Boundaries/access with ex

[Slashtrophe]

Could do with a bit of advice - thank you in advance.

I have a difficult relationship with my ex partner. He doesn't respect any boundaries I have and will constantly harass me if he possibly can - it was an EA relationship -

We split up over 6 years ago and I have gradually made our arrangements more and more formal as if there is any 'in' for discussion he will be straight onto it and would like to endlessly discuss/change etc. So maintenance is through the CSA because he would say he was paying it and then wouldn't til I'd asked him over and over (he'd forget, or the bank had made a mistake etc etc). Access I now draw up a calendar a year in advance to stop him endlessly changing it.

And now. His latest thing is that he wants to attends all the DCs sporting activities. They are doing a lot of sport so potentially this will be across both days of weekends. On his weekends I generally leave him to it, but on mine he wants to attend all (and chat to me if possible), and he has now volunteered to help with the activities so he will be there all the time. The activities are all male orientated so he will be there with all the other dads. So of our access agreements he will potentially be there on neatly every day they are meant to be with me. He's not aggressive or anything, he's just constantly there which makes me really stressed. This then also gives him an in to text/email me constantly about the activities so I hear from him all the time too (I averaged his contact rate at 17 times a week).

I have said to him that if he can't let me have my time with them alone then either he should have less of his time with them, or I'll have to curtail their activities. Obviously the DC won't want to stop their activities, so that would be tough, and he doesn't want to drop 'his' days.

Any advice would be great. I am so tired of him trying to get back into our lives. I don't want to stop him seeing the DCs but I also don't want to spend all my time with him there. Any discussion of this leads to more reason for him to text/email/call and so 'my' weekend has actually yet again been spent dealing with him rather than spending time with the DC.

sorry no advice but my ex is pretty much the same with my eldest he has alot of activities on his weekend I leave him to it don't see my son from friday until sunday, but on the weekends he's at home he's also there. I feel like I dont get time to be there for my sons activities without him being in the background. I have remarried and had other children so this also makes it especially awkward

It's another 'in' isn't it? I think you have to be very firm and say no to him attending the activities that clash with your weekends. If he was a reasonable man and everything was amicable you'd maybe find a way to manage but, given that he's emotionally abusive and you know this is all another way to manipulate and control, then it's a flat no

Thank you - I have written this email - do you think its reasonable?

Dear Ex - There are clearly big issues with boundaries in the set up we have. You are not respecting my space to spend time with the children - you keep interfering in it and seeking to involve yourself outside of the time that you have with the boys. This has gone from the odd occasion to now every Thursday night and almost every weekend. I understand you want to see them, but you are adversely affecting my time to see them too. You are really damaging any chance there is that we might ever have an amicable relationship.

We have an access agreement written up which very clearly states when the boys are with you, and when they are with me. If you cannot stick to this then we will need to set clear rules as to what happens when you don't.

So, if you are going to volunteer/attend on days or weekends when the boys are with me, then I will be taking back the time in lieu, from weeknights, and from holidays. I will re-do the calendar to reflect this.

In addition, I would ask you not to contact me outside the hours of 8am-8pm unless it is an emergency.

What about your dc? What do they think of having dad as involved as the other boys dads are?

This is not a decision for the children.

I'm assuming that your DCs' sporting activities, even if they are both days of every weekend, are not for more than a couple of hours at a time?

If that's the case I would say fine, let him attend. BUT he is there to watch the DCs not chat to you. If he tries, move away. Keep moving. If necessary use the time they are actually playing to do something else occasionally. He can be there on "your" weekends but not near you. Once the activity is over collect the DCs and take them home, you then have the rest of your time with them.

I suspect that once he realises that this won't be the "in" he was hoping for he will get bored and drop away again. If he chooses to actually help with the activity himself then maybe a quiet word to the organisers about keeping him busy and away from you?

Re your mail. I think you should tell him that he has to stick to the original access agreement and that means he can no longer volunteer or attend on the days that aren't 'his'. Otherwise, if you go with your 'days in lieu' idea I think he will exploit that and create disruption

Keep it simple... back to the original pattern. No extra nights and no volunteering.

How old are your boys?

