Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Doesn't want to marry me

62 replies

Moopants · 03/03/2015 21:35

We've been together for over 7 years, lived together six of those and have a five year old. We were planning on trying for another baby at his request. Neither of us are spring chickens. Today I approached the topic of marriage. He's been engaged before in much shorter relationships but he has never approached the subject with me. After years of hoping for a 'surprise' proposal, I finally got the courage to ask what the issue was. I got all the usual lad bible crap. It's just a bit of paper, we're already living together and have a child together so why do we need to etc. I explained why it was important to me and he got angry. Starts shouting and crying, saying that I doubt his feelings for me. He managed to turn it into my problem. Thing is I know how he feels for me and I don't doubt it for a second, I just thought it would be nice to make it all official, to go to the next level. For our child to have parents with the same name (yes I'm old fashioned that way). I don't want a wedding just the marriage. It's not about dresses or parties. I've felt like crap all day. If he loves me so much and if it is only a bit of paper, what's the problem? He can't or won't divulge more than I've explained. He takes my wanting to talk about it as thinking he doesn't love me, when it's the complete opposite. If I thought there were problems I wouldn't be approaching the subject of marriage, I'd be discussing separation. Turns out marriage is the problem. I love him with all I have but can't help feel there's more to his reasons for not wanting to marry me and I don't know what to do. It will niggle away at me in the back of my mind and I'm worried I'll end up resenting him. What should I do? Forget it and move on or move out?

OP posts:

Fairenuff · 03/03/2015 23:26

This is not a stable relationship, don't bring another child into it. He doesn't really have a reason because he just doesn't want to marry you. There is no easy way for him to explain that to you because the honest answer is that he does not want to commit himself to you.

As he can't actually say that too you, he is trying to divert the attention off the subject by using all the dramatics. Bit knobbish but what else can he do, the truth is too hard.

lavenderhoney · 03/03/2015 23:42

It's certainly not just a piece of paper. Before you get more upset go and see a divorce lawyer and talk about how that piece of paper will divide your assets neatly, if things do go wrong and that will leave not much for your child. You cannot see into the future and already he doesn't like the look of it being married to you. Saying that, a marriage doesn't stop anyone leaving if they want to.

The first thing to do is to ensure all your assets etc ARE in trust for your child, and you have appointed trustees to manage this money should anything happen to you. You also need to think about what would happen to your child- and how that would be managed. Obvious if just you passed away your dp would I assume be their f/t carer, but you would need to protect the assets of your DP married etc. if your DP passed away as well, then you need to have a plan in place for your child.

Being marrried does change things. Does your child have his name?

Botanicbaby · 03/03/2015 23:55

"After years of hoping for a 'surprise' proposal, I finally got the courage to ask what the issue was."

There's your problem right there. You've been together 7 years, lived together for 6 and have a 5 year old.

Why have you had to 'finally pluck up the courage' to ask what the issue was? Have you both had a conversation in the past about whether you wanted to be married or not? It sounds like you and he have very different ideas of what it means to each of you. To him, its just a bit of paper and he has been engaged before but not married. Whereas you view it 'as the next level'. There are many people who just do not view marriage in such a way.

You contradict yourself when you say that you know how he feels about you and you don't doubt it for a second yet later you say you can't help feel there is more to his reasons for not wanting to marry you. Maybe he doesn't equate marriage with how much he loves you? Understandably if the reason and importance for getting married is that you want to protect your children from future inheritance issues or if marriage in itself means so much to you that you can walk away from him, then that is up to you.

MeganBacon · 04/03/2015 06:42

There is the question of assets for some, but where that doesnt apply, it is still about validation of the relationship, a declaration to each other that says you have stopped looking for anyone else because you have found your life partner. That declaration does set ground rules about how you will conduct your relationship. Unfortunately it is very hard to compromise on this. I think you need to ignore his worrying response and think about how much his refusal to marry will eat away at you over time and undermine what you have. Some genuinely aren't bothered - you may come to that view. Whlist you're thinking about that, he may reflect (hopefully) on what really bothers him about it and talk to you like an adult about it. But it could be a fundamental deal breaker and heartbreaking for you if you have a lot invested.

BalloonSlayer · 04/03/2015 06:47

If you have another baby refuse to put his name on the birth certificate. If he objects, you could say "Well it's just a bit of paper"

But actually I second the others, don't have another baby.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 04/03/2015 07:20

Moopants

Scottish law on estates when the person is deceased is different to UK law and you need to seek legal advice asap if you have not done so already.

I presume your child has his surname as well. I would get this changed legally if this is the case.

Honestly I would now look into moving on and away from him.

He may want to get married but not to you. He will never marry you because he does not want to commit fully to you. You are also perhaps his "she will do for now" woman in his mind until someone like Angelina Jolie turns up.

He will never commit fully to you and all his words are excuses on the matter. His overreactions to you are extremely telling; he is not the man you thought he was.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/03/2015 07:38

I think you need to engage in some objection handling. The 'piece of paper' argument is pretty trite and it's obviously masking his real objection. Find out what that is, find out what he fears what the 'piece of paper' will change for the worse, and you might get somewhere.

More generally, the scene you painted sounds all wrong. Can you normally air differences of opinion maturely and reach a compromise? Is 'shouting and crying' his normal reaction if he isn't getting his own way?

