FIL coming from overseas when baby less than a month old. Expecting to stay for close to a month. Help?!

[Frugal15]

I posted about this a few months ago. I was anxious because FIL was making noises about coming to stay from overseas around the time when our baby is due/very small. And I just didn't want visitors, even family, actually staying with us with a newborn. We already have four kids between us and life is full-on without looking after a new baby and a house guest too.

I wanted to hang out in my PJs, establish breastfeeding, skip make-up, get over any baby blues, sleep whenever I can, etc, until I felt ready to be presentable to the world. Plus I'm naturally introverted and private, and don't want the world and his wife over anyway after baby's arrival and want some significant quiet time; even without baby in the frame, I'm of the any-house-guests-stink-after-three-days philosophy.

In the end we emailed FIL to say, very nicely, to hang fire with making any arrangements and let us consider when would be the best time for a visit. DP also spoke to him and said due to limited space, he'd probably have to stay elsewhere and visit in the day (this would at least take the pressure off us to be on top hosting form when least feeling like it). FIL seemed to get it and DP left things at, "I'll speak to Frugal15 and we'll get back to you."

Fast forward to now and I'm overdue and booked for an induction this week. Meanwhile FIL got on and booked flights anyway and will be arriving at the end of this month. Now, he and one of his other grandchildren (aged 10) will be coming. They'll be here for close to four weeks, not two (as he'd originally suggested). And when we've asked him what his budget is for accommodation so we can look at options locally (initial plans to stay with relatives locally haven't worked out), he's said he doesn't have one as he's already overspent. He's suggesting we put a tent up in the garden if we can't fit them in the house.

So, baby will now be arriving within the next five or so days, and we're now looking at DP spending his paternity leave buying and building a bunk bed, shunting furniture around, and making space to squeeze nine people into all four corners of the house, so that FIL and one of his other grandchildren can stay for nearly a month from when the baby is less than a month old. AIBU to find this an horrendous prospect?!

While they're here, I'll feel like I need to keep the fridge well-stocked and the place tidy, get dressed every day, stay up when I want to nap, cook, be on form conversationally when I've had an absolute fucking fill of small talk, have the telly on for baby's cousin when I want peace and quiet ... argh! Is there anything we can do? I don't want to seem unwelcome, and I don't want to offend FIL by telling him to bugger off. Of course they want to meet this new grandchild/cousin. But every day and night for a month is too much - way more than your typical, more thoughtful couple-of-hours-pop-in (not possible with the distance, obviously).

I feel that FIL has forced our hand and I'm bloody pissed off that any plans we might have had for how we'd spend baby's first few months, and how I might take care of myself once DP is back at work and - importantly - try to prevent PND (I had it mildly with my first DC years ago), have been completely overwritten. DP is fuming and currently stomping about the house swearing, threatening to give FIL an earful and tell him to cancel his trip. I'm saying hold fire with that until I've got some advice ... anyone?!

Hi op it's difficult when you have family hallways across the world. I think let him come over but just insist he stays elsewhere and only comes round when DH is there.

Just be honest and say you won't be able to cope and don't want to resent his visit, and have to set boundaries to ensure you and baby get off to a good start together.

Let your husband say absolutely not! There is no way I would have this - it's a surefire way to end up depressed. Put your foot down with a big HELL NO right now!!

"I don't think I have the heart to tell him to cancel, and I don't want DP to. They have a good relationship, his dad lives a very long way away (we're talking opposite side of the world), and I think a firm instruction to cancel could damage that relationship. But I think, given how much of an imposition and stress it would be for us - as you all agree - that DP could insist his dad organise accommodation elsewhere and that that is non-negotiable. Also that on the days DP and his kids aren't around, they go off and do their sightseeing to give me and baby some peace. Could that work? Any other ideas for a compromise?"

Let DP deal with his dad and tell this man no.

The above would simply be used by someone like your FIL, who has no consideration for others and sounds bloody awful frankly, against you. The ones who will end up miserable, perhaps out of pocket and resentful here is your own family unit.

No to arranging alternative accommodation for him; his father created this mess (and his son and you did not utter a flat no to begin with) so he needs solely to sort it out. Your only mistake here was to be too accommodating and nice in the first place because someone like his dad will take full advantage and indeed has done. Fundamentally nice people are simply not self centered and thoughtless either like his dad is. He is NOT a nice person at all.

His dad would have turned up anyway at the time he wanted to no matter what you said and did. Its about what he wants, any concerns you have and expressed are really of no concern and consequence to him.

Wow tough situation. You sound like such a considerate person, please try to make sure you're considerate of yourself too.