I didn't say it was the boys 'decision' ergo
I asked op what they thought of dad being around

Cog - I think that might be tricky as he has already volunteered for the weekends, and he's been doing another volunteering position on 'my' night for a while - I think if I start taking his weeknights away he might back off....we don't have a court ordered access agreement so short of taking me to court I don't think he could do much. I've not done it before because I respect his time with the kids, but clearly it doesn't cut both ways

Yambabe - the problem is that if he's going he won't just go and watch quietly - he'll text me endlessly about arrangements/kit - he'll send long emails about how 'everyone' is embarrassed that we don't talk to each other at matches. And if I go to do something else then I never get to watch the matches and chat to the other parents myself. He hasn't given up trying for an in the the 6 years we've been split...

He is the master of if you give him an inch he'll take a mile

It may be tricky but, knowing that these inches turn into miles, I think you have make a stand and risk him backing off out of spite. It's causing you anxiety & you have no idea what gossip/lies he is feeding 'everyone' at the matches. I'm sure the DCs like him being around but this is not their call.

Thank you Cogito (and everyone) I think you're right

I think it's ok for a parent to get involved with their children's sport even if it's not their weekend. It's hardly as though he is taking them out/home afterwards, so hardly an extra day. We used to encourage DSS's mother to come and watch him compete, it actually made our relationship, that was at a difficult point, slightly easier. We even talked to her!! I don't particularly like the woman and I wouldn't say we are friends, but I think SS liked having us all there.

Are they bollocks "embarrassed" that you don't talk to each other! He means he's embarrassed, because he's worried that people might start putting 2 and 2 together as to why you don't want to be anywhere near him.

Don't reply to his emails. And if he slides one tiny bit of 'arrangements' into an otherwise lengthy rant about something else, pick that one part out to reply to, e.g "4pm on Saturday suits me." And hit 'Send.'

I understand your need for boundaries and what he is doing here. Equally though, I have a few friends who are now divorced (although pretty sure no EA history) where they both volunteer at some activities that cut across access times.

The children like having their parents involved and probably wouldn't understand that "daddy can't help at scouts because you sometimes go on a day you're with mummy" or "daddy can only help at football on the days you're with him".

Most of these former couples don't chat or socialise even if they are there at the same time. Everyone knows they aren't together and wouldn't dream of making a big deal of it.

If it really won't work for you, that's fair enough but don't let him make a bigger drama out of it. Are you friendly with one or two other parents Could you explain to them that you find it awkward but it's good for the boys to have him involved - if it is - and ask for a bit of moral support?

He sounds completely awful. I feel very sorry for you.

I'm not sure what to suggest except possibly, that you put it very clearly in writing that you do not see him as anything more than their father, you do not wish to speak to him unless it is an emergency, and as you respect his privacy and time alone with them, you would like to ask him to respect yours in return and please back off.

Don't make threats to take back time from his rostered allowance - it will really complicate things.

Basically people like this think they are getting away with their version of reality, when its just a mad stalkerish fantasy, and they need telling straight that it isn't Ok and how it makes you pretty angry and upset.

Good luck, he sounds a piece of work.

Ignore his texts and emails .

Arrangements for kit etc are none of his business if it's "your" time, you will send whatever the DCs need with them when it's his. Arrangements for waching, well if he is involved then he already knows. If not then either a simple start and finish time text or could the DC themselves nt give him this info rather than it coming from you? If you've been apart 6 years I'm assuming they are not "little" iyswim.

If everyone knows you are separated then nobody else will be embarrassed if you actively avoid him, never mind ignore him, they will understand. He might be, but that's not your problem!

Ignore ignore ignore. Then ignore some more. It'll be hard at first but it'll get easier! And as I said I very much suspect that when he realises it's not going to get him what he wants he will start to drop off anyway. Unless he is genuinely doing this for the DCs, which sounds unlikely from what you have said!

Yes, just stonewall the wretched man. If you are friendly with anyone else at the sporting clubs, you could quietly let them know that he is a saddo who can't get over being dumped and likes to make a pest of himself, so they will have your back. Then email him to the effect that all communication will be via email, you will not speak to him on the phone and have nothing to say to him if you encounter each other at the sports club. If he phones, just hang up on him, don't reply to texts, and if he pesters you at the sports club, turn your back and walk away. If he gets aggressive or causes a disturbance, the club may well ban him...

I would tell him that his arrangements re kit on his days/times are his business. It's also his job to find out what they need from the activity people, especially easy if he's volunteering.

