Need to establish a more adult-adult relationship with my parents!

[BusyHomemaker]

Sorry in a advance for the long post.

I really just need some tips/advice on how to assert myself with my parents. In recent years (and at times in the past) I have found them to be suffocating and controlling. They mean well but they see me as a child who needs protection from the big bad world. It is having quite an impact on my well being. I feel the need to seek their approval and at the same time am constantly battling against them when ever I make decisions... no matter how big or small.

I am 33, lone parent to 3yo DD. I am currently going through a divorce and ended up moving back to my home town. I am in counselling for the second time since I left stbxh over two years ago... the first was to deal with EA and dealing with being a lone parent and this time around it's to help with anxiety (now almost under control!), self confidence and my relationship with my parents.

My parents are decent people and very loving but they are just too emotionally invested in my life and I often feel guilty for disappointing them. They are very close to DD but they interfere terribly, which is frustrating for me and confusing for DD. In a recent counselling session it became clear that they treat DB and DS the same but I suffer the brunt of it as for some reason I am more available to them. I am a people pleasure, which doesn't help!

I am at a point in my life where I have gained a lot of my confidence back and no longer feel vulnerable but for some reason my parents do not respect me.

I'm desperate to move out of my home town to a bigger city. My parents are aware of this but are desperate for me to stay. Between uni and getting married I have lived away from hometown and DP know about my aspirations.

I called DM earlier to update her on my job hunting (I'm currently applying for full time jobs - returning to work is quite a big deal for me) and talk about eclipse (she'd texted me about it earlier) and it went something like this...
Me: Hi, I've just had a great appointment with Brook St
DM: Brook St, isn't that in London?"
Me: No, in hometown. You know I'd love to live in London again but can't afford it. I'm actually thinking about moving to Manchester but won't be until the end of the year. Anyway, I'm waiting to hear back about...
DM: What will you do about babysitters?
ME: Baby sitters?
DM: Yes, babysitters. I won't be able to babysit if you live in Manchester.
Me: I'm sure I'll make friends.
DM: Well, I'll be too far away. You won't get any time to yourself.
Me: DD's dad will be less than an hour away so her routine won't be disrupted and she'll get to stay with him every other weekend. Anyway, I doubt I'll need or want a babysitter for a while as I will be focusing on helping DD settle into our new area.
DM: Don't mention it to your dad. He'll just worry about you.
Me: Why?
DM: He always worry about you and you'll be so far away.
ME: It's only 2.5 hours away.
DM: Yes, I remember the journeys to visit Auntie... You don't know anyone there. You'll be lonely. You get lonely here so you'll be lonely there.
Me: Right, well I won't be lonely as I'll be working and will meet people in the local area.
DM: Manchester's too expensive you can't afford to live there.
Me: Have you actually checked out rents? I have and it's not much more than round here. I'd like to move to Sale, they have great schools in the Trafford area.
DM: You just ask so and so and what's her name, a three bedroom house in that area costs blah blah blah...
Silence.
Me: Any way, I just wanted to let you know about the jobs I've been put forward for.
DM: I think you're making a mistake.
Me: Mmmm, I'm in Fatface, they have some lovely stuff at the moment. You should take a look next time you're...
DM: Can you afford to go shopping? You haven't got any money!
Me: I just popped in to have a look whilst I was on the phone to you. Mum, why are you so rude to me? Would you have said that to anyone else? I feel that you and Dad are often rude to me and I don't know why you do it.
DM: I'm not being rude I just know you haven't got any money. I need to carry on with my work now.
Me: Bye...

Rang DB feeling totally deflated. He advised that I call her and explain that she upset me because I always bottle these things up and it's not healthy. I need to stand up to DPs more so that they are more respectful.

I call DM...
DM: (In floods of tears) You've really hurt me my heart is breaking!
Me: Sorry, I don't understand. Why is your heart breaking?
DM: I knew you didn't like me but now I realise that you hate me!
Me: I don't hate you. Is this because I'm moving away? You and Dad have always known that's what I'm going to do.
DM: You've really hurt me and I've been sitting here crying and my heart is breaking.
Me: I'm really sorry I didn't mean to upset you. I was actually calling because you upset me. I feel like you don't respect me as an adult and I'm 33! I want to share my news with you and it's so hard because you and dad never seem to listen, instead you tell me that I'm wrong and what I should be doing.
After a bit of small talk and awkward silences DM ended the call.

