Help me solve a marital issue (long!)

[MrsWood]

Not gonna change my nickname as I don't think it matters anyway. I will try and explain best I can, and as quickly as I can. DH and I are in a very fiery relationship. When we got married 10 years ago we loved eachother (well, at least I loved him). He takes his work as the number 1 priority, which mostly got in the way of everything - such as, we never had a honeymoon as it was "unprofessional" for him to take time to take me somewhere, so he promised he'd do it later on. He never did, and once we had our dd it was almost impossible. The days he spent working, the evenings he spent playing computer games and was too tired for any sexual encounters. We had very lousy sex life, and I was so depressed with his constant work priorities and no sex interest that I started nagging about littlest of thing such as forgetting to take the rubbish out etc. We even had our own business which didn't help our relationship - arguments about the business and staff were constant. We would have awful arguments but somehow still managed to have some fun - we went to cinema and restaurants a lot, we spent a lot of time trying but it still all ended in tears. Our dd was born 7 years into our relationship, but things didn't improve. Especially in the bedroom. He didn't take any interest in trying to improve things and make me happy - empty promisses were all I had. We argued more. We then decided to move abroad, end the business, and start afresh. We even (almost a year ago) started trying for another baby - almost November and still nothing. We have sex twice a month at the most, and then he either can't finish or stay hard long enough to finish. We again started arguing, and I asked him few days ago whether it was because I was bigger than we first met (I used to be 9.5 stone, now I'm 11 stone) - he said it didn't help and that he felt like this for few years now, and that that's biology and he can't do much about the fact he doesn't fancy me in the bedroom anymore. He said he might again, but wasn't sure. We have a dd to think about, so divorce is kind of crap solution, but I am not sure if I can move forward (like he wants to) knowing he doesn't find me attractive. Any thoughts?

MrsWood, I think counselling is a great option for two reasons:

1. You can talk to dh with a mediator, who, if good at their job, will keep the conversation on track and notice if it descends into petty squabbling.
2. It sounds to me like dhs issues are medical, and a counsellor will be able to recognise this and recommend courses of action.

I have to say that I don't think him not wanting you means he doesn't love you. His low sex drive may be the cause of something as simple as a poor diet or not enough exercise.

I think that outside of counselling your best options are making sure that you both stay really, really open about how you view both the emotional and physical aspects of your relationship, but also, try and treat him the way you want to be treated (and let him know that's what you desire!) If you want him to seduce you, maybe try and seduce him the way you fancy, but let him know that these are the things that turn you on.

My two cents anyway. I hope there's something in there to help you.

Sorry, didn't see the last post when I posted.
Sounds like a terrible night (for both of you).
Stay honest!

Thanks - the trouble with seducing him etc. is that I don't really feel wanted (or sexy) enough for it - after some of his comments all I want to do is go on a crazy hunger strike, lose weight and show him what he can't have anymore. I'd be gutted if I lost weight and he suddenly found me sexy I'd feel cheated in a way if he now, after the arguments, wanted to sleep with me - like it was all put on for the sake of peace in the relationship. I'm willing to, for the sake of my young family, give it a go on the basis that he takes more time for us, and obviously, for the arguments to stop, and maybe one day for something more. Physical relationship is out of the question (for now at least - until my confidence grows). I can't say fairer than that. I will consider councelling if all else fails, and if they can't help then I guess divorce is the best option, or at least a separation of some kind. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

What do you mean by "if all else fails?" From your posts it seems tht you and he are trying to deal with this alone, between yourselves, and that it's just going around in circles.
I don't mean to sound critical, I'm just wondering how long you're going to let yourself suffer before you realise that it's time to try something new. I truly believe that the course you're taking at the moment is contributing to your low self-esteem, as you just keep butting your head against the same old wall.

I can see your point but I almost want to see what happens within the next few days / weeks with the whole trying thing. After 10 years I owe myself that we do that first - as soon as councelling is needed I won't say no to it. I really just want to try and sort some of the issues first. Like I said before, sex thing is a bit difficult to fix, councelling or not. I can't imagine a councellor is going to convince me I'm beautiful, or my dh that he really wants me in the bedroom. I guess that would come after all the smaller issues are addressed - we know the way forward and what it would take to improve some aspects of our relationship - so why not try, right?

sounds like the sex symptoms are the least of your problems - and jus that - a symptom.

You need to get to counselling as a couple to work out what you saw in each other in the first place - and where it has gone. You say he worked too much and didn't give you enough attention, so you ended up nagging. He is exhausted and fed up with being nagged, so doesn't feel like sex. Then you say lets have a baby - adds more pressure to perform - he doesn't, you get more upset and nag more. Vicious circle. Your weight is just a convenient excuse - not the real issue.

Forget the baby for a while - work out if you are still a viable couple - if not then work out a way to split amicably for the sake of your DD, and so that you both have a chance to find a better realtionship.

Good luck.

Thanks, the baby thing won't happen for a while anyway - and he wanted it (he said so at the time) as much as I did - we both wanted a big family. I get that nagging doesn't help the bedroom - but why initiate sex if you can't be bothered? I'm not even pushing for sex - it was just a part of marriage that I wanted every now and again - especially if we're trying for a baby. He does have a low sex drive, and never was too interested (well, when we met, he wanted it all the time but that was about the only time).

Hello MrsWood, what a miserable time you and your DH are having. I notice that he's also reading this and that is a very good sign, he's recognising the fact that there's a problem, and he's not using misdirected anger (as so often happens) to try and pretend nothing is wrong.

I don't like the thought of your only turning to counselling "if all else fails". Counselling isn't a sign of weakness. If you had a dog and it got run over by a car you wouldn't give it a couple of weeks to see if it could survive without the vet before taking it to be checked over. If you thought your daughter had meningitis you wouldn't hang on for a while using paracetomol and hot drinks at home before taking her to the hospital if all else failed. Do you see what I mean? Counselling is so much better as a first resort, and is much more likely to work if you have not exhausted all your other resources first. It isn't something to be ashamed of, it's sensible. It shows commitment to the other partner. It's simply seeking guidance from an expert who has the benefit of detachment from the petty issues that sidetrack you and the expertise and training to spot the nub of the problem inside what you show on the surface.

It looks like he's very unhappy and not being sexually satisfied but really wants things to work because he suggested counselling. A lot of other people would just leave in those circumstances. It sounds it's worth saving to me but you both need to accept fault and both need to talk a lot about it. People often put weight on in relationships when they're not happy so in a sense he may have even "caused" that although looking for who to blame isn't very constructive.

Girls, you were right - I can't even begin to solve this issue... Counselling it is. ASAP!
Went out last tonight to try and enjoy ourselves. I felt really out of place, barely even looking at him all evening... It was uncomfortable to say the least. When we got back home, we actually managed to have a laugh together so overall, went surprisingly ok(ish) in the end. Today we kind of went along fine all day, with few decent discussions, few laughs etc. I actually thought we could get somewhere with this. Then this evening we dropped off dd at my mum's (to stay the night), decided we will go to cinema. On the way there I said it'd be nice to maybe park at town (instead of cinema complex), have a little walk, meal somewhere, drink and THEN go to cinema by tram or walking. I thought it'd be nice to have some quality time together. He didn't say yes or no to that, so I added : "...or we can go to cinema first and do the rest afterwards if you'd prefer..." I again expected a yes or no or some response at least, but he just says "I don't mind", so without waiting for my response of what I'd prefer then (if he can't be asked to make a choice) he continues driving to cinema. When I asked why we're not going to town first as I suggested (and apparently he didn't mind either way), he said he thought we'd decide at the cinema what we'll do. (!?) Basically, he missed the whole conversation of my plan for the evening. I was a bit annoyed he couldn't be bothered to collaborate at the time, and then did third thing completely... Turned into another meaningless argument - he doesn't know what he did wrong, I can't understand that, if we're TRYING to be civil, have a conversation, he can't be asked to discuss something simple like plan for the evening. It didn;t really matter about THAT discussion at all (it could have been about whatever - I just wanted to start some conversation) If he didn't mind what we did and in which order, maybe I blimming did! I just thought it would be nice that I don't end up bloody planning the WHOLE thing - it's about both of us, not just what I want! Anyway, finally went to town to try and do what I suggested (not really the same after bickering) and I started telling him how I feel, how I wish he was a bit more attentive towards me, how I really liked how he used to buy me flowers and surprise me with smallest of things... (all this before we got married by the way!). He said he doesn't see himself as a romantic but "IF I WANTED HIM TO BE", he would... WTF? If I wanted him to do nice things, he would? Nice, very "romantic and spontanious". Not to mention that I spoke about how I feel for good hour whilst we eat dinner, in which time he said very little, and when he finaly did it was something like: "Tell me what task you'd like me to do, and I'll do it - if you want me to buy you gifts, I will" - this is after an hour of telling him how I'm feeling and how I'd hope he was towards me (if he still loved me at all). To think he can't think of ONE little, spontanious, surprising, thoughtfull thing he'd like to do for me, after knowing me inside and out for 10 years, then I'm not sure how we'll get through this I'm lost for words. I was so angry and so disappointed that after presenting his lovely side to him BEFORE we got married, from wedding night onwards treated me like nothing mattered or deserve any special attention... To top it all, he finishes the night with "Did you still want to go to cinema?" Utterly stupid question. I felt like leaving him there and then, not f*king going to cinema to watch Borat! Men are so unbelivable!

Hopefully counselling might help but here's one extra little suggestion - plase bear in mind that I don't know you or your partner but this is something I've observed over years: it's possible that you're buying into the myth of "if he really loved me he could read my mind and do all the romantic things without being told".
I also get the impression from your posts that both of you are suffering depressive symptoms - again counselling especially CBT would probably be useful.
Best of luck.

The thing is that I have told him on many occassions what I like so I'm not making him guess my interests... he just takes everything for granted - apparently we're happy (!?).

One thing tonight I said that unlike him I think with my heart etc. - he made a stupid joke how that's not medically possible (!!!!!)... This is what he does on the brink of divorce - a child in between it all, marriage to be saved, 10 years to be thought of... Doesn't take me seriously at all. And certainly doesn't seem to care about my feelings.

SittingBull - thanks, we both read the Venus Mars book years ago - trouble is, he takes it as his excuse with every argument - "you know men are like this, women are like that, bla bla..." Funny how he wasn't like that before we got married. Then he'd try his hardest to be this person I'd like, but after the marriage - doesn't it matter anymore? Don't people have to be nice to eachother anymore? Especially if what they ask you to sacrifice something in order to get something more later on - which never happens? One good example of this is: When we got married, he started his new job and was very dedicated - I can fully understand he wanted to impress his bosses. I don't however understand that any company would find it inapropriate to take a week off for your HONEYMOON. And even if they did, my dh promised that as soon as the work allows he'd take the time off to take me somewhere nice... Bear in mind he had 20 days holiday per year at the time - any time he took off were usually 2-3 days at one time, at the most, and then he'd say we don't have money, but when we do... And so on catch 22 until now - I'm still waiting 10 years on. I know what men can be like, and what us women can be like, and what's a cliche and so on, but I also believe that marriage can't survive without compromise. I waited on him for 10 years to: make his money, to get a career, to have his own business etc. Been patient hoping for an outcome that he promised but nothing. At the most I get a "sorry honey" and on to the next empty promise. I wish his "sorry" were followed with "here are some flowers for being so patient and believing in me, I've booked us a weekend away somewhere nice, away from work, for us to spend some time together"... Hell no, too much to ask! In the meantime we had 2 m/cs, failed business (7 years of hell where we had NO time off, not even a lousy Bank Holiday!), and thankfully a lovely, healthy dd that still keeps me believing that some day, we will be a happy family.

i can feel your frustration just by reading your posts,but im with everbody else,you both need councelling!i think men assume that 'talking' means 'nagging' after a while,so switch off from whatever you are saying,whether you put it in a calm,assertive way,or start screaming and shouting.i envy mens' ability to 'switch off',i wish i could do that when ds and dd1 are arguing or whining.
isnt it quite normal for men to stop buying flowers and being spontaneous after the first 6 months of a relationship?

it sounds like you still love each other,and just need a bit of help with communicating.

Have tried being calm with dh and am really losing my patience now - he seems to do nothing at all to help resolve any of the issues - it's difficult to even be civil to him anymore. I feel like he's going out of his way to upset me!
This morning on the way out I told him I needed to buy some bread, and 10 seconds after that he had forgotten all about it. Then he made up some excuse about "with all that's going on...". I'm talking 10 seconds! Same thing happened few days ago, we were on our way to my parents' and I asked him to stop off at the shop as mum asked me to bring some salt... He acknowlidged me at the time, but forgot by the time we reached their place. Then said he must've misunderstood me... Few other little things happened in the meantime, all along the same lines, and I now feel like he's doing it on purpose as he wants to prove I can't make it without being angry at "simplest of things"... It's not about the actual jobs I asked him to do - it's about him trying, and it has to start with little things for me to think he can handle bigger ones. I was so angry at him tonight - he was smirking at me, and laughing for being so worked up over something, I lost it. I told him to stop, and he goes "...or what?". Now, that's just asking for a volcano to erupt. I grabbed dd'd drink and chucked it at him with all my force! Sadly, dd was close by and started crying (mainly as it was HER drink I spilled and she liked it). We convinced her it was an accident, but she's not going to believe things like that forever. Last thing I want is for her to suffer through this. I was sorry I did it in front of her, but I must say, I lost my plot. There is nothing worse then when you're upset, and need someone to understand you, they laugh AT you. Jerk! I've taken a step of confinding into a very good friend of mine, and she has been very supportive. I've asked him to do the same, as he might find it a bit helpfull like I did. My dh thinks it's stupid as "why should anyone else know of our problems?"... Kind of defeats the councelling choice then - which may be a problem anyway - it will be difficult to find any here that speak English!

2 days and hardly any changes - tried talking to him again, he just sits there emotionless and then when he does speak it's not very motivating. He apparently doesn't know if he still loves me, doesn't care if I decide to seek attention elsewhere, and what's worse, thinks I'd never do it - has he given me the reason not to? All I've heard was how much he doesn't care, so I'm not sure I would say "no" to some male attention right now, and that's not to say it has to be an affair or anything like that. Besides, saying I'd do that, I was merely looking for some sort of reaction, for some glimpse of jelaousy, but nothing, he maintains emotionless. He says he'll cross that bridge when and if it comes to it (WTF?!). I KNOW I'd care! I don't need few days to think about whether I love him or not, apparently he does. Not really something I can do about. I'm off on a girls' night out with the rest of "desperate housewives" gang and am actually hoping to get some attention to boost my confidence if nothing else and feel that, if he ever left, I still "got it". I hope I'm not disappointed tonight. I also hope he'd be all inquisitive when I get back, but I'm not expecting too much

mrswood - just to say I understand totally how it feels when your so called DH doesn't seem capable of showing any love, or communicating emotionally. It's gutting. Wish I had some wise words for you, but I can say I sympathise... Have a good night out tonight!

My ex didn't believe I would ever divorce after 20 years. It was when I saw a solicitor, told him, sat him down and in words of one syllable told him what was goind to happen, found him his own lawyer, that it sunk in. He refused all my compromises like him getting a job away in the week or a separation etc.

Been out, got hammered and got attention I was looking for. Unfortunately, I'm ashamed to say it went a little further with some kissing - wasn't necessary, but it made me feel different, better. Naturally, told dh as soon as I got home, but I was so drunk, all I could do is go to bed. Woke up at 6.45am to find the bed empty - he was sleeping downstairs. Funny, the whole episode from that night made me want to jump him as soon as I saw him downstairs, but I wasn't sure how my advances would be met, so I decided against it at the last minute. Managed to get him upstairs again for another couple of hours nap, but was so dizzy still to try again. I thought "How stupid was I to let this happen, now he won't want to look at me anymore, let alone resolve anything"... but completely the opposite. I think he was shocked I was willing to go that far. It worked though, he's been communicating with me finally. We'll see what happens now. One step at the time.

Ok, I've said it now, I confessed, and am ready for forum fireworks (please be gentle!)

i can understand why you did that.i did similar to my bd of an ex who didnt believe i would leave him after 4 years of having the s**t kicked out of me.he would always say nobody else would want me cos i was so fat and ugly anyway.so i proved him wrong.
what it didnt do was sort our relationship out.he just started being even more of a bd.what it did do was make me realise i could live without him,that every bit of love i'd ever felt for him had died,and it gave me the push i needed to end our relationship for good.

I'm so utterly confused, since Saturday we have finally stopped arguing, had a semi nice sex on Sunday (I think he initiated it for the wrong reasons, but we did it anyway). On Monday we talked more, got on well during the day, in the evening cuddled for ages, then he initiated sex again, and this time it felt fantastic - for both of us. Unfortunately, he never wanted to kiss me AT ALL. I asked him why not and he suddenly turned cold and said I shouldn't push the issue, and that he can't kiss me. It didn't make any sense, he felt fine doing every possible thing to me whilst having sex, but kissing was out of the question. I was very upset, and felt like a whore none the less... When I told my friend, she just made a "maybe he should just leave you some money on the night stand afterwards then" comment. It summed my feelings right up. So, yesterday I woke up with the feeling this shouldn't ruin everything, but was determined to try again. I made sure we had another fab day, my mum took our dd to stay overnight, so we really had enjoyable time... He said he had a headache, so when we went to bed, I just cuddled him. He then started the whole sex thing, and later said he doesn't know why as he didn't feel like doing it etc. He still disdn't kiss me, or tried to. I tried but he'd just turn away. I felt crap again, and told him he either forgives and moves on with things as a whole, or he can leave me, as he now really has a valid reason if he was ever lacking one. He said "fine", turned around and fell asleep. This morning he hugged me, so I thought he took the first option, but he said he still doesn't want to kiss me, and he isn't sure he will ever feel the way I feel. Then he also made a point of saying that he enjoyed the last few days purely because we didn't argue at all, but that there was nothing else there - apparently, he never even had an urge to kiss me, even during sex, and he certainly didn't feel like hugging me. So, basically I'm out of ideas now - wtf does he want from me then?