IMO the only way this has a chance of happening is if your husband is completely open with his dad, explaining he'd love to see him but being clear about your surprise with his decision to double the length if visit and the guest list without telling you. He needs to (gently but firmly) point out how hard it will be with a newborn and so why he needs to look for other accommodation as it isn't workable to stay at yours as you've already said.

I think the problem here is not being completely up front with the FIL, tell him he's welcome, but be very firm (no room for misinterpretation) around the conditions under which he's welcome (ie not at your house and not being entertained by you).

Frugal - your comment about your FIL's lack of emotional intelligence and sensitivity about your feelings really rings bells with me - this is exactly what my FIL is like.

To give you an example - last summer, when he came to visit, my MIL was terminally ill (she died at the beginning of December). They were divorced, so no-one was expecting him to be rending his clothes over the situation, but his son, my dh, was about to lose his beloved mother to cancer - a hard thing for anyone to cope with.

Almost the first thing FIL said when he got into the house was how lucky he is that he still has his health, and has never been seriously ill - he said this to dh, who found this comment incredibly hurtful and insensitive. He didn't say anything to his dad, although he was absolutely furious - but he told me about the comment and how upset he was by it - and I took FIL aside and read him the riot act.

I can understand why you don't want to tell your FIL not to come - but it would be perfectly reasonable, imo, for your dh to tell him that he can only come for the 2 week stay previously discussed, and that 4 weeks is far too long - unless he is planning to take himself and the grandchild he's bringing away for 2 of those weeks (and will be making the arrangements and paying for that holiday within a holiday himself, of course). You and your dh would be absolutely within your rights to tell him that he needs to sort out and pay for accomodation for himself and the grandchild when he is staying near you - because you cannot accomodate him at your house. I think your dh needs to explain to his dad why you want peace, quiet and NO house guests in the early weeks of your new baby's life. He needs to point out that guests mean a lot of work, and that it is unacceptable of him to expect this of you and your dh when you have such a new baby!

And when he comes, you and your dh need to sit him down and tell him how rude and inconsiderate it is to book a lengthy stay with anyone, without consulting them - tbh, it is rude to book your tickets for any length of stay without asking your hosts if it is convenient first!

Putting aside that he shouldn't have booked and he certainly shouldn't be bringing an additional grandchild into the situation, I think it's time to start thinking practically as you've made it clear that you don't feel you can simply turn him away now. I sympathise massively as someone whose in laws have a habit of turning up from overseas for at least a month at a time. And it sounds like my dh and yours are similar - he's supportive and does try to tell them but doesn't want to cause WW3 by making them cancel once booked. I get that, I really do.

So here are some of my top tips for coping:

1. Absolutely do not feel obliged to act "the host". If MIL is going to move into my house for a month, which she does, I take the view that she has to be just one of the family. So if we're not really eating that day, she can either cook her own meal, or join us for beans on toast.

1. Be absolutely ruthless about doing what you want to do - I wander up to my room, turn on the tv downstairs, read my book whenever I feel like it. I feel absolutely no need to "entertain" someone who has in effect moved in.

1. Ask for help. And be specific, "Please can you empty the dishwasher?" "I'm about to BF, can you please make me a cup of tea." etc. Similarly, if, as I suspect your FIL is saying, he's said he's here specifically to see baby etc, ask him outright to do things like hold the baby for half an hour while you shower, dress and generally pull yourself together. Or even, if you can see you will need help in two days time because you have something to do, ask him to ensure he's available to take in the grocery delivery/ be here for the plumber or whatever.

1. Ignore any snide comments aimed at you and/or DH. Leave DH to handle those but take the moral high ground and refuse to let them bother you. Similarly do not, under any circumstances, change your behaviour, attitude or approach as a result of said comments. Even the nicest PILs can't help these kind of comments sometimes and it is not worth fighting about.

1. In the case of the extra grandchild, he/she can probably also be pressed into service. But DH needs to make it clear to FIL that he/she is his responsibility to entertain and spend time with . You are not going to be finding suitably 10-year old things to do while simultaneously trying to get on top of things with a newborn.

1. If something specific really starts to get you down, discuss it with DH and ask him to handle. I had one or two things that really wound me up last time and because I wasn't whining and ranting all the time I was able to have a very sensible conversation with DH who then spoke with MIL. Admittedly, it landed up with an argument between him and her, but he didn't hold that against me at all!

1. Finally, like with anyone living (not visiting) in your house, dont' feel the need to always be polite. If the kitchen is a bit messy and you're irritated about it, don't play the saint and just get on with tidying it up. If you'd normally shout out to whoever messed it up that it needs to tidyied, then do that now too. Even if the person you now have to shout out to is FIL.

Good luck!