Gah! This is so petty!!! I realise this.

How do I stop acting like a teenager around my parents and earn their respect? I'm sick of the battles and the guilt.

Every thing I do seems to affect them. My dad snoops around my house and garden and buys me things I haven't asked for, like a cover for my garden bench because he noticed the back is peeling. The back of the bench is against a brick wall, I can't remember the last time I've looked at it. I mentioned to him that I would like a new bike and he's bloody chosen one for me!? Even told DB and his girlf. It's just drivingme mad and I feel like I can't breathe or do/say anything right.

Well done if you've read this far! I think the rant has done me good.

Your mum sounds extremely manipulative and I don't think the situation is petty at all.

Your conversation with her is very similar to ones I would have with my mum. I have recently gone no contact with her as she is incapable of respecting my boundaries.

You mention you are a people pleaser. Is that something that you have learned to be around your parents needs? It's important to remember that you are not responsible for their happiness. (I know this is very difficult if you've been brought up to believe you have.)

Regarding buying you things without asking, practise saying "Thank you, but I do not need this. I'm sure the shop will take it back if you go in with the receipt." Accepting the unwanted gift is allowing them to again push over your boundaries and infantilise you.

In your shoes op I would not talk about anything personal with your parents, it may be better to keep conversation light and away from chatting about your life.

Your parents sound quite toxic, your dm in particular.

Live your life how you want to, your parents happiness is down to them, not you.

You may find the stately homes thread worth a read.

Thanks for reading pocketsaviour and PandorasToyBox. She can be manipulative and it really hurts because I feel like I'm such a terrible daughter. Isn't the stately homes thread for victims of abuse?

OP your mum sounds so very similar to my mum that I have recently diagnosed as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I strongly recommend you look it up and see if there are other traits that she has. The only solution is to go Low COntact or No Contact, and if Low Contact to disengage emotionally and not to share your plans/dreams/ideas etc until they are settled or sorted otherwise she will always be able to shoot them down and tell you you are wrong.

It's so hard not to feel bad and guilty but Pandora is right - you are not responsible for their happiness - they are! Good luck

No its not petty at all and in your overbearing parents you have a serious problem. Ultimately you may well need to be no contact with them. Infact I would seriously consider this, your child does not need such appalling grandparent role models in her life either. They will not act too dissimilarly with her either going forward. Such people do not change.

It's not you, its them. Its not your fault they are like this, you did not make them this way. Their own families of origin did that lot of damage to them. This sort of dysfunction has roots going back many years.

Do your other siblings have any sort of a relationship with them now?. Who is more favoured and why?. Its all very well being advised by your DB to stand up to them more but this is almost impossible when you have been conditioned to put your own self last and you are more available to them. They see you as not capable. You learnt how to be a people pleaser from them.

Your parents are both controlling and you will never get their approval at all. This is something that you still seek from them; many now adult children of such parents still seek approval which their parents never give them. Your mother sounds particularly bad in this respect, her tears were manipulative and designed to suck you right back into the dysfunctional dynamic which they created. They don't want you to move on with your life.

I would suggest you also read and post on the "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread as well as now reading "If you had controlling parents" by Dr Dan Neuharth. You also need to raise your too low boundaries a lot higher with regards to both parents. I would stop calling them as often and keep all calls short without personal information being divulged.

It may also be a good idea now to speak to a therapist about your relationship with your parents. You need to find someone who has NO bias (that is vitally important) about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

I agree with other posters - minimal contact and light social chit chat only is the way to go with this. Also, moving a long way away will help. They will not change, but you can change how you react.

This is what it says at the start of the SH thread you mention:-

"Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth".

There is more but that's the introduction to it.

I think you would fit right into that thread BusyHomemaker.

My sister has stood up to them several times over the past few years to the point where my parents have been round my house after a disagreement to tell me how awful she had been and how they don't thing the relationship can be salvaged (it has been). I had already been given DS version of events and there was a disagreement that occured whilst she was breastfeeding and DM shouted at her and swore and then DF joined in! I told them it was harsh and uncalled for and they argued that Dsis had been incredibly hurtful!? Dsis has had a very up and down relationship with them since her teens and has now established some distance for her own sanity. My parents often moan that she doesn't need them anymore!

