Dh is completely delusional about our relationship and how it was and telling everyone this 'break' has come out of the blue

[Saturn123]

Dh and I split up in December 2012. He lives in the same town as me but in a rented apartment. I have been trying to get divorced from him for 2 years but have yet to manage to agree anything because he is being so difficult. It has cost me over £15k in legal fees and I have had to pay some of his otherwise he has refused to see lawyers.

It is an absolute disaster and the stress is killing me. I have a full time, high powered job in the city, I have 2 teenagers I am desperately trying to parent through this and an ex husband who won't co-operate.

I saw one of our old joint friends last week who said to me that dh is telling everyone that this split came out of the blue. For years, and I mean years, I had been telling him how unhappy I was. I had sat at the dinner table in floods of tears trying to get through to him. By the time we split up, I wasn't even sleeping in the same bed. Even to my face, and the lawyers and anyone who will listen, dh is telling them that there was no sign our relationship was unhappy and he is completely faultless and I am obviously deranged.

What is really hurting me is that in my past, i suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a relative. Eventually, in my 30s, I went to the police and they dealt with the matter. It didn't go to trial but the person responsible lost their job (which was with children). He has since died. I had to go to counselling afterwards which I found hugely beneficial. All of this coincided with our relationship breaking down but WAS NOT the reason for it. Dh has decided in his head that I am 'damaged' goods and this is why we are not still together.

I am finding everything so hard. I am tired. Work is so busy, I just had a week off but I'm only 2 days back in and I have so much to do. The kids aren't easy at the ages they are and I love them dearly and they are being fantastic at home but it's tough doing everything by yourself. My lawyer is great, he sees what dh is like and says he is the most frustrating ex-dh he has ever dealt with but none of this is solving anything any quicker.

It is likely, as I have stayed in the house and have a good job, that I will have to raise an additional mortgage to buy dh out of the house. I begged him to settle this quickly as I am in my 40s and don't want a mortgage when I am ancient but he won't do it. I will have to forgo my share in his pension (I don't have one as I was going to share his as it was so much better than mine) so I will have to start again to save for my retirement with a huge mortgage. He still won't budge.

I am seeing him tonight but am already dreading it. We are meeting to discuss the settlement but I have not much hope of reaching an agreement. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get through his thick skull once and for all?

You're not going to get him to stop seeing himself as the hard-done-by victim, so I don't think that is a realistic objective. If this is how he's choosing to cope with the break-up - by rewriting the story - there's not a lot you can do about it. If he's never taken problems in the relationship seriously and preferred to call you a crazy woman, he's not going to change tack now.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure your joint friends have not taken his tale of woe on face value. Everyone who has been indirectly involved in someone else's divorce knows to keep an open mind and will attribute a lot of what's said to bitterness. The exception being close relatives who tend to naturally side with their own DNA regardless.

You don't have to see him if you don't want to and if you don't think you're going to get anything positive out of it. Maybe postpone the meeting?

That is completely par for the course.

But you don't need to "get through his thick skull once and for all"

Tell him that he can think what he likes.

mean it

Seriously, don't waste your time trying to rein in his martyrdom. You've left him so he can sit there marinating in his martyrdom. Leave him to it.

Is there anybody at all who could sit with you when you meet tonight?

Or meet in a public place where he can't start talking you down too forcefully?

It doesn't matter what he is saying about it. You know your truth and you must have unwavering confidence in that.

As for the divorce, it's just ridiculous how difficult it is to get out of a marriage, I do empthasise completey having just done it myself. But you sound like you are doing every thing you can - try and rest the responsibility on your lawyer to push it forward. You can't do everything and this will happen eventually.

You sound like you are doing great.

Why do you have to see him? Surely his lawyer should be dealing with your lawyer?

Is there anything that can be done via court if someone is dragging their heels?

Thanks so much everyone

I am more concerned that he just won't agree to anything for the divorce. You are right LadyBlahBlah, I can't believe how difficult it is to get out of a marriage. All I want is for this clean break to go through so I can take on this ridiculous mortgage and start again.

My life is totally on hold financially till I can sort this out so for 2 years I've been in financial limbo. Anything I save in the interim, he gets 50% of so there's no justification for me to save (and no reason for it) but I cannot continue like this. I am mid/late 40s and need to start saving for my retirement. He insists he isn't doing this deliberately but it wouldn't surprise me if he was. ARGH.

His lawyers asked for £300k. Mine thought we should settle at £200k so we decided to offer them £250k to just settle it quickly and be done with it. Now they are umming and ahhing and saying they might want to revalue some of the assets etc. when all the valuations have taken place. As you can see, it is a shitload of money and a massive mortgage to take on at my age but if it has to be done, and it is what both lawyers agree to get a clean break, then I will do it but I just can't have it carrying on being delayed as I don't think I can carry on earning at the rate I am at for more than another few years.

I just want him to agree to something so that I can get on with my life. My lawyer has said that after this meeting he will call every day but ultimately, if he doesn't agree this time, it has to go to court and the lawyer estimates this will cost me at least £150k given how dh argues with everything and what his lawyers are like and in the end, the settlement is likely to be around the £250k mark anyway. So that will mean I still end up paying the £250k and I end up paying the court fees/legal fees too!

should also point out I am not perhaps as well off as that sounds it's just that we live in London and the house that we bought for around £200k in 2001 is now worth over £700k so the whole asset settlement is based on me buying him out of a portion of the house (less his pension assets that he will keep and a few other minor things).

The other option is that I sell the house but I can't do that anyway at the moment as it's held jointly by me and him but that would be an option if it went to court to avoid me having to take on a huge amount of debt but the kids don't really want to move and they are settled in schools so I'm unlikely to try and do that

if it went to court, I would have to take on an additional mortgage to pay the fees as I don't have enough for them and the bank has said it is then getting to the limit of what I could borrow

the whole thing is just winding me up something rotten....

should also point out that right after we split up, dh left his job and took another which pays him around 2/3rds of what his old job did. Though he is totally entitled to do that, it has also meant the settlement is higher as I now outearn him.

It just all seems so calculating yet there is nothing I can do to make this go any quicker!

I must admit, I feel a lot better getting my frustration out on here :)

Mine was like this - I ended up going to court just so that the clock started and there was an end point in sight. I represented myself but lost a lot of money. Just couldn't afford what ExH was doing in terms of procrastinating/lawyers.

He also said he 'didn't see it coming' when I walked out - despite us being in marital counselling four times because of his anger issues and him propositioning my best mate.

What he didn't see coming was ME finally standing up for myself.

I think you'll be surprised - and he'll take the £250K and you might have it sown up very soon.

Stay strong.

This may be unhelpful but I ended up getting divorce lawyers in the west country and travelling down to see them - I just used them for advice as I was representing myself but also for the final stages. They were a LOT less money than lawyers in other parts of the country (i.e. London) and I mostly dealt with them via email.

thanks teapot that sounds very similar. I think the fact that I finally did it has surprised him (and a lot of people). I'm a quiet sort, not that I'm not confident but I'm easy going to the point that I like a quiet life and he probably just thought I would never do this.

let's hope so ladyblahblah, I have my fingers crossed!

Remind him that, if he really loves his children, he'll stop pissing about; every extra grand you have to spend on lawyers is resource then unavailable to his/your children (a holiday now, savings for university fees, deposit on a flat, inheritance in due course).

Not sure if that conveyed what I'd meant!

Bottom line: If he dicks you around, it's ultimately his children he's hurting.

yes I agree somethingonce and this is something I have said. Ultimately, I want to be putting money aside for the children to say help with university perhaps if they go there! But at the moment I can't do anything till this is settled (then once it is, most of my money will go to the mortgage but I don't mind that if it settles this once and for all!)

But why should you be the only person to bear the court costs? That sounds incredibly unfair. He is costing you money just by delaying you - won't a court make him pay for that?

As far as saving now, can't you sort something out with your mum or someone trustworthy so that they save it for you?

It's the unfairness of it that's so frustrating, isn't it? And why should you pay him more because he's chosen to take on a lower paid job, when he doesn't have full care of the children?

unfortunately I am quickly learning how unfair divorce is :(

when we were married, we earned about the same. In fact, I started off earning less but over the period, towards the last few years of the divorce, I earned more than him (not substantially more but a bit).

i paid all the childcare, I paid part of the mortgage and I paid most of the bills. We had a full time nanny who cost the same as the mortgage. He paid a bit of the mortgage (and paid for it all when I was on maternity leave).

Although this gets taken into account as 'factors' in the divorce settlement, what they are interested in is the position right now.

Right now, he earns less than me. He also rented himself a house that is far bigger than ours which he can't afford but has claimed he required something that size as he couldn't get anything smaller at the time. This wasn't true when we split up but of course, it is now true as the rental market is far worse than it was 2 years ago.

His lawyers are recommending he claims spousal maintenance from me. I have refused this (as have my lawyers) because even though he earns less than me, the reason he is short of cash, is because his spending is totally unrealistic. I have asked for a clean break which means he gets a lump sum from me then no claim on me for future earnings. I've done this as I know he won't reign in his spending but also to protect myself against any future claims from him.

He won't pay his legal fees. He won't even pay me child maintenance. I could force him to but at the moment, there is no point as it would put him further into debt which I am jointly responsible for until we are fully divorced.

It's a terrible position to be in and I would not wish the divorce process on anyone tbh! But especially financially independent women who marry irresponsible financial men because you are penalised dreadfully!

But he can't say he won't pay his legal fees! What would happen if you said that, too? Do his lawyers know he has no intention of paying them?

Spousal maintenance when you have full care of the children and he is working? If he wanted more money, why the hell did he change jobs for a lower paid job?

God, this makes me absolutely furious!

Imperial I expect there is some deprivation of assets thing same as if you need to go into a rest home.
ie OP will need to declare her salary and where it goes so it will be obvious if she is giving money to her Mum and the court will take a dim view. I think/hope you have to be a lot smarter than that!
however same should apply to her husband voluntarily taking a lower paid job just after.

However lets be honest OP you have considerable more assets than the majority of people in the UK and your ex must have too if his pension was so large, although of course I also expect you feel entitled to keep the money you earn and not want to have to hand it over to him. I would feel the same.

I hate to say tho but would it not just be cheaper to offer the full 300 and just get rid of him? Can you do that and keep the house? or work out where you want to live when the kids move out and sell up and buy that now. Nice flat in the centre have any appeal?

(I really do hate to say that honest)

And of course you should be getting child maintenance off him! Even if you stuck it in the bank to help pay for the divorce, you should claim it off him.

If he's a spendthrift, that should be quite easy to prove, shouldn't it?

Married people aren't responsible for individual debts the other has, just to be clear on that point.

It does sound like a very stressful situation.

What was his response when you told him that he is indirectly disadvantaging his DC?

Sorry to go on, but it drives me nuts how many men seem not to grasp this concept when they use divorce proceedings as a stick to beat their wives.

I actually really don't get why you have to offer him spousal maintenance, he voluntarily took a lower paid job, your dcs presumably don't need a home carer?, he has a house and earns money to buy what he needs surely it is his problem if he spends too much.
(and he has a pension to look forward to)

Please assure us all of your finances are separate now, ie you have separate accounts etc. Is he still paying towards the mortgage? If not, did you have it valued in 2012 when you split up?

It sounds hideous and you sound like you're doing everything you can.

Just a thought. What is the reason he's dicking around so much about the divorce, do you think? Is it for his financial gain (e.g. increased house value over time)? Or is it because he gets something else from it - e.g. engagement with/responses from you/feels he has some power left over you?

If it's the latter and he's really headed for the full court process then maybe one strategy will be to tell him that a) the divorce is happening whether he prevaricates or not, but the prevarication is just costing you both money b) this is your last attempt at mediation. After this offer, all communication about anything other than child contact is to be through a lawyer only. And stop having any contact with him other than arrangements to see the children.

You could also let him know he's playing with fire as far as his future relationship with his children is likely to go. You'll protect them now but as they grow up they'll see how his behaviour is all about him and not them and he will pay for that in how they choose to relate to him and that will be nothing to do with you. This has happened in my sister in law's family. She's never said a bad word about her ex to the kids - they split when the kids ranged between 12 and 7. The kids are now aged 23-18 and none of them have any time or high regard for their father.

Is it a possibility that work could give you a well timed secondment? I'm just wondering if there's any way to temporarily reduce your earnings in a way that won't hurt you longer term...