He is simply thoughtless in this respect - low emotional intelligence when it comes to thinking about us ... It will simply not have occurred to him

Trouble is, these traits which led him to double the time/number coming will also prevent him taking on board anything said beforehand, as well as making things impossible during the visit. You can probably forget any idea of him helping out for a start, and he'll expect you to do everything as an alternative just won't occur to him

There doesn't seem much point insisting on him paying for accommodation - he's said he can't and to him that's probably that. So if you're not prepared to say an outright no, I'd think there are only 3 choices:

Insist that he postpones and comes later
Tell him to change his return ticket and stay only two weeks
Say the 10 year old definitely can't come as well, and mean it

Are there seven of you already in the house?! Five children and two adults?

Is FiL retired? What do the parents of the other child have to say, can you not talk to them and explain the situation?

I'm not for a moment saying that FIL coming isn't an almighty pita but are you sure he will require you to host him very intensely? Might he be planning to use your home as a base and visit other family etc for most of the time he is there? If you truly think he does intend to stop at yours and be waited on, then you'll have to make it very clear from the outset that your hands are full. However, most cultures, even very patriarchal ones, accept that new mothers need time to recover from birth so it's unlikely that he'll be on your case all day

" DP is fuming and currently stomping about the house swearing, threatening to give FIL an earful and tell him to cancel his trip. "
I'm with your DP on this, and nothing you've posted since your OP has changed my mind. Softly softly does not work with this man, an earful is what it will take. And it needn't damage the relationship between DP and FIL, if it does then FIL is more of an arse than you think.

I'm another whose FIL turned up to stay with us for a month after our eldest was born (we lived in the US at the time). He is a decent man, but totally self centred & expects to be waited on & the visit was horrendous. It caused so many arguments between me & my DH as he didn't want to admit how selfish his dad was, but after he left & things calmed down, DH was very apologetic & never asks if his dad can come to stay with us (we're back in the UK now but he lives 3hrs away & does come to this area but stays with other friends).

Lesson unfortunately learnt all round as things haven't been quite the same since. [Fine for me though as no one expects him to stay here but I do feel for DH as he saw first hand the selfishness & was hurt by it.]

Don't stop your DH. Your FIL is being very unreasonable and selfish. Let your DH tell him now that he is not staying/camping with you (because you know they won't be camping out right?) and certainly not found a month and not with another child in tow. He can come for a couple of weeks, alone and stay elsewhere.

He is majorly taking the piss. And you really shouldn't be stopping your DH from telling him. His relationship with his father is not your concern.

When I recall my mental state after the birth of my DD, the idea of having my in-laws hanging around for a month = bloodbath.

I already resented their visits at the hospital (as I was feeling very fragile and blue, and just wanted to hide) so having them around full-time for 30 days, no way!
My in-laws are genuinely lovely and thoughtfull people, but I was just not well enough at the time for extended "in-law time".

Best of luck with this tough situation!

Absolutely let your h year a strip off your FIL. Countless times we are here women being treated like shit, run roughshod over by Inlaws and the h sits by wringing his hands.

Your FIL is being inconsiderate to come for so long, despite being told clearly it to, and brining a sodding 10 yr old is just the icing on the cake.

A big fat no to them both, they cancel the trip, today. The rest is NOT your problem, it's theirs for booking not in the first place when they were told not to.

Gaaah why do people not listen when people say what's manageable for them and what isn't!

How about your husband talkign to him and not so much getting angry as explaining in absolutely crystal clear but civil tones that the immediate time after a woman has given birth is NOT the time to have a man and 10 year old child she isn't familiar with in the house. His tone of voice can make it clear this this is Not Done.

Then he can say firmly that you had laid this out with him previoiusly and it is unfortunate that he has now booked the tickets but he cannot stay. That he can visit but he MUST check first. He cannot simply turn up. You don't do that to a new mother.

I actually think it's more constructive to simply lay down the law like this than to go in all guns blazing.

If he starts getting offended and huffing then point out agin that you had told him what was possible and what wasn't, and that YOUR needs are the most important. You don't need stress at the moment and the family doesn't want to be put into the position where you can't welcome him even for a visit - despite him ignoring what you have already clearly said once.

My god this gives me the rage. Why do people seem to completely forget decent manners and respect when a baby is born?!?!?! The baby will still be here in a couple of months when things have settled down a bit, or won't it be as 'special' then?!

I point blank refused to be pushed around when I had dd. People only came over when I said it was ok, and when they did I didn't run around after them, and I didn't just hand dd over if I didn't want to. Best decisions I have ever made. Those first weeks are about the parents bonding with baby, there is plenty of time for everyone else!

Have you spoken to DH's sibling (i.e. The parent of the grandchild) - they may join you in putting pressure on FIL to make some sensible arrangements, particularly if he has already told them that Frugal is happy with this arrangement.