DB is moving to Australia in August! DM once told me that DB's girlf was taking him away from her! I reasoned that really was not the case.

The thought of no contact seems extreme and I'm only just beginning to come to terms with the fact that my relationship with my parents is toxic. I know they will never change though.

I will check out the stately homes thread.

*Dsis not DS

I posted on the Stately Home's thread about my mum and sister and was warmly greeted and offered sound advice, and to be honest, your story is similar to mine, if not a bit worse, so please do post if you want to.

You can pop back and post in times of need, or to console others in the same position and you are never made to feel like you are wrong.

It's just so bizarre to think of them as abusive! It was the comparison between my upbringing with my family against my marriage that made me realise things were not the way they should be. My husband was emotionally abusive and incredibly manipulative. It makes me feel so sad to think that my main relationships have been damaging. I worry I will damage my own child.

Thank you so much for your replies.

My Mum is not like this but she can't keep anything to herself she has not sense of things which are personal even when I express tell her not to tell anybody so I don't share anthing with her that I don't want to the whole world to know. This is not your fault but if don't tell her anything she will worry about or be upset by then she can't question her. Or when you do need to tell her something do it at the end of the conversation so you can end the conversation quickly.

I'm the same, I'm 31 and only the last 6 months or so have I slowly realised that my relationship with my mum, which I thought was close and great is actually only that if I do what she wants.

As soon as I assert myself as an adult or challenge her opinion she sort of loses it and shows her true colours.

It's not a nice thing to realise, and like me, I'm sure you will be in denial for a while longer yet. I think people change as they get older, they miss having children that depend on them, they get bored and want too much contact and emotional attention. For my mum, she's been worse since moving abroad and marrying someone she now isn't that fussed about. I felt sorry for her for ages, thinking she must be depressed etc, but it's dawning on me how unhappy it has made me, and despite point blank telling her I can't deal with all this, she just piled on more pressure and emotional crap.. so now I know for sure that she's bitter, manipulative and self centered. Once you see it, you can't un-see it.

roland I could have written your last paragraph, it's my mum to a tee. I also believed we were close and had a great relationship until I relaised it only worked if I did exactly what she thought I should and put her above EVERYONE else at all times. We are now not in contact.

I feel that the fact that you wonder about your own parenting is a very good sign that you are a good mum. It is through our own awareness that we can grow and shape our lives and those of our children in a positive manner.

Op once the scales have fallen there really is no going back (re your parents), you can however give yourself time to work through things, be kind to yourself.

(((hug)))

Thanks Pandora I feel guilty just being on these threads! I do need to figure a few things out with respect to my parents. I suppose it's quite complicated because they haven't been horrible all of the time but they will snap very suddenly if they don't get their own way.

Sorry to the other posters who are going through a similar experience.

Busy I think that you need to shut down the explanations and defensiveness.

for instance
"DM: What will you do about babysitters?
ME: Baby sitters?
DM: Yes, babysitters. I won't be able to babysit if you live in Manchester.
Me: I'm sure I'll make friends.
DM: Well, I'll be too far away. You won't get any time to yourself.
Me: DD's dad will be less than an hour away so her routine won't be disrupted and she'll get to stay with him every other weekend. Anyway, I doubt I'll need or want a babysitter for a while as I will be focusing on helping DD settle into our new area.
DM: Don't mention it to your dad. He'll just worry about you."

instead:
"DM: what will you do about babysitters?
ME: Baby sitters?
DM: Yes, babysitters. I won't be able to babysit if you live in Manchester.
Me: No, of course not. I'll manage that
DM: Well, I'll be too far away. You won't get any time to yourself.
Me: I'm aware of that. As I say, I couldn't expect to rely on you. no further explanation about DD's dad or anything else. Repeat that you will be fine.

DM: Don't mention it to your dad. He'll just worry about you.
ME: He doesn't need to, I'm 33 ... and then move the conversation on to something else."

At a guess, you know the course this will take.

They are living through you atm. Pouring everything into you in a way that is loving but really unhelpful.

