's a small insecure man with a big ego and very low self-esteem, who discovered a way to control the world around him and get 24/7 attention.

Generally abusive men are terrified of being alone or being left. He found a strategy to ensure your mum could never leave him.

It's a rather elaborate, perverse game of self-harm.

thatsnotmynamereally · 23/03/2015 10:56

Reading with interest-- it seems like you've got a good assesment of his situation. I was going to say, if your mother 'grew' into this position of co-dependent, it may not have been what she wanted to happen but the natural extension of her caring nature being exploited, but if you're seeing elements of codependency it may have been part of what drew them together. In my family, while growing up, being 'ill', ie 'coming down with something' was a get-out clause or excuse for any type of bad behaviour (thinking of my mother, bad behaviour normally occured when she'd consumed too much alcohol but later blamed it on sinus problems/antihistamines Hmm). In H's family, his brother has been so ill with so many things for many years (to be fair he is seriously ill) but I think that he uses the illness to get away with a lot of bad behaviour... codependent PIL's complain about the situation but have taken complete control and I believe, as a result, BIL's health is much worse as he gets to reliquish all responsibility when he is ill. But illness is such a no-go subject, you can't 'blame' someone for being ill so everyone has to tiptoe around the possible controlling issues underneath.

thatsnotmynamereally · 23/03/2015 10:59

twinkle that advice sounds spot-on.

tinymeteor · 23/03/2015 11:10

That's a crappy spiral to be caught in growing up OP, congrats on getting some distance and perspective. He sounds like a sad and rather unpleasant man.

The armchair psychoanalyst in me wonders if it's significant he got the diabetes in his teens, i.e the age he'd have been starting to form adult relationships with women. Has this pattern of using his illness to get/keep women's attention been going since then, do you think? Not an excuse but it will make it very hard for him to change after decades of getting the payoff he's after in terms of attention and control.

hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 12:40

Thistle, great advice about not inviting him and telling him why. I have actually not invited him to the next family event at my house (although I haven't told him he isn't invited, just haven't told him about it).

Yes I am going to keep contact minimal e.g. family events. I haven't told him this though, I've just drifted away. Perhaps I will tell him at some point.

Generally abusive men are terrified of being alone or being left. He found a strategy to ensure your mum could never leave him. He hates being alone for even a couple of hours, he really did ensure that she was constantly vigilant to him. His own mother died suddenly when he was early teens, maybe this is why. His own father was a bully, and he followed in his footsteps.

thatsnotmyname he used his diabetes as an excuse for being violent, although that was not true, his violent episodes did not correlate with his blood sugar.

Has this pattern of using his illness to get/keep women's attention been going since then, do you think? certainly with women he is friends with. I don't know about previous relationships. I know he was the least favoured of his siblings so perhaps his illness won him parental attention.

His doctor told him that all these unconscious episodes will accumulate brain damage, and that if you have frequent low blood sugar you lose physical awareness of future low blood sugar, so at some point I think he will lose awareness that he is doing this, although I am sure he is still aware now.

OP posts:
Hissy · 23/03/2015 12:42

Q: My question is- why would someone do this?

A: Because he can, and because it works.

Step away and let him do his worst.

Twinklestein · 23/03/2015 12:53

It's interesting that his mother died in his teens which is also around the time his diabetes came on.

He may have abandonment issues, and it sounds as if he's making sure your mother can never leave him like his mother did.

He draws your mother into his illness management - and makes her partially responsible for keeping him alive.

Some abusive men threaten to kill their partner if they ever try to leave, whereas your father is effectively threatening to kill himself - indirectly.

He clearly needs psychiatric help OP, not that I think for one moment he would ever take it. I think his doctors should have referred him when he refused to reduce his insulin dose.

Suzannewithaplan · 23/03/2015 14:38

it sounds like a shockingly high risk strategy for manipulating others

the risk of dying as a direct result is high

add to that the risk that all the people around him may be so pissed off and stressed by his activities that they might wish he was dead

Russian roulette

pocketsaviour · 23/03/2015 14:54

If he is a narcissist then he won't recognise the risk as he probably doesn't believe he will ever die. To him, the risk of being neglected/abandoned is more threatening than the risk of affecting his physical health - possibly fatally.

I don't think you can do any more, OP, except refuse to invite him out in future. You can also make it clear to your siblings/mum/cousins/DCs exactly why.

He was violent to your mum when you were younger? Was he violent towards you? I am guessing he has never apologised, just more blaming it on his illness Hmm

hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 17:21

pocket it is interesting that you say that as doesn't seem to believe that he will die. He stubbornly makes no plans for his old age for example. He is reckless with his own safety in other ways too.

Violence towards me, another reason why my mother didn't leave the house often, as she didn't think it was safe to leave me with him.

OP posts:
hilaryklingon · 23/03/2015 17:27

Does his behaviour sound narcissistic?

OP posts: