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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Close friend/boyfriend, and now my cancer diagnosis

57 replies

wallaby73 · 20/03/2015 20:12

Where to start? I split up with ex-DH 4 years ago, we share our DC's 50/50, very amicable. I then (after some time!) formed a relationship with a man who was part of my local friendship group - I knew him, or rather "knew of" him, as I'd never had much direct contact, his DC's went to my DC's school. He approached me upon learning I was then single, knew a bit about me through our mutual friends. He split from his ex maybe 2 years before.

What has followed is 4 years of lovely friendship, shared interested, huge amounts of fabulous sex to be honest, he restored how I felt about "me" as a woman, has done me a lot of good. He has said it has done the same for him. But it hasn't been easy, we have both struggled in the new landscape of "relationships post marriage", it's so different having intimate relationships with people who aren't the other parent to your children, and having come out of long marriages. We have never lived together; he has children as do I, we are both independent people and to be honest I wouldn't ever move a man into my home when my children (a young teen and a young child) live with me, personal choice really. He feels the same.

Where we seem to come unstuck in cycles, is he sometimes feels he doesn't "feel enough" for me, like he feels he should, and then begins to feel very uncomfortable with the intimate side of our relationship, whilst at the same time loving the friendship we have. Recently I have sensed this creeping up again so have taken a step back.

Last week I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I don't yet know the "full" picture, awaiting the scan results, but I know I have to have the full works - chemotherapy, surgery, radiotherapy. He has been great, has volunteered to take me to my scans, checks I am ok, but I sensed a backing off. So today I started "the conversation". I said that the last thing I wanted was to force him into a role emotionally where he felt uncomfortable, I don't want to rely on him like a boyfriend and the full role that that entails, when he felt uncomfortable anyway, but now I have been diagnosed with cancer, he was now trapped into as he is too damn polite to try and end an intimate relationship with a woman in this position. The last thing I want is someone who feels massively awkward. It went ok, we had a really honest conversation.

The upshot is he said he feels it is his absolute duty to me (as in, he WANTS to) see me through this, that he sees me as massively important in his life, hopes i do too, he wants to take a really active role, but in the end, he is not "in love" with me. So there we have it. There is no way he would have come out with this had I not laid it all out, in a "come on, let's have it, I can sense something is wrong, you need to tell me now, not when I'm half way through bloody chemotherapy" kind of way.

So I'm not sure what my question is. I just feel ..... A bit embarrassed, sad that it took a cancer diagnosis to bring things to a head, and also now I have to go through this as a single person.....even though I have lots of great friends. I don't know. I feel sort of frightened and bereft all at once. Basically, fecking pooballs.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 20/03/2015 20:18

I'm so sorry you had that diagnosis. It must be incredibly hard for you.

Thanks

He sounds like a great friend and there's no reason why that should change. He's such a good friend that, at a time when all he would want was to care for you, he's told you straight that he's not ultimately the man for you. How much better to know this now. So many men would have gulped and said "Of course I love you" because they could see how much you were hurting from your diagnosis. He's not done that.

You didn't want to live with him and that's worked out well, now. He was a great friend. He still is. I hope he's the best friend that you really need right now.

JontyDoggle37 · 20/03/2015 20:19

I didn't want to read and run. I'm so sorry to hear about your diagnosis and think you're really brave for tackling the man issue head on. Time to step back and put you first I think. When you've recovered, set about finding someone who truly wants all of you, not its when he feels like it. Very best of wishes OP X

Hassled · 20/03/2015 20:20

But did you think he was "in love" with you before all this? Or did it just not matter so much? Your paragraph describing your relationship - "4 years of lovely friendship" etc doesn't sound like romantic love -it just sounds like a lovely friendship - and isn't that enough? He wants to help you, because he cares about you - maybe he'll still be around in your old age, and maybe he'll have moved on, but for now, when you need friendly help, he's there for you.

I'm really sorry about your diagnosis - you must be all over the place. But start getting your head around that (if such a thing is even possible) before you start trying to get your head around your relationship - and in the meantime, don't stop using the support he's offering. He sounds like a nice guy.

sus14 · 20/03/2015 20:34

Hi, I think you have absolutely done the right thing, what you don't need is someone resenting you or someone you have to buoy up when you go through this. Having a good friend where it is clear they are just that would be just the thing I think.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer 6 years ago. I am now cancer free, and I had a pretty aggressive form. I'm telling you that because at some point, when you're through all the "fighting" chemo bit, you'll probably start struggling, and I know at that point I needed all the positive stories I could get so I always feel duty bound to let people who have just been diagnosed that - hey I'm still here!!

the way it worked for me was that I had the week of having chemo, felt a bit shit, and then the next week really shit, and then the third week, really ok (that's when you red blood cells come back up). So you'll need help with childcare from the chemo day for about 10 days I think, although it will help that your kids are at school. Not sure if he would do that or not but one way he could REALLY help is to make you a ton of food - high fibre stuff especially as I got agonisingly constipated during chemo and needed to eat carefully. (I also found reflexology really helped with this if you suffer it).

So as he wants to help you, as a friend, give him practical things to do- filling up your freezer, if he is close to your kids maybe taking them out for a day at the weekend during the week you feel shit - if that's appropriate.

Honestly the emotional support is better had from the macmillan nurses, or my hospital had a cancer counsellor. It's such a massive horrible thing and I found most people couldn't really cope with it. But that's just my circle!

Feel free to pm me anytime. Since I am now separated I can't massively help with relationship advice but happy to give ideas for what he could do to help as your very good friend, if that's what you want him to do.

wallaby73 · 20/03/2015 21:04

Thanks for all your messages, wow. Hassled - it has been at times massively passionate, but firmly underlaid by a good friendship. He could be hugely romantic, brilliant cook ...... But every now and then I could sense he struggled connecting with me on an emotional level. His marriage break down was particularly harrowing, and when I first met him I was incredibly vulnerable. So we had a few faltering starts and stops.....and at times I found it very painful.

But somehow, I don't know, through watching crap science fiction, working our way through his music collection and me challenging him on his massive ego and making him laugh at himself, we just got on really well. We've both I think found ourselves massively sexually compatible in a way that neither of us has had before and that's intoxicating, and possibly led us both to ignore that actually, long term, we're better off as friends. It seemed too tough to face that but now, well, it's like he really wants to help and support, but feels really guilty and wrong having a sexual relationship with me.......I suppose I mistook the affection and intimacy for love, and we haven't communicated very clearly.....whereas he is a friend who is clearly very very fond of me, is attracted to me...but ultimately is not in love with me. I thought it best to out it all now really. It wasn't easy!

Sus - I really appreciate you telling me your story. At the moment I am at the stage of knowing it's stage 2, hormone receptive (a good thing) but only just had the bone and CT scans and don't know the results til Tuesday. Swaying from hopeful to cold hard terror hourly really......Blush

OP posts:
Hassled · 20/03/2015 21:34

Do you think it's going to be too hard to keep seeing him on these new "friends" terms now?

I wish I had some constructive advice - all I can say is your diagnosis was only last week; you must be in such a state of shock. Don't rush into any big decisions.

derxa · 21/03/2015 07:27

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. ( Been through it myself 4 years ago stage 2 hormone receptive mastectomy breast reconstruction)
If this guy says he wants to help and he is honest enough to say he is not in love with you then I would say he's a good guy (for now). In fact people are neither straight heroes or villains as you know. If it's possible just take love and help as it's offered and try not to analyse too much. You are about to be plunged into into the crazy world of treatment for breast cancer.
Your views on the world and other people are going to turn upside down. Some people who you regarded as friends may disappear off the face of the earth, others come up trumps. (I am now a cynical old bag- try not to let that happen to you)
Best of luck with everything. I wish you courage in getting through treatment whatever that might be.
If I'm really being honest I would say hang on to him for the sex alone. Strangely enough the most healing thing after my mastectomy was having sex with husband.

wallaby73 · 21/03/2015 08:19

Just typed a reply and poof! "Connection failed", gone!

Hassled - I don't know now. I've woken this morning feeling quite angry with him. In February, for Valentine's Day, he took me away for a surprise, on the last day he'd also gone to the effort of booking somewhere unique for lunch. I am wondering why (and asked him so yesterday) why he went to all that effort, if he finds the emotional side such a difficulty - taking a woman away for the weekend is not something "mates" do. He couldn't really explain it. Maybe the cancer has thrown everything into sharp relief.

It is dawning on me that maybe he has had his cake and eaten it - he's had this "best mate" who has been his lover all this time (isn't best mates and lovers essentially what a relationship should be?) but as neither of us wants to enter into a cohabiting situation, he hasn't had to show any huge commitment ......... Have I been a glorified FWB these past four years? Is he just a coward?

I don't know, I am probably not the best judge right now as my emotions are all over the place. But thank you for the messages - PP, thanks also for sharing your story - mine is also hormone receptive, apparently it's a good thing. When they talked of surgery, they said it may not be a mastectomy, but it's so early this could change when I meet with my consultant on Tuesday for the big reveal. Ugh.

OP posts:
derxa · 21/03/2015 08:39

Let's hope it's not a mastectomy but if it is then you'll get through it.
A cancer diagnosis can sort the wheat out from the chaff. If this man is insincere then he won't stay around.

wallaby73 · 21/03/2015 08:50

Quite right derxa. And it's also if he does stay around, is it all to serve his ego...."get me, doing the right thing, no really, it's no bother....." Or maybe I am being overly cynical!!

I have wondered if they do a mastectomy just on my left side, assuming (!)my right is cancer free, how on earth will my boobs ever match again??

OP posts:
derxa · 21/03/2015 09:22

You may 'only' need a lumpectomy. I had a DIEP flap reconstruction a year after mastectomy. My boobs match perfectly in size. I have only just had the appointment in to reconstruct the nipple. There are many options though. Go to breast cancer.org uk forum /website to find out. The consultant will ask what you want to do. It might be a good idea to be a bit prepared.
Dx

Branleuse · 21/03/2015 09:38

i think you need to stop sleeping with him. keep him as a friend but back off emotionally He might be a nice person but you dont need a confusing headfuck situation.

wallaby73 · 21/03/2015 09:46

Thank you derxa, I will do just that. Lots to think about. Bran - already stopped the intimate side, he tends to back off first, and that was my cue for the "conversation"....

OP posts:
Smudgeandpudge · 21/03/2015 09:49

Hello OP. I too am a reluctant member of the cancer club. Stage 2 is very early, so that's good news and (please don't take this the wrong way!) sometimes I feel jealous of women with breast cancer because your survival rates are so good compared to what I hav, where the rates suggest I'll be lucky to see the year out! Good luck. As an aside, not everyone has a terrible time on chemo. It was ok for me. G

pocketsaviour · 21/03/2015 10:42

Sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

Regarding him taking you away for valentines, etc, is it possible he's been trying to "make" himself love you? Or convince himself that it's love, iyswim? He doesn't sound a bad person at all and I think it's great he's been honest now. I hope he can still be supportive as a friend during your treatment.

wallaby73 · 21/03/2015 11:01

Pocket, you have a very fair point there. It is entirely possibly he was really hoping he would come to feel that way, and realises that he just doesn't.

I just want to add this really isn't the "main thing" on my mind at the moment, I don't want to waste my time obsessing over what is actually possibly a really good friend, who seems to value me in so many ways, but ultimately it's the wrong fella. As this relationships board is so bloody good at support and teasing problems apart, providing fresh viewpoints, I've found it really helpful posting this small yet fucking depressing aspect of my current predicament on here. And I just know today or tomorrow he'll move to the angelic phase....."you're such an angel, you're amazing, I'm really sorry" blah blah.

I'm really not an angel, I shall have to find some cruel dark humour to deal with this. Or in the words of dumbledore , "happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light". Amen professor.

OP posts:
MyDHhasnomemory · 21/03/2015 12:12

Sorry about your diagnosis and Thanks for Smudgeandpudge.

derxa · 21/03/2015 12:18

I promise there will be many opportunities for cruel dark humour. I remember once I was having radiotherapy. The radiotherapists were usually jolly women or respectful men. On this occasion the radiotherapist was a really cocky man. I felt uncomfortable lying there stripped to the waist. He said, "Are you all right?". I replied, "Well I was just thinking that you are so good looking maybe we could meet up later for a date." He didn't bat an eyelid. When I told this story to the next rth, she said that I shouldn't have said this as he was so arrogant that he probably took me seriously.

Twinklestein · 21/03/2015 12:55

I'm really sorry about the cancer OP, good luck with your treatment.

As regards your friend, do you feel about him? You talk a lot about how he feels...

Are you in love with him? Or do you see him more as a friend?

wallaby73 · 21/03/2015 16:14

Smudge, bloody hell. Thanks

How do I feel about him? Well, I do love him. I really do, not in a hearts and flowers and adoration kind of way, just a very real way, I've now known him so long, we have shared a lot of our pasts, he's talked out all sorts of parts of his life with me and I know him so well, and I like the person he is. We have an instinctive "click", he knows exactly what sort of comedy I like, will save things up for us to watch together, cook me lovely food. He has had 2 back surgeries and I was the only one he allowed to see him in masses of pain.....just, that really. We've spent many nights together waking in the early hours and just talking and talking, to me that is what a relationship is. But.....his definition of "being in love" it turns out is not this, it's the being unable to speak when in the same room, being swept off his feet, the palpitations......and as he doesn't feel that with me, he feels it's not right. Actually, I think he lives on a different planet!

OP posts:
shovetheholly · 21/03/2015 16:24

Oh OP, I'm so sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Flowers (And Flowers for all those other women battling cancer on this thread).

What I wanted to say was that I think there are many, many kinds of relationship - and that phrase 'I love you, but I'm not "in love" with you' doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the emotional complexities that can exist. I personally think the hearts-flowers-and-fluttering stuff is some of the more superficial side of love, because it tends to be transient.

It sounds to me as though what you have with this man is a very, very deep connection of some kind, which actually goes deeper and further than the relationship that many couples share. I kind of hope that what will happen is that he'll realise that it's this that is actually what matters in time.

I think cancer can be a very destabilising illness, not just for the person at the centre of it but for everyone around them. People react oddly to the fear and do all kinds of bonkers things, including upending relationships. Is it possible that this could be one such reaction?

catsrus · 21/03/2015 16:39

Ah - your last post makes perfect sense to me wallaby. It was the same with me and my exH - I thougt the fact we had very different models of a marriage made it interesting, but it just meant that for him it was never enough.

We were together 24yrs and people were totally SHOCKED when we split. He said that for him marriage was about gazing adoringly into the eyes / soul of the partner (children come second to that) I said it was about standing shoulder to shoulder together facing the world and putting the children first. I thought our marriage worked because we could do the shoulder to shoulder bit, he never really felt he had the marriage he wanted. He then met an OW who also wanted to gaze endlessly into the eyes of a beloved. So that's what they do when they're not in a screaming match evidently.

When the shock of his going faded I felt relief, I had not realised how exhausting it had been never being good enough for him. We parted amicably and I do still love him, and I would still be married if he had not been brave enough to make the move.

Sounds like he could be a good friend at this difficult time, but I have personally come to the conclusion that people need to share a vison of what their perfect relationship would look like. It seems like your vision is different to his.

TheoriginalLEM · 21/03/2015 16:44

it sounds to me like he is scared of losing you. not because of the cancer but because of the way your relationship has gone. it sounds like you have both put up barriers to giving the last bits of yourselves to avoid getting hurt.

my friend had breast cancer last year and had a difficult year on treatment. she got through it though and is cancer free. It was "just" a year out of her life. we looked at it that way. its now a memory although not distant just yet.

You need to do what you need to do to get through this next year. take things one day at a time. Who knows what having to go through this together will do to any relationship or friendship. most likely it will be make or break and probably is for many couples. my friend has changed. she became very angry - who can blame her!

right now your job is to fuck off the cancer - if he can help you through that by taking you to appointments and listen to your worries and be a sounding board for decisions let him. The "relationshop" can wait.

Twinklestein · 21/03/2015 16:59

Sounds like he's got a very Barbara Cartland idea of love, which is presumably why he's divorced...

If he wants to be swept off his feet and get divorced again there's nothing you can do. It's not that you're not enough for him or you've done anything wrong, he just has a different concept of love.

I would focus all your energies on fighting the cancer, count your blessings that he's there for you as a friend. Life will look very different when you come out the other side.

RandomMess · 21/03/2015 17:08

I too think the bloke is delusional about what being "in love" is - that intoxicating physical chemistry is not it. That is the chemicals of believing the other person is the right one and blinds you to all else. The real "in love" is knowing someone well, their faults and their positives and loving them deeply enough to accept their faults.

I wish you all the best with your diagnosis Flowers