Looking for advice on how to deal with my in laws

[Namaah123]

I generally get on with my in laws but they have very different idea's of what is acceptable which ends up causing alot of friction between me and my husband. Thankfully the live a long way away so we dont see them often but i hate that i dread them visiting or us visiting them and i want things to improve. The problem however is my husband does not want to say anything to his inlaws about our feelings and bounderies. He also doesn't want me to say anything to them either, so far i have mostly managed to hold back but now i am really stuggling.

The latest issue is the amount of presents my kids get (from almost everyone in both my family and his). I have 4 young children (1yo, 2yo, 2yo, 3yo) and this christmas (not including gifts from "santa") they got 389 toy presents between them all, they also recieved over 200 other presents like stickers and sweets and clothes. I cannot cope with the constant flow of stuff into my house. I donate bags of stuff almost weekly and it is still building up.

I typed up a very polite email saying that although i was very grateful for having so many caring family members we are all stuggling to find space and time to enjoy anything in our house. I asked if everyone who gives present to my child could limit it to 1 physical present and if they wish to give more then they can put money in the childs trust funds or buy memberships to places for them or if they had any other suggestions i would probably be fine with it. I sent this as a group email to 19 people (mostly my family) and the response was great from my side of the family, they just hadn't stopped to think about how much stuff we already have and they came up with some great alternative gifts but from my husbands side of the family they have taken a huge offense to it.

My sister in Law immediatly phoned my husband screaming down the phone about how i was singleing her out and telling her that her presents weren't good enough and she wont have me picking out her presents for her. I never mentioned anything about specific people or specific gifts or even dictated what they buy. The closest i came to it was i said if anyone if struggling for an idea then they are welcome to message me and i will let them know what the kids are into. Anyways my sister in laws gifts while too many are normally pretty good for the kids compared to alot of the other crap they get. My husband would not let me speak to her to explain what i ment and told me he would appologise to her for me....i dont even know why i am supposed to be appologising

My Mother in law emailed back offended by the full thing and saying, again , that i was singleing her out. And that she will buy the kids whatever she wants because it shows them that she cares about them and kids love getting presents. And again he wouldn't let me message her back with the message i already typed and offered to let him read and edit before i sent saying that i wasn't trying to offend her and i sent it to 13 of my own family members aswell and that we dont physically have stuff to put everything in our house and that although the kids like getting presents they are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of them and i end up feeling like i am forcing my protesting children to sit down and open their next batch of presents every birthday and christmas because there is too many. My husband instead phoned her and told her I didn't mean to send it to her and that she can buy extra presents to make up for the less they are getting.

My husband completely agrees with me about the too much stuff situation and wishes everyone would stop buying so much stuff but he doesn't want to risk upsetting his family.

It might not sound like a huge issue but it is only 1 of many other issues that he will gloss over

e.g.
everytime they visit they will not spend time with the kids, they expect the kids to do what they want to do. Instead of my idea of telling them we will go to their thing on tuesday and then take the kids to xyz on wednesday he thinks we should just go along with it as they dont see us everyday

my father in law thinks that his wife and kids and me and my kids should sit quietly at a restraunt table for 3 hours before dinner so that him and my husband can drink and talk. This was one thing i did put my foot down at after the first few times of trying to amuse hungry and bored babies in a busy restraunt for hours. but my husband told them it was because we cant get the kids to behave in a restraunt that we dont eat out with them anymore which annoyed me and they behave just fine when we go out. every time they come up his father gets the huff because we wont go out for a meal with them which turns into an arguement between me and my husband as he thinks i should just go and put up with it as that is the way his father is.

and too many more issue to bore you all with

As i said i have got to the point where i dread seeing them and the kids are miserable most of the time because they are bored/cold/tired/hungry because they will not make allowences for what the kids need. Me and my husband are arguing more and more over his parents and it is putting a huge strain on our relationship. I dont expect them to change every single thing or to change over night but if we just keep on keeping quiet and smooting things over then it will never get any better

Enough's enough. There's a time for trying to be everyone's favourite DIL and this is not one of those times.

My suggestion is that you stick to your guns, upset them as much as is necessary to be taken seriously and ignore your weak husband's ideas of appeasement. This is your family, your children, your rules.... I think you're going to have to confront them in order to put them back in their box. If your SIL has a problem with you, tell her to talk to you directly - not doing the 'he said, she said' crap with DH. If they take the hump and blank you as a result of being assertive .... you've killed two birds with one stone.

Make them dread you a little.... works for me.

You have two problems here; his family and your DH.

Your DH here is as much of a problem as his family of origin is, he needs to realise that his inertia re his family is simply hurting him as well as his own family unit as well. He needs to be told that his appeasement, apologising to and no action towards his family is completely unacceptable and that you will not tolerate this from them any longer. If he will not act (and he probably will not due to their inbuilt conditioning of him) you need to and now as well. He is very much in FOG - fear, obligation, guilt with regards to his parents and this is also playing a huge role here in his inertia as well. He cannot and equally will not deal with this, presumably he just wants you all to get along so he does not have to deal with his difficult family.

SIL has been used her as the winged monkey by them; she can and should be ignored by you anyway. Her views are irrelevant as well as rude, its nothing to do with her anyway.

Am not altogether surprised where you are at the point where you dread seeing them. Actually you still have a choice here; you do not have to see them at all and your children could be spared also all their emotional manipulation as well.

His family sound really unpleasant and demanding; are these really the people that you at all want to see let along expose your own children to?. They are basically buying their grandchildrens affections; buying presents does not equal loving them more. Also they are receiving far too much and at least you're getting rid of the excess. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

These people are not going to change; if anything your ILs will get worse as your children become older and start to express their own opinions. Your ILs could well end up having and choosing their own favourite grandchild leaving the others out in the cold.

I would suggest you read Toxic Inlaws written by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics here because all this is really about power and control.

Your H's lack of boundaries with his family is not going to change anytime soon, so bypass him and tell them what's what directly. However, be prepared for your H to be highly resistant and resort to bullying you into adopting his preferred line of appeasement.

As nightmarish as his family sound, your primary problem is with your H, as the impact of his families behahaviour would be limited if appeasement wasn't his go to way of dealing with them.

YEs, your main problem is your total wimp of a DH. He agrees with you in secret but then when talking to his family puts all the 'blame' on you to protect his own back. Pathetic.

If he won't man up, fine, accept the situation won't change. Put most of the gifts in bin bags, give the bin bags to him, let him keep going to the charity shop with them.

I feel sorry for your kids too. Presents and gifts must be completely ruined for them by now, no anticipation, no excitement, no real pleasure. You'll have to work really hard to stop them getting spoilt, too.

Over 300 presents is ridiculous.

Firstly if you ever need to email again sign it off as dh. Or let him type and send it. It is his family and he should be dealing with them.

Expecting young children to stay in a restaurant for three hours is ridiculous. I would let your dh take the dc on his own next time.

See it this way if there was a problem with your family you would deal with it so let dh deal with his family.

Btw I'm not sure I could let the present thing go. It needs addressing.

Your DH is being a complete arse. Apologising for you?! "He won't let me"? Why are you being a doormat?

Your ILs are being completely unreasonable. You HAVE to address this otherwise you're going to stress yourself sick. If your DH isn't up to it, then you have to. Tell him either he says what needs to be said, or you will. End of.

And as for your DH making up shit to please his father like "we don't take the kids out for meals" just out him on it. Respond with "yes we do, and they're always fine".

The presents have to stop, that is just beyond ridiculous. Has too much time passed for you to address SIL and MIL on that email? I should have been made clear that it was a group email, lots sent to your family. Tell your MIL you send lots of stuff to charity. Send her a photo of the play room!

When visiting them, have you thought about hiring a cottage? Your FIL and DH can go to the pub for as long as they want. You can make sure you've got food in the house for the kids etc.

You have to woman-up to your DH and tell him he has to either man-up and deal with the situation, or you will.

Thanks everyone, i dont have a problem with standing up to him but I have always worried about how much i should cut him out and deal with his family myself but you have all reasured me, yes this is my family and yes i do have a right to fix it if he wont.

His family are very controlling and have awful views as to how kids should be raised. they kicked my husband out and refused to speak to him and fell out with half their family for nearly 2 years when his auntie let him live with her. This was all over a minor issue, short story - he wanted to do different subjects at school than the ones they had picked. He needed certain subject for the college course he wanted to go to but they didn't agree with his choice. He is worried all this will happen again which is where his behaviour with them comes from. I dont even know why he bothers with them to be honest

The presents situation has just gotten insane, everyone seems to be of the opinion that 20 pound shop toys are much better than 1 £20 toy and it drives me insane. then they also regularly buy the kids 4 of each toy (1 for each kid). Sharing has always been something i feel very strongly about encouraging in my children and i have regualy told them that i do not need 4 of each toy so that the "kids wont argue over them" but they never listen. It does make cutting down the presents alot easier though as normally about 50% of them are just duplicates.

I did put at the start of the email that i was sending this to everyone who gives my kids presents but it is like they just pick out certain parts to read. I had saved the email i was going to send to my MIL and sent it today, I explained the points she was upset about but firmly stated that she has to stick to 1 present or change her gifts to non material things like memberships and money in their trust funds and hopefully she listens, if not atleast some charity shop will still benifit from a huge bag of unopened toys

I'll also be sitting down with my husband tonight and telling him enough is enough and he either has to support me when i deal with them or do it properly himself. Hopefully it goes well

In the past i have only put my foot down and dealt with them when it has put my kids in harms way but you are right, I shouldn't have to put up with family making us miserable. It doesn't matter much to me at this point if they are in our lifes, it is my husband that cares about it so he will either have to deal with the situation or accept the fall out

That book looks insteresting, i will get it, thanks

I think you're doing the right thing. If you want to engage your husband I suggest one route is to emphasise that 'his family' is now you, him and the DCs.... not him, Mum, Dad and siblings. That's where the priorities lie.

"I dont even know why he bothers with them to be honest"

He may still bother with them at all because he may on some level hope even now that they will change and or say sorry. Also he still wants their approval even now as an adult, approval they will not give him. He is very much in a fear, obligation and guilt states with regards to his family of origin. I would also state that their controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour and they have been like this for many years. He has to realise that his inertia when it comes to his family is not only hurting his own family unit but his own self too.

I second the plan of getting your DH to deal with the presents.

Dump them all in his car, and let him drive continually to the charity shop!

i've just bought an ebook version of that book and i'm reading it now. Hopefully it helps me find a way to actually talk to him about it other than argue about it.

My husband has alot of emotional problems that have been caused by them and it has been a slow process of dealing with them but things have gotten alot better but he still doesn't see them as being the reason for it. And there is alot of problems that he still has. He is constantly seeking approval for things. He constantly feels guilty for no reason to the point where i have to say things like "it's not about anything bad but can i talk to you about the kids, it's not anything you have done wrong" and he still turns on the guilty little kid attitude and looks miserable. And he will spend hours second guessing most descisions he makes in relation to his parents. I am fairly certain that the majority of these issues all come from his parents. I hate watching them shoot him down over and over just because they can. I sometimes wish we could just cut them off and move on but I could never force him to choose like that between them and us. The only other option I can think of is to somehow make things better with them.

I have tried (very unsucessfully) a few times to suggest he sees a therapist but he is against the idea

What you're describing is someone with low self-esteem, anxious to please, fearful of causing offence, conflict-averse. Is he the same in other aspects of his life? Is he 'backward at coming forward' as my gran would have put it more generally - job, friendships, etc - or is it only when dealing with family?

Well done OP. Hope all goes well. Do let us know if you get a dreadful response from the MIL!

If they come to visit again i would literally stick to your routine. You have 4 under 4 - they outnumber FIL and MIL. If FIL and MIL want to visit your family, they get the family you've got. If that means toddler group in the morning, they are welcome to come and give you a hand with that. Trips out need to be the things you want to do with your kids - if they want to do something else they can but there is no need to drag 4 kids along! If you end up feeding them spag bol or fishfingers - fine. Knock "hosting" on the head - family need to fit in with you.

That seems easier to fix than the present thing. Could you flog them before the kids see them and then put the money in a bank account for your kids? At that age kids need space, not 100 toys each for 4 kids close in age! Could you return the presents to the ILs? I don't think I could but my inlaws haven't bought nearly 400 presents into my home!
At the very least you are sorted for birthday and xmas presents for other people kids from your stash!

People like this will only read/ hear what they want, then decide in their own mind how to interpret it. I have inlaws like that.
One thing to do is always make sure you are crystal clear with what you're saying so that there's no way they can misinterpret what you're saying to them. Away with polite and flowery language, only clarity (whilst being nice, obviously).

It's really not ok for your husband to cower behind you and leave you to deal with his awful family. The book is very helpful in explaining what's happening and why , but if your husband won't step up none of the boundaries you put in place will work. You will simply be the bad guy and your husband will secretly agree that your the bad guy. You might eventually have to go no contact and leave your husband to deal with them on his own.

I've been in exactly the same scenario with exactly the same sort of husband you describe. It's deep stuff and the people pleasing / failure to assert himself will cause no end of problems.

Personally I would make it a condition of continuing the marriage that he seeks some sort of therapy.

It is mainly to do with dealing with his family. He has to phone them almost everyday to try and get a grain of approval from them over the most mundane things. they are never overly positive about anything but when they are not condesending or negative about it he is elated about it and is like a kid in a candy store for the next few hours. stuff like that just really bugs me, this might sound horrible but it does seem quite pathetic and i dont want him to feel like his achievements are only as valuable as his parent think they are. ( I have never told him i find it pathetic or anything though as i think this would only make the situation worse) and even stuff that has nothing to do with them like what car we buy is based,in his mind, on what his parents are most likely to approve of and he will phone them asking their oppinions multiple times a day when we are buying a new car. Which is silly because we dont have alot of money and all our cars have been atleast 5 years old and they do not approve of anything second hand for any reason so they will never approve anyways.

This does however spill out into stuff between me and him like if he hoovers he asks multiple times if he done it ok and am i happy with it etc, i always try to let him know i'm happy about it but after the second time of confirming it i end up feeling like i'm talking to a little kid telling him that yes he was a good boy and can get to go play now. I also worry that i'm somehow encouraging this need for approval by giving him the approval he is looking for. Or if he buys himself something he'll bring it home and ask me a few times if it was ok he spent £6 on whatever. I'll normally always tell him "of course it was, as long as it's reasonable he doesn't need to ask me for permission". I even sat down once and we made a list of things that we need to both agree on (stuff like furniture, cars, anything expensive etc) but he will still ask over a book or tshirt

In general though he has what i would say is a normal level of confidance though and is ok with telling me when i have done something to upset him or just in general day to day life. I do notice a huge drop in his confidance after his parents are particularly negative and thats when more of the approval from me behaviour starts for a day or 2. and since he phones them most days this happens pretty regularly

It is nowhere near as noticable in his life with me compared to how he is with his parents and not really notiable at all with stuff like work and friends

Does he hold down a job? Does he have responsibilities at work? How does he manage to achieve anything if he's constantly double-checking?

The presents thing didn't bother me as much when they were babies because they weren't opening the gifts themselves other than to grab at the paper occasionaly, i'd pick out the ones that suited them best and sell/donate/gift the rest. But now thats they are older and they are expected to open the gifts in front of the gifter it's not as easy to do. It is also the amount they are now recieving, i just dont have the time and physical space to sort through them any more. It is so bad that i actually have a list of charity shops in my area and follow it to make sure i rotate the stuff between them as i would literally overwhelm each shop with donations. I used to sell alot of them and but the money into their trust funds but again it takes so much more time and space to do it that i just end up donating bags so i can make a pathway to my bed etc. The gifts have also gotten worse each year instead of the 4 ok toys i used to get for them from someone i now get 20 toys that cost £1-£2 that just isn't practical to sell.

I have never though about sending the gifts back to people but i dont think i could anyways. I have however been tempted by the idea of doing the same to them. Last christmas they couldn't visit around christmas and sent up a box of presents that was so big i could fit in the box with room to spare and i'm not some skinny little woman. I had a 6week old baby at the time with the three other kids and i was so angry by the crap i had to sort out that i was so tempted to go fill the box back up with crap gifts for them and send it back. To give you an idea of the size his mum was on the phone laughing to my husband about how she had to search for ages to find a courier that would take a box of that size

"he will phone them asking their oppinions multiple times a day when we are buying a new car. "

Can you knock this kind of thing on the head, do you think? Buying a new (to you) car is entirely a decision between you and him. Including other people in that decision to the point of getting their approval is going behind your back. It's insulting. Do you point that out to him? Do you get angry?

he has a job and actually has a fair bit of responsibilty in it , he doesn't seem to have a problem with being confidant with strangers, co-workers etc. It's people he is close to that he struggles with, mainly his parents but sometimes me or other close family members

He doesn't hide it from me that he is phoning them but yes it does make me angry, we have had many arguments about it or similar situations. I dont care what they think, infact i often deliberatly flaunt the fact that we buy things they dont approve of just to prove to them i dont care. Like last time we saw them his mum told me that she liked my daughers dress, i said yes it's really cute and only cost 50p froma car boot sale, i get most of their clothes second hand because then I can get them really nice clothes to wear everyday instead of having to worry about keeping "good" clothes. She walked off looking angry while i secretly had a huge grin in my head. They buy almost everything from primark and think we should aswell so we can afford to buy everything new. I dont mean to sound like a snob, there is nothing wrong with primark but when i can get better clothes for cheaper than primark prices why shouldn't I

The present thing can be a problem. I remember standing in our garden with my DD whilst he made nasty comments about how much stuff the DCs had - I just went round the plastic mountain saying 'you bought this, mum that, uncle x this, so and so that'. We were being criticised for being excessive when we hadn't bought any of it.

Our DCs were the first on both sides and every Xmas and birthday all 4 GPs would buy as if they were the parents - mountains and mountains of stuff. In the end I asked them all just to buy one gift. It did not go down well, and of course they ignored me, but they did cut back enough to stop it being such a huge problem.
So lots of sympathy - but no solution to offer you...

DD - dad - sorry

It seems that at the moment he's not functioning emotionally at an adult level. He's acting like a little boy and for whatever reason is embracing that role.. He seems to have put you in the role of mummy with his approval seeking from you. It's incredibly unhealthy and will most likely eventually kill any attraction you have for him.

If he acts like a little boy with his parents they will obviously treat him like one. You've also got children watching dad act like this. I would be clear with him that these things are incredibly unhealthy and need to change.