Mothers' Day with narc MIL - comebacks needed!

[NancyDroop]

So, in our family Mothers' Day involves paying grovelling homage to the superego that is my MIL....

She is a typical narc who hurts with a thousand cuts. When I first met her I was appalled by her comments and told her so - flaming shouty abuse sessions ensued.

I'm now scared to speak up. I often want to reply in the balanced way that I would for any other interaction in my life, but I find that I can't. The words stick in my throat.

For example the MN classic "Did you mean to be so rude!?" is a phrase I would never be able to utter (and MIL would explode, she is always on the lookout for triggers).

So could anyone please suggest some milder comebacks that I could wield to get me through the day?

For info, my DH is very supportive & proactive in setting boundaries. We're pretty low contact now, thank goodness.

Smile and nod, smile and nod.

Not going? She's not your mother.

What would happen if you changed the subject each and every time?

Thank you gin, I do a lot of that, it is generally the best approach. Smil, nod, say "It was lovely to see you all!" then screech out of there not looking back.

I fancy a bit of a foray into the field today though. I want to change the dynamic so my DD 1y doesn't experience her mum as a total pushover. It's my Mothers' Day gift to myself if you will...

Don't engage? Change the subject?

(Have a list of topics from mn, like "did anyone see Jonathan Ross with madge. .. I missed it, wonder if worth watching")

Superego will be annoyed by your non-reacting.

Or you and DH come up with a list of her favourite put downs/comments and play narc bingo? Winner gets dinner made for them?

I have the dreaded "all sets of patents meeting for first time" today so that should be equally fun not

Good luck OP

Narcissistic rage is sheer brute force.

There are no comebacks I can give you and such people anyway are inured to any barbed remarks. The only way forward for you ultimately is to have nothing to do with her.

Low contact often leads to no contact; have you considered actually now being NC with her. It is not possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist in any case. Also such people make for being deplorably bad grandparent figures who either over value or under value the relationship with their grandchild who they also see as narc supply.

You still have a choice, you do not have to visit his mother.

oh what a shame, you've been stuck either sat on the loo or throwing up in it all night. goodness knows what's brought that on. Hopefully it's a dodgy meal you had last night, not a bug, but in case it is a bug, you're staying at home - you'd hate her to get anything this nasty...

If you are so low contact, why does she get the 'big events' of the year? Next year, insist she gets a quick visit from DH on the saturday alone for a brew and give her a card/pressie and then you make other plans for mothering sunday. No reason to go play homage. If she's upset, it doesn't really matter if you aren't there to see it.

Not going is my dream... but there are some nice aunties (though flying monkeys) going and I would like to see them.

Finola, I might try that. I should prepare a list of other topics that are nothing to do with anything "So did you hear Clarkson was suspended?" "Is it raining?"

Plenty of booze

oh just seen your DD is only 1! Mothers day is now about you, not your MIL, tell your DH you don't want to spend your day with his mother. You are the one actively 'mothering' now. You don't have to put her first.

Time to start new family traditions - if she's a narc, I bet he didn't spend Mothers Day of his childhood putting another woman first, but his mother. So you should get the same now. That's his family tradition after all...

I think the first thing you have to ask yourself is: can I change this person? And you really can't. Coming back with the perfect one liner will not change their treatment of you, if anything (in my experience) it just makes you more of a target until you run out of good one liners and places more stress on you to think of the "perfect" thing to say.

So, really your main priority is to protect yourself and protect your children (if they will be present). Decide beforehand what your important boundaries are and do not let her cross them. For everything else, like gin says, agree wholeheartedly with her.

It's very difficult to keep up the momentum of criticism if your victim smiles and says "oh yes, I am aren't I". Just because you've agreed with her doesn't mean you have to change anything about yourself. Your whole job is to get through the next few hours in whatever way makes it the most pleasant for all of you. Give her a gift, try and find something you can genuinely pay her a compliment about. Think of her as a tantrummy toddler where you have to ignore the bad and praise the good. It'll stick in your throat a little, but it'll be easier to survive.

I'm glad your DH is supportive - perhaps tonight plan to get the wine out when MIL is safely out of the way and have a good laugh at all her crazy ways.

Good luck :)

You cannot change the dynamic with a narcissist. It will do your child no favours at all in the long run for her to see you as her parents so utterly disrespected and walked over. Honestly the damage these disordered people can do should never ever be underestimated.

You do not need her approval and you would not have tolerated any of this from a friend. His mother is no different.

Your best mothers day gift to you would be to give yourself permission to go no contact with his mother.

be ill. (Dh does'nt go alone with DD, he stays to look after you)

Next year, plan not to spend it with her.

arrange to see the Aunts some other time.

You also need to give a wide berth to her flying monkeys; these people only act in their own self interest and certainly not in yours. Such flying monkeys too are often used by the narcissist to do their dirty work for them.

Do not engage this bunch under any circumstances; it will come back hard to bite you if you do.

Toddlers grow up; narcissists, on the other hand, apparently spend the rest of their lives in this state of highly volatile ambivalence and uncertainty.

Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehaviour, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves. This is the year, by the way, when children were traditionally thought to reach the age of reason and when first communions (and first confessions) were made.

Having a narcissist for a mother is a lot like living under the supervision of a six-year-old. Narcissists are always pretending, and with a narcissistic mother it's a lot like, "Let's play house. I'll pretend to be the mother and you pretend to be the baby," though, as the baby, you'll be expected to act like a doll (keep smiling, no matter what) and you'll be treated like a doll -- as an inanimate object, as a toy to be manipulated, dressed and undressed, walked around and have words put in your mouth; something that can be broken but not hurt, something that will be dropped and forgotten when when something more interesting comes along.

Luckily my DH and I have walked a long way down this path: we don't seek her approval, we know we can't change her and we know that the best approach is to drop the rope. I am an avid lurker and contributer here on all things narc.

Thank you for your consistent advice Atilla, Rubber, Mary. I would love NC to be the next step. My DH is open to the idea. For the minute though we are playing a sort of happy families though.

MIL knows times have changed but it's not openly acknowkedged.

Comeagain we do informally play bingo

NoArmani - I might be early pg w no 2, so no booze darn it.

I would be tempted to stay away as well. She's not your mum, and you don't have to go.
What would happen if your dh simply told her "Nancy had plans elsewhere" and left it at that? What could she actually do?

I wonder if we all play the same bingo by the way...

• you should move to where I live!
• you should lose weight/try this fad/wear these clothes bla bla bla
• you should play like this and that with your baby or she will never be successful.

Shudder...

I think I will go this time. The PILs spend half the year abroad in warmer climes and she's leaving next week so there will hopefully be no contact until June.

I am getting better at dropping the rope though. I don't reply to texts or calls, which feels great, and I generally try to be in a different room to her when at family events, I don't really talk to her.

So I am disengaging slowly and I love it.

We're going today though to see the aunties who live abroad who haven't seen DD for 6 months.

Just don't go. Why do this to yourself? You can see the nice aunties separately another time.

It's never too late for norovirus to strike you all down, preventing you from being there.

I can't send DH and DD alone as it is an hour's drive and DD is quite demanding in the car. Also I don't want to set up a system of them going alone - I want to monitor all interactions between MIL and DD. I don't underestimate the damage a narc can do to a child.

At 1 month old MIL said we had to dress DD better or she would never marry up I didn't let that one slide...

Atilla the comparison with a six year old is very apt. My MIL shows all the classic traits. She displays all the behaviours you describe.

I think you're right not to let DH and daughter go alone. Thinking more long term than today, the battle will be for and over her, your daughter.

Beyond that, yeah, what other people say, deflect, deflect, deflect. I do think it's good to stand up to steamrollers like this if you can, but really understand if you can't - very much so.

Also practising saying "no, we won't be doing that" in a calm, neutral, non-aggressive way with a small friendly smile. If it's studied neutral it's harder for someone like this totake offence. They can still manage it very easily mind you (someone daring to say no to them!?) but they look even more unreasonable which a lot of them hate. Depends on which variety of poisonous person is darkening your garden.

Good luck, all sounds pretty awful but at least you have the long term game plan to deal with her. Just to repeat, it's vital to protect your daughter from her (Im sure you know already!)

I would actually challenge every nasty comment she comes out with. I have done this with a couple of people in my life, and they now appear to have grudging respect for me as they now know I won't take any nonsense from them (although I know full well they bitch like crazy behind my back!). I found I kept my sanity that way, as I wasn't getting angry about the comments any longer, because I was batting them back. I found it therapeutic, but I imagine it depends on your personality. I have gone NC with a sister as I didn't want my dcs picking up on her snide behaviour.

I hope it goes well today. And you can always develop a headache so you can leave early... Good luck!

"I want to monitor all interactions between MIL and DD. I don't underestimate the damage a narc can do to a child".

By monitoring it all the damage will be done in front of you and it will happen so fast as well you will not be able to prevent it. Also the damage a narcissist can do is insidious and not always noticed or even remarked upon.

A true gift to your DD would be to protect her completely from such malign influences like his mother. She already started on her when she was just 1 month old!. You say that you did not let that slide; what did you do?.

Going this time may prove to be an error of judgment on your part; such behaviour from her should not be at all rewarded.

I would seriously consider going no contact with his mother as of now. There is really no other option.