I wouldn't threaten to withhold an activity during your time, but I would only read his e-mails/respond to texts when you feel like it. I would probably send an e-mail like this:

"You are making it exceptionally hard to co-parent with you. Co-parent does not mean that we have to talk all the time, or that we are friends. It does not mean that you text or e-mail me every 5 minutes about things that are not my job to tell you.

Despite my repeated requests to stop, you are continually forcing yourself into my time with the children, to the point it borders on harassment. I do not do this to you and you are being unfair both to me, and to them.

An emergency means injury or death, it does not mean [insert one of his fake emergencies as an example]. Stop using "emergency" as an excuse to force yourself into my time with our children.

It is not "embarrassing" that we don't talk. We are not the first, and will not be the last, parents who are no longer together. If you find it embarrassing stop coming to events on my weekends. I do you that courtesy but you do not do the same for me.

You know when activities are, if you don't, get a calendar or a diary and contact people other than me to figure it out. I am not your wife, I am not your mum. It's not my job to keep your organised.

Nothing should ever be so last minute that it cannot wait until the next time you have the children. Unless it will be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for our children, there is no need to upend their schedule. The kids have a schedule and it works.. when you stick to it!

There is no need for us to have a conversation about the weather. We do not constantly need to talk. If the children have a problem/situation that needs to be dealt with then we will deal with it... this is not a common occurance so there is no need for you to have contacted my [x] times by text message, [x] times by telephone/voicemail and [x] times via e-mail. This is excessive.

For the benefit of the children, and for the sake of us successfully co-parenting... Stop it."

I think you are being unreasonable. They are playing sport so he's hardly intruding on any one on one mother-son time. I bet your children really enjoy having their father there. They are children not possessions, you can't actually split them in two and say, "this is my half, this is yours. I'm not sharing mine with you."

Fair enough he needs telling to stay away from you, there's no need to have any awkward chit chat unless it's about the boys/ co-parenting related. Also there should be a way for him to find out all the timing arrangement on his own rather than via you.

I agree with bum change. I'm afraid YABU. It is not reasonable of you to control access and adjust the access schedule because your children's father is present (because he is volunteering) at their sporting events. He's making a big commitment here - every weekend and one night a week. In situations like this you have to think "could I justify this behaviour to a court" and I don't think you could. It's not in the best interests of your children to tinker around with access. It is unnecessarily controlling and I think a dim view would be taken of your behaviour if you went ahead with this and it subsequently ended up in front of a judge.
I do agree that when you're there you don't need to talk to him and you don't need constant communication with him about these activities in the run up. Just ignore him. Don't respond to any communication with him. This is not going to last forever - your children won't be children forever - you've probably only got a few years of this left (based on the fact that you split 6 years ago).

He wants people to think that he isn't being unreasonable. This is the point. It's continual one-upmanship socially. It's 'I can do this in front of other people and they don't even know how much it pisses you off'.

He thinks he is being very clever.

Actually OP I wonder if the line to take is that of least resistance and let him see where it gets him.

In other words, let him text but don't answer calls unless he has the boys and you aren't present (which could mean an emergency, at a push), the rest of the time, just refuse to engage. Have you tried this? If you have how did he react?

The truth is that there are boundaries and he is crossing them willy nilly. You are not obliged to have him in your home, in your life, in your face - you are only obliged to facilitate the agreed contact with the children.

If you sort of ignore him then maybe he will feel it isn't bothering you, and either up the ante, (I'm not sure how he could) or stop trying so hard to piss you off.

So I wouldn't ask him to stop. I'd just take no notice. See what happens.

It may be awkward temporarily but my guess is the harder you fight, the harder he will try. He's obviously really enjoying it.

Not sure if this will work but I doubt that asking him to stop will have any impact other than to increase his enjoyment.

To those who think that the OP is being unreasonable: no she isn't. She's had years of harassment and aggravation from this man and his intentions are not to support his son, but to continue harassing her as much as possible.

It's like telling a woman she 'shouldn't complain' when a creepy man keeps on giving/sending her chocolates and flowers. Chocolates and flowers are nice when they are a gift from someone you like, or you buy them for yourself, but when they are being thrust at you by someone you have no romantic interest in, they are not desirable or nice but scary.