You will start to back off a bit - not the whole way, but a bit. They will say Why are you shutting us out? You will say "I'm not, I'm a full adult and simply have more interesting things to talk about with you than stuff that's already arranged". They will know something is changing and will ramp up the intensity. You will need to hold steady. They will start getting angry and shouting and swearing as they did with your sister. You will need to hold steady. Eventually they will accept the new status quo. Unhappily, but they will accept it. As they have more or less done with your sister.

The thing is, you have to go through this process. They won't let you; you have to take your adult independence. You can still be loving and there for them, they will probablly accept that things have changed in the end because they managed to do that with your sister. Then you can have some degree of closeness, but at a much more healthy level.

I'd work on developing some distraction gambits such as, when they start complaining for the 10,000th time about DD or something else, asking about a subject that is close to their heart that isn't child-related. Distract and manage them. it means growing up further in a way - they are your parents, but you will have to accept that you cannot communicate perfectly on every matter with them, and step back a bit mentally.

Good luck.

Stop telling them all the details of your life. That's a start.

Only you can know how they have made you feel. I just want to add 2 things.

1. your marriage sounds like it was a similar dynamic. Of course it was. That is what was modelled to you as a child and what felt normal and ok. You are now realising it isn't.
2. the greatest thing you can do for your kids is model to them a normal, loving relationship. And you can do that, because you are at a point of understanding what that is. Just because it wasn't what was given to you does not stop you being able to do it for your children.

Good luck and best wishes

I really empathise! I have the same problem with my parents.

A book called 'feeling good together' by Dr David burns helped me immensely! I really recommend it!

Great book..Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward. Her advice is find one or two sentences..IM SORRY YOU FEEL LIKE THAT or just something really bland like YOU MAY BE RIGHT but proceed with your own plans. The book is great at helping you see the manipulation for what it is but especially for seeing your own response..really recommend it.Most important don't explain yourself or try to justify your decisions..just one line..bite your tongue from going into explanation as they won't listen and your head will be wrecked.

Thank you all so much for your responses, it's comforting to know that others understand what I'm going through.

Meerka your advice is spot on. I really do want to maintain a close relationship, if possible. So, it really is a case of learning how to manage them and set some clear boundaries. I will read the books that have been recommended.

I ran my first 10K race yesterday and my parents made a special effort to come and support me. I feel that my siblings and I are really lucky that they are willing to do things like that for us.

I could have written your post! I'm a lone parent too. I found I needed to separate out pleasing myself and pleasing my mother. Like yours, my mother is a decent woman and wants the best for me but she doesn't understand that what she thinks is best for me is not the same as what is actually best for me, and my failure was that growing up, I literally couldn't draw a line between pleasing her and identifying what it was I wanted.

I would suggest some idea I might have had and she would say "no, no. I think not" and I'd counter her negativity but all my energies were gone then and I hadn't the balls to risk it knowing that if I failed she'd think 'hmm, i knew that was a bad idea'.

You need to learn to stop running things past her. Stop looking for her approval. Before you make a big decision think about what you want to do. Think it through and then tell her when it's set in stone and then, no matter what the outcome, just live with the outcome. And don't defend any of your decisions! never defend, never justify, never explain! From now on, take the view that you make your own decisions. You don't put them on her table for her to hmm and haw at.

Yes to the poster comedancing in the past, I would defend my decisions or my views. Now I just shrug and say something bland like 'you may be right'.

My x was controllinng and abusive. I do distinguish very clearly between him and my mother though. My mother is basically a kind and decent person who wants to be able to micro manage situations to avoid the catastrophes she worries about. She doesn't want anything bad to happen to me. It's true she has a little less faith in my ability to figure things out than is normal for a mother to her adult daughter but she isn't a bad or a selfish person. I was taking back a present to a shop recently ,to look for an exchange, and my mtoher told me what to say! I am in my 40s and I worked in customer service for years, in sales for a few years, I speak about 4 languages, five if you lower the bar, and she will advise me what to say to get an exchange.

It's bizarre, but I don't see her as abusive.

My x on the other hand, what was unfortunately familiar to me at the beginning of the relationship what that feeling of trying (and failing) to please somebody.

My x wanted me to meet all his needs and he didn't care if I was exhausted and drained. My mother on the other hand believes that if I'd just take all her advice my life would be easier and then I could finally be happy. (I am happy!)