Having a "private life" in a marriage

[brightnearly]

Hello everyone,

I've just inadvertently found out that DH is being friends with exes and female co-workers - and has never told me anything about these friendships. There is nothing to suggest that anything sexual went on, but I'm still a bit thrown that he has never said a word! I presumed that he had to stay late at work, when in fact he had drinks and a chat with a friend.

I don't like that! I feel it erodes trust. Am I overreacting? Too insecure? Not sure if I can say anything, as this info was not at all meant for me to be seen.

I wouldn't stand for it. If he wants that life he should have stayed single. Nothing wrong with going out for a drink after work with a group of friends. Something wrong IMHO with always going out with one particular friend of the opposite sex. And something wrong with keeping everything a secret.

I think it's fine for him to be friends with his exes. To hide it - not so much.

I would not, however, jump to the conclusion that he's definitely cheating. He may be, but it is also possible that he's simply trying not to upset you. Don't get me wrong - he's gone about it totally the wrong way, and he should have shared this information with you as you sound eminently sane and not liable to throw a possessive hissy fit. However, if past partners have been rather more hysterical than you are, it could be this is learned behaviour that he needs to snap out of!

Oh gosh, I'm drip-feeding - apologies!

I think I am a bit inquisitive, because during the time we were dating, we weren't exclusive - which I wasn't aware of, and which he thought was ok because exclusivity was never discussed. Finding out about this gave me quite a shock. It left me wondering on what basis he finally decided to have a proper relationship with me.

Ah, OP, that's quite a misunderstanding to get over.

I think you can only do it if you feel like there's really the commitment there now. And that means a culture of openness between you - including phones! I know other people disagree and insist that there should be 'private space' in a relationship, but I think the way that this is often gone about asks for trouble. Trust, to me, is a practice of openness whereby everything is exposed to your partner so that if there is any uncertainty over appropriacy it can be discussed straight away. It's not a kind of religious faith! Just my personal view, though

"we weren't exclusive - which I wasn't aware of,"

Sorry but I think he's carrying on exactly as he started. He's untrustworthy.

lottie What you're saying about compartmentalisation is very interesting; maybe all this is a deeply ingrained habit then...

Cogito It doesn't look as if he was carrying on as before - also, since we're married, there couldn't be such a misunderstanding - , there was nothing explicit, just some banter. There was a sprinkling of adult humour, but I doubt that that means he's getting it on in a broom cupboard.

I'm more concerned with the psychological aspect of it. If he was 'compartmentalising' out of habit - would it be worth it raising this as an issue, would it be possible for him to change, or should I just let him get on with it and just trust him (and take the risk that he might be tempted)?

Btw he does tell me when he's socialising with male colleagues or friends.

He doesn't have a great track record for openness, does he?

I think you have to raise it with him. It's just going to bother you until your bought it out into the open. If he's nothing to hide, I can't see why it would be a problem to him either. On the other hand, if he does have a problem with you discussing it with him, perhaps that would show you do have something to worry about.

Either way, it is something that is bothering you, and not unreasonably since it would also bother lots of other people too. So it needs discussing.

"There was a sprinkling of adult humour, but I doubt that that means he's getting it on in a broom cupboard. "

Adult humour... you mean 'flirting'? Are you OK with him flirting with women who he keeps secret from you? Goes for drinks with? If he's flirting via text what's he saying to their face?

There may or may not be any broom cupboards involved but you appear unduly trusting.

Cogito I probably used the wrong term; it's not explicit remarks but, for example, relating how he got chatted up which stroked his ego maybe I am a tiny, tiny bit naive here

As for what else might have been going on - well, no, I'm not ok with it really. I am not at all an open relationship/polyamorous person - again, nothing might have happened - but it's the basic trust, and also the fact that during dating we didn't share the same reality that bothers me quite a bit.

It doesn't sit right at all.

So when did you become exclusive?

How long have you been married for?

Exclusive - about 6 years ago - married for 4 years. Known each other for 8 years.

If think I would speak to him and tell him about your concerns and how you feel ....see how he reacts

I've no problems having friends of the opposite sex or my DH doing so now I'm secure in myself, but would have felt threatened years ago

However, there's not that much that happens in a day that doesn't make meeting up with friends a topic for discussion as part of the 'how was your day?' chat.

For that reason I'd say an ongoing relationship with others where it doesn't come up in conversation is lying by omission and I'd soon start to feel insecure again.

I have no problems with DH leading a life and having friends, it's important! I want him to live fully, and be himself - but I feel sad that apparently I'm not deemed worthy of getting the whole picture, and I don't like that in a marriage context.

So are you going to talk to him about it?

What you're calling compartmentalising is coming across more as concealment, or a kind of 'need to know' attitude.

For example: not being exclusive during dating, yet you not realising it, and him suggesting it didn't matter because you hadn't explicitly discussed it.

• Offering a different personality for friends and family (ok, we are all somewhat different in different contexts, but this is enough for you to remark on).

• Making the past a no go area. 'No go' sounds as if there's some defensiveness about it. And if the past is nothing and doesn't matter,why is he maintaining relationships with exes, in secret?

• telling you about drinks with male co workers and not female ones.

It is insulting to be lied to, and you are being lied to 'by omission'. That's what I mean about him carrying on in the same way he started. He appears to operate on the basis that if you don't ask the right question he won't volunteer the information. For your part you don't think you're entitled to ask the questions. Do you see how that becomes fertile ground for deception?

Strange that he will happily tell you about male friends and drinks with them.

If there were old texts on his phone that were not important he could have just said 'oh delete them please'.

He is deliberately hiding stuff from you for some reason.

Have you ever brought up a issue with him having female friends.

Does known each other for 8 years means you were unaware for 2 years you were not exclusive? That seems a pretty long time.

Also if he is still friends with and meeting ex girlfriends for drinks they are not in the past. It may not be romantic but they are still in the present.

What cog says about lying by omission seems a good point.

Well, we have talked about friendships with the opposite sex. I don't think that is a problem per se, but, as someone said upthread, it needs to be out in the open.

With regard to exclusivity: We lived quite far from each other back then, sometimes even in different countries, so there was no way of me knowing what he was actually up to; and I didn't want to hector him. I thought if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.
However, things were going on even when we were talking every day, visting each other regularly and going on holiday - I only found out later (also by chance!), and it doesn't sit well. He does not want to discuss, he says it makes him feel bad, and that none of that was going on any more since we married. But does a leopard...?

However, what is bothering me most is that lack of shared reality. So, for example, going on holiday with him was a genuine part of my life, I lived these times fully and sincerely, the feelings were sincere - I was not pretending, going through some motions, living a different reality to my actual self (sorry, waffle).
But I feel as if he was - as if he was "playing at" being a romantic couple on holiday, but his reality is somewhere else, and despite 4 years of marriage, still hidden from me. He seems to be playing at being a husband, being a father.

He spent two years at the start of your relationship seeing other women and forgetting to mention to you that you were not exclusive?

Hmmm. Have you thought that he didn't tell you so that you could see other people?

How on earth did he persuade you it was anything other than cheating? Presumably he said nothing about meeting up with these people?

At what point did he tell you? Was it when you found out about someone?

When did he tell you he loved you? If not before, that should certainly be the point when exclusivity was implied.

Maybe he did that so that I could see other people. He did not really ever tell me as such "I love you" (oh dear), but used different wording...

The problem is: we are married! The reason why all that relationship history matters is because I have doubts (reinforced by my discovery) about the foundation of that marriage. He proposed - I simply assumed, unaware of the goings-on, that the relationship had matured naturally to reach this point and I was quite in love.

I feel for you. Your H sounds like my ex in a lot of ways, particularly this segmentation thing. I won't go on about mine, because it turned out he was very weird and I'm liable to project!

I tried very hard to be happy with the part of him I was married to. We both had extraordinarily busy lives - and no children - so it wasn't as if I was crying alone on the sofa every night. When we did things together, they went well. On paper, it looked like a well-balanced relationship.

But ... I was living with a stranger. I once said to friends that I felt we were like flatmates, and I know they assumed our sex life had gone down the pan (far from it!) What I meant was that we weren't emotionally involved, at least not as fully as I expect in an exclusive relationship. I offered that degree of involvement - as PPs have said above, trust comes with openness. He demanded trust without that: blind trust, basically. And blind trust is foolish.

I'm sorry he's been lying to you all this time.

Did you ever talk about what marriage means to the pair of you? In hindsight, I should have pushed a hell of a lot harder on that point, rather than letting him wriggle out of it.

That is very interesting, Gallic. I have actually (in dark moments of despair, there were quite a few when the children were very little) asked him why he married me. But then he just goes all out and claims that there is love - but I feel like he's just covering his behind.