Nolim · 04/03/2015 07:50

My understanding is that in case of death married couples have more protection than non married ones.

Regarding your name you can change it any time. May i ask why marriage is more than a piece of paper to you? I am not trying to be mean, just trying to find an argument you can discuss with him.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/03/2015 07:57

The main 'protection' married couples have in the event of death is that the value of the estate is not subject to inheritance tax for the surviving spouse. There is an assumed next of kin status (UK) but married couples are still advised to make specific wills in each other's favour.

Spickle · 04/03/2015 08:10

A stab in the dark maybe, but, has your DP ever been married before, even if it was a long time ago? Did they actually divorce? I ask because I knew someone who had been "single" for nearly 20 years, only for subsequent partners to discover eventually that he couldn't marry again because he was still married to his first wife which suited him very well, especially as he owed his ex wife money which he would have had to pay on divorce.

BathtimeFunkster · 04/03/2015 08:12

He a manipulative shite, isn't he?

Don't put yourself through a pregnancy, birth, and fourth trimester at his request.

Fuck him. It turns out you two don't do things to make each other happy.

And should you decide you want to bring another child into thus relationship (really don't, though) definitely, definitely give this one your surname.

It is not "old fashioned" for an unmarried mother to giver her baby it's father's name.

pocketsaviour · 04/03/2015 15:33

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if your DP has any kind of social anxieties or phobias, such as might be triggered by the thought of a wedding?

Frankly a wedding is my idea of HELL, especially as the bride "on display" all day. I had a very quiet wedding with my H, less than 20 guests all of whom were close friends and family, and I was STILL terrified. I can hardly remember anything about the day.

Just thought I'd throw that thought out there in case it might ring a bell? If that's the problem, of course you can just do the whole marriage but no ceremony thing...

shovetheholly · 04/03/2015 16:40

I was about to ask the same question! Could this be about the wedding and not the marriage? I can think of an awful lot of reasons not to have a wedding (money, family politics, anxiety) but few not to get married in your situation.

KingOfTheBongo · 11/03/2015 08:30

I am with Pocketsaviour, especially since previous engagements led to the end of the relationship. If he is otherwise a good guy, it is probably specific to this subject.

Lydiand · 11/03/2015 09:03

Spickle asked what I was thinking. Is there any chance that he is already married? His reaction is rather extreme, considering he has nothing to lose by marrying you.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/03/2015 09:20

" he has nothing to lose by marrying you."

A selfish man would think he had everything to lose. Not by marrying per se but the prospect of a divorce in which this wife would 'take him for every penny'... let's call it the Heather Mills Paradigm. :)

SensationalGirl · 11/03/2015 09:25

Marriage isn't just a piece of paper. It certainly wasn't for us. Our relationship changed after we married, changed in a good way. We felt more solid, connected and committed to each other in a way I wasn't expecting at all. If I'd known that would have happened I'd have married years before.

And that declaration we made in front of all our family and friends felt awesome. We'd already had kids and a mortgage together but there was something so comforting to know he still wanted to marry me after 5 years together and all that.

The way he acted when you brought up the subject is a big red flag. Crying because it's so unfair you want to marry him? WTF? No wonder you're posting on here, do you cry, laugh, smash his head in? He's trapped you now, if you insist on marriage he will forever say you forced him and he didn't really want it, if you leave he was right you didn't believe he loved you, so you have no choice but to to keep things as they are just to prove you really do love him. He's turned it back on you, making you defend yourself, classic manipulation tactic.

YOU are now stuck having to prove you still love him and you do that by keeping your mouth shut on the subject of marriage FOREVER!

Lydiand · 11/03/2015 09:30

Cog OP is the one with assets.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/03/2015 09:31

Ah.... missed that part.

rosepetalsoup · 11/03/2015 10:23

I think it does keep you together. (Until it doesn't, iyswim).

Anyway, he's being a shit to you. I'd put my foot down, and don't have another child unless you realise there is a possibility of him leaving.

Twinklestein · 11/03/2015 10:40

It's a difficult one because if you're the one with assets, it's partially in your interests not to be married if he's not fully committed and likely to bugger off. Although if you want to make sure all your assets go to your child you do need to set that up legally.

Personally, I would refuse point blank to have another child with someone who won't marry marry you.

rosepetalsoup · 11/03/2015 10:49

You can still get married and then set up some of the assets in trust for your child(ren).

Dowser · 11/03/2015 11:45

I also wondered if he's not divorced.

I was shocked to find out that a guy we meet up with on holiday ( we tend to go to the same place) was not single. Yes, he had a wife in a different country and they weren't together and they weren't divorced.

Might not be the case, but we MNetters are good at thinking outside the box.

His reaction was OTT. I was married to a crying/ tantrum raiser. Really blind sides you doesnt it?

Jackieharris · 11/03/2015 11:59

If you're the one with the money don't get married!

If you die he will get your estate. If he then goes onto marry someone else and or have more DCs then they will inheritate from him even though a good chunk of that was your money! (Scots law)

Have you considered having a non legally binding blessing instead?

Dowser · 11/03/2015 20:33

Jackie....is scotslaw different to English law. If you marry and leave a will, surely the woman can leave the money to who she likes....a cats home even.

Under English law if you marry and don't leave a will then it goes to the spouse..

Leave a will and you can leave it to your husband and children.